superpig, bushpig grand ambitions

So time to try to get some opinion, among other rifles I have an A7 sako in 30 06 with a 19 inch barrel and a hardy suppressor. Now initially I was a bit grumpy with the TM guy who sold it to me as he hid fact that the barrel had been chopped. However I now value the short length as its handy to carry and not too vicious, I've been shooting factory hornady 180 ssts at 2650 fps, which I thought you may say is a bit slow, (had limited access to a chrono for a day).
If It was seen as worthwhile Id like a carbon stock for the A7 and maybe some load work on another projectile dependent on the advise I get here. Alternatively if the 06 is not idea ill try getting a short action something built.

Question 1: Is this projectile considered good on deer at ranges 10 feet to 600? (seems to work ok up close but haven't shot anything at range yet)
2: What bullet would you advise if you think there is an obvious advantage?
3.Given the velocity of the 180gr what would said (likely lighter) projectile achieve and how much advantage is this?
4.In the opinion of you guys with 284s and 7mmsamu etc. is it worth me pursuing this or should I be re-chambering.

Thanks in advance, I know from what I've read there are fair few clever members on here who have asked many kgs of gunpowder the same sort of questions I'm asking and this will save me a lot of time making mistakes myself.

Just use it mate, ask questions like that on here and everyone will come along with their opinion about how the caliber they have is the best bla bla bla and by the end of it all you will be more unsure than ever and still no better informed. A 180 SST doing 2650 has plenty of snot way out there. Reload for it if you want but theres no need to go overthinking things and caliber-hopping all over the show.


PS: 270 cal is the new black :)

2650 fps in a 30 06 and a 180 gr bullet is pretty good, usually get around the 2700 fps mark. With a 19 inch barrel I would be happy with that. A good SST or the 178 ELD X would be suitable from up close to 600 yards. If you are looking at longer range shooting then a bullet with a high BC will suit your needs better.

When I had a 30/06 I used 165gr Nosler ballistic tips at about 2650fps for deer in the bush and out to about 200ish yards ( this was well before rangefinders and chronographs ). I used 130gr Speer hollow points for goats.
For a bush pig load I'd try a 130gr TTSX. If you wanted to reach 600yds then the 168gr or 178gr amax/ eldm would be the ones to try. I don't think you will get one projectile to get from point blank to 600yds.

A quick run through my ballistic app says that load has 1000pounds to about 700yards which is heaps. Where it falls short is impact velocity which drops to 2000fps at around 400yards meaning expansion at extended ranges may not be ideal. I would say a reload with something like the 178 ELDX would be a good all round combo for your rifle. We would need someone with a 3006 and 19”
barrel to let you know what sort of speeds to expect for a reload in this weight range?

The advantage of the 7mm is with sleeker high bc bullets they retain their velocity better in these short setups and you can generally get better ballistic performance for less recoil etc. That being said, your 3006 with a good load will likely do what you want just fine with less mucking around.

1 Yes...but your muzzle velocity is marginal at best for +400y
2 perhaps a handload/custom load in the 165-180gr range of sst/eldm.
3 a lighter projectile will provide a slightly flatter trajectory at short ranges and a lot more shock/trauma but be less effective at longer ranges.
4 What do you want to do with it hunting wise? you could drive a 110-130gr TTSX pretty fast and be very effective 0-350y.....you could run the eldm or sst or berger if you wanted to reach out but realistically you now have a 308 at best balisictly speaking....hand-loading could definitely improve it tho.

3006 is designed to punch .30cal at a higher velocity than .308 buy burning more powder. With a 19” barrel at that velocity... your just a heavy .308 IMO.

(Personally) I would put a longer barrel on with a faster twist if you wanted more out of a 3006 chamber.

For ref; I get 2770fps out of my 7mm08 in a 19” barrel with 140gr BT. Good out to 300 easy.

Another option could be to try a 155gr? It’s a good deer killer projectile in .308. Give it some more legs (powder), you might get the desired boom flop @ the 600 mark. Couldn’t guarantee it though.

HK


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Great to get responses like this so quick, if I wanted to be reliable at 600yrds would I re-barrel this to say 284? on the long action or do I sell and build on short action. If I'm going to try and lighten things up and buy a carbon stock etc. then I may as well get it right for what I want. 600 yards is a realistic max for what id ever use.

I would do some reloads with the 178eldm - not the eldx
Get them going 2650-2700 and you will easy have enough grunt to 600y aslong as you have the skill to place the proj in the right spot
If there going 2700fps you will have 1021ft-lbs at 750y and impact velocity of 1608fps
So if you limit to 600 your sweet

The numbers stack up, you've just got to have to skill to go with it. 500y is plenty for me these days

Even with those factory rounds the numbers still stack up at 600y
Don't fuck around rebarrelling - been there done that got the drained bank account to go with it. If you want more boom sell yours and buy a new 7mm R.E.M. Mag or 300 win mag

Biggest thing is practise

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Originally Posted by cas

Great to get responses like this so quick, if I wanted to be reliable at 600yrds would I re-barrel this to say 284? on the long action or do I sell and build on short action. If I'm going to try and lighten things up and buy a carbon stock etc. then I may as well get it right for what I want. 600 yards is a realistic max for what id ever use.

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Originally Posted by Smiddy

I would do some reloads with the 178eldm - not the eldx
Get them going 2650-2700 and you will easy have enough grunt to 600y aslong as you have the skill to place the proj in the right spot
If there going 2700fps you will have 1021ft-lbs at 750y and impact velocity of 1608fps
So if you limit to 600 your sweet

The numbers stack up, you've just got to have to skill to go with it. 500y is plenty for me these days


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I agree with Smiddy to an extent....what you have could do it with the right load but in the context of the highlighted text I think not.

if I wanted to be reliable at 600yrds Even the best shot/wind speaker is not "reliable" at 600y.....that is BIG magnum and lots of practice to be "reliable" not dirty old six or 284 country.

I had a sako 75 in 30-06 and was contemplating the same sort of things as yourself.

I sold it, went with a 7mm saum and I’m very happy I did.


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Originally Posted by veitnamcam

I agree with Smiddy to an extent....what you have could do it with the right load but in the context of the highlighted text I think not.

if I wanted to be reliable at 600yrds Even the best shot/wind speaker is not "reliable" at 600y.....that is BIG magnum and lots of practice to be "reliable" not dirty old six or 284 country.

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On a side note, remember your 1st shot hit on the 300y gong with .303 subsonic open sights, resting on your lap fuck that was impressive


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Originally Posted by Smiddy

On a side note, remember your 1st shot hit on the 300y gong with .303 subsonic open sights, resting on your lap fuck that was impressive


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Trade up now to 303brit :thumbsup:

A 19" 3006 has better potential than a 19" 308. You've got a hammer. Use it.

284 has a fatter and shorter case than the 3006 so you would need to work on feed issues if you change. Changing cartridge is an expensive exercise. Better to get a new rifle.

To repeat advice of Vietnam and others: 300m is a long way. Once you can get 4 kills from 5 shots there, you could move out to 400m. Beyond that there are a heap of factors against you (and the animal). By lots of gong practice, you will know when you are reliable and ready. A real magnum like 338LM or 7mmSTW will improve your odds considerably at 600m. WSMs SAUMs and belted magnums will go part way but not to "reliable at 600m". However no cartridge will substitute for experience.

30-06 has a the same amount of powder as the 284 and a bullet 0.6mm bigger. The fuddy will do the job fine. Stoke some 180s up and keep it to 4-500y and you will have a great weapon.

Practice is key. I will be doing a bit of range shooting out between 500-700m when my 284 gets back home. Mates mate shot a red stag @ 907yds with his 30-06 and I doubt that barrel is much longer than yours looking at pics of the rifle. As the guys said load some ELDMs and give them a whirl.

Ryan was correct, you will have been offered enough advice by now to be confused

When you chronograph your load I think its really really important to validate the velocity with a drop test if you anticipate using the rifle on game past a couple of hundred metres. If you want a reliable rifle out to 600m, I'd drop test at 300m and 500m.

Chronographs are usually pretty close, but they can also be out by a fair bit. I've used two in the last 4-5 years, one expensive, one cheap, and both were prone to bad days and pretty ordinary performance. Some will say you've gotta get a posh chrono, which usually means spending gazzillions, but it only costs 5-10 rounds to get a validated velocity from a drop test.

So case in point, I took my .308 into the field the last couple of weeks, new load, shortened barrel, so a few changes. Chrono velocity was a fair lower than I expected. Hmm. Shot 5 onto paper at 300m, measured the average drop from the point of aim, and using the trajectory validation tool in Strelok it corrected velocity to a number a bit higher than what I expected from the load data, and quite a lot higher than the chrono average.

Went up the hill, and happily bowled goats out to 360m+. Once I was convinced the data was spot on, I took one final goat with the .308 at 500m exactly, holding right on the top of the reticle post. Smack, tumble, done.

When I got back to the homestead for something to do that evening I recalculated the holds I was using from the Strelok data, but using the old chrono velocity. Assuming a point of aim on the shoulder, It was clear that from ~325m I would have been hitting those wee goats very low, or shooting front legs off, or missing under the brisket.

So yeah, just a simple, practical step. Trajectory validation with Strelok has markedly improved my field accuracy with my other rifles as well. I first did this back in the day as a kid in the UK with the Old Man, using his slide rule, algebra, differentiations and trigonometry... log tables, an abacus, counting beans and a sun dial. Strelok and a Galaxy 9 were the stuff of Star Wars and Doctor Who back then. Couldn't have imagined what was to come.

Validation is key. Chrono for my rem mag said average of 2950fps but when I validated real world drop it was 3000fps.

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Originally Posted by stagstalker

Validation is key. Chrono for my rem mag said average of 2950fps but when I validated real world drop it was 3000fps.

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I'll be doing confirmation loads at the range next Thursday with my 284 for this very reason with Gongs at 270, 450,570 and 620y.

Chopping and changing cals can be a pain the arse and if you're like what I've done you eventually going round in circles hahaha so KISS :-)

A "drop test" ismt gonna give you 100% accurate information either, the bc of your bullet could be different than what you are using, there is other factors to take i to account also but I wouldnt be relying on information from drop testing only, may be accurate on the day then totally screw you when you really need accurate information.

I had a 19 inch Tikka T3 30 06 suppressed N560 208gr and a long throat got me 2600fps

As far as validation goes I sighted in, then ranged 600 yards clicked up 56 clicks (from memory) and bang 60mm from aim point. Chrono must have been good.

if your happy with it just use it as is, I use a 200 grainer at 2470 and its effective to at least 500yards.

Key things to record in your validation session are:

Range needs to be within 5m at 500m. 0.1 mrad click is 8m for me there. This is important if using a target board some distance out from the backstop behind or if the ground is curving and you can't range on the target itself.
Pressure. Most new phones have a barometer so get an app to display it.
Temp . Within 5C is enough
Slope if >10 degrees

Paper is better than gongs. Shoot 5 shot groups and measure in inches or cm. Best is to set sights for 100m and use a tall target so you aren't including scope adjustment error in your observations.

Put these into your app when back calculating your velocity and BC.
If possible get your G7 BC from Litz data.

It goes without saying that you have already standarddinsed your load and dont change components.
Barrel and batches of components can change a little over the years so check every now and then.

Then put in your estimated BC and MV and use the app to get a trajectory for conditions you will do the long range shots in. Often they are 1000m higher altitude and 10C colder than you do your trajectory test at. Day to day variation in barometric pressure is small but variation with altitude is very significant. Either use the ICAO atmosphere or just record the pressure on a few days hunting on the tops.

I have a tikka 280 (7mm 30-06) for the same bracket, light and pointy but a big step up from my .243 for heavy bodied animals. big reds or thar at distance

the dirty 06 will do a fine job of 0-600 the hard part is the right scope for the job for that. I went with a march 2.5-25 and it was perfect for thar hunting but I sold it to buy some big game fishing gear which is more handy in my end of the country.

you can gain a lot from hand loading, and short barrels are good in the tight stuff
have a think about where 80% of your animals are shot distance wise and set your gun up for that, the final 20% will likely be where you have to make sacrifices either real close or 4-600m

what and where are you hunting?

And just to reiterate another point made on the first page.
You probably need to look at 2 different projectiles.
1 for in close to say 300 mtr with a stiffer jacket (ie ELD-X or similar) and then something softer for the 300-600 mtr range (ELD-M, Berger hunter etc).
Distance numbers are just me pulling something out of the air as I don't shoot 30cal so have not observed bullet damage.
Z
No one bullet does everything. Last year my 6mm had a pencil though at <30 mt on a large red hind and a mate had a surface blow up with an sst in his 7mm.