Thermal handhelds - how far can you really spot an animal?

For any thermal users out there, how far away can you really see an animal?

Could you advise of what model you are using, and how far away can you tell its a deer and not a warm rock?

Building up the coin towards buying a handheld.
The idea is to be able to know if I'm going to elminating sitting and watching a bit of barren hillside with the binos, or there are animals way over there on the next valley and its worth tramping round to use the binos.
And I shoot a place in Southland that has thick bush hiding four-legged pests, so need to know if they are there or not when we glass to last light.

Thanks

I am probably the least experieneced thermal user here, having only used one twice. But I can say the 3-4 year old pulsar a good bloke on the forum lent me allowed me to easily identify cattle at about 3km in the dark and I could distinguish rocks and deer easily, while a mates brand new Guide made it difficult to see any detail on red deer at more than about 600m. The difference in quality between them was impressive.

The new lieca handheld is even better than the top of the range pulsar as it isn't as flarey

Even a bottom of the range one I can make out deer at 200easy enough and tell between possum and kiwi at 100

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phil_H

What model Pulsar Ben?

Cheers
Phil

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Pulsar Quantum XD38s.

Depends on how far you can push your bank balance
Like ALL Optics
More you pay - more you get

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scottrods

For any thermal users out there, how far away can you really see an animal?

Could you advise of what model you are using, and how far away can you tell its a deer and not a warm rock?

Building up the coin towards buying a handheld.
The idea is to be able to know if I'm going to elminating sitting and watching a bit of barren hillside with the binos, or there are animals way over there on the next valley and its worth tramping round to use the binos.
And I shoot a place in Southland that has thick bush hiding four-legged pests, so need to know if they are there or not when we glass to last light.

Thanks

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I use a relatively inexpensive thermal. A HIK Micro Lynx Pro 25mm Lens. It will locate animals over a Kilometer away easy. However the further away the animal the harder its to identify. Experience eventually helps you figure out what the signal is likely to be. For example there is no mistaking cattle they show up as a bloody great hot blob. I reckon that inside of about 600m I could tell you whether the signal was a deer or a sheep, or a hot rock. Some of this has to do with how the animal moves and the general shape of the signal, for example deer have longer necks and legs. Where I hunt there are quite a number of sheep and cattle present and these days I don't get fooled by a false signal too often. The other biggie which you have touched on is false signals from rocks etc, This can be difficult in summer months particularly at and just after sunset. Tree stumps, bare patches of ground and even Toitoi bushes will put off a real glow. You can't do anything about this except wait a while until things cool down. In these situations there can end up being so many false signals it is hard to find deer, the only tell tale is that Rocks and stump don't tend to walk around :). Even in daylight if the area you are scanning has not been warmed up too much by sunlight the thermal is way ahead of the Bino's. I only grab them out if there are too many false signals. Its an interesting learning curve but without doubt the thermal is a very efficient way to find game, I doubt you would be disappointing.

2 - 3000m is achievable now
Identification = 1200m (is it a Deer or Cattle beast etc)
Positive identification = 800 (is it a Hind or Stag or yearling etc)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarvo

Depends on how far you can push your bank balance
Like ALL Optics
More you pay - more you get

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Yeah well not necessarily. conotech.co.nz have a range of thermals that beat many of the others on specs for price. The Polaris and Tracer range use an HIK processor with a Netd of <35MK. 35mm and 50mm F1.1 objectives ensure a decent thermal range. I imagine other thermal importers will start to drop their prices with competition.

Attachment 180245

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ben Waimata

I am probably the least experieneced thermal user here, having only used one twice. But I can say the 3-4 year old pulsar a good bloke on the forum lent me allowed me to easily identify cattle at about 3km in the dark and I could distinguish rocks and deer easily, while a mates brand new Guide made it difficult to see any detail on red deer at more than about 600m. The difference in quality between them was impressive.

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Guide / Burris don't disclose their Netd figure which is always a sign that its not the flash. The worst in the industry is the Dali's. Netd is essentially the ability to resolve differences in heat. The lower the figure the better.

Even with my relatively budget model, I can see a heat source as far as anyone would want to shoot at night.
Animal vs warm rock. Rocks don't tend to move :)

XP 50 and plenty of experience over 4 years

3km in ideal conditions
2km relatively often
1km even in sub optimal conditions
1km in good condition and you can tell the deer species and sex
Fallow have a different edge texture to reds
Stags show a different body profile
Velvet stags look like neon
Hard stags you can count the points in good conditions at 300 to 500m

BUT it takes a while to master them and if you only hunt a few times a year you will miss a lot of them
Once you get your eye in they are a very good tool

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 55six

Yeah well not necessarily. conotech.co.nz have a range of thermals that beat many of the others on specs for price. The Polaris and Tracer range use an HIK processor with a Netd of <35MK. 35mm and 50mm F1.1 objectives ensure a decent thermal range. I imagine other thermal importers will start to drop their prices with competition.

Attachment 180245

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12μm 40mK iRay (infiRay) betters all above
By far the best Bang 4 Buck

Which you appeared to miss out in your promo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarvo

12μm 40mK iRay (infiRay) betters all above
By far the best Bang 4 Buck

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Ok So pixel pitch enables smaller lense size. It doesnt have too much to do with ability to resolve. Germanium objective lense being the most expensive part of a thermal, manufacturers are heading that way but cost is still a factor. And a Netd sub 40mk is pretty meh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 55six

Ok So pixel pitch enables smaller lense size. It doesnt have too much to do with ability to resolve. Germanium objective lense being the most expensive part of a thermal, manufacturers are heading that way but cost is still a factor. And a Netd sub 40mk is pretty meh.

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Have you tried 12μm in 50mm ??
Diff between 35 and 40 is negligible

PS
What does "meh" mean

Best one I have used was fantastic. Could watch a hare have a pee @1100m and then see the pee spread as the hare loped off. ID Its a deer not a cattle beast @6km.:o

Trouble was, it was attached to the turret of a $6 million NZ LAV:ORLY:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarvo

Have you tried 12μm in 50mm ??
Diff between 35 and 40 is negligible

PS
What does "meh" mean

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@Sarvo I'm by no means adding any substance to thermals, but to answer your question:

meh
[mɛ]
EXCLAMATION
expressing a lack of interest or enthusiasm.
"meh, I'm not impressed so far"

ADJECTIVE
uninspiring; unexceptional.
"a lot of his movies are … meh"

PS

I was quite surprised to find the word has been added to the Oxford dictionary lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasquatch

@Sarvo I'm by no means adding any substance to thermals, but to answer your question:

meh
[mɛ]
EXCLAMATION
expressing a lack of interest or enthusiasm.
"meh, I'm not impressed so far"

ADJECTIVE
uninspiring; unexceptional.
"a lot of his movies are … meh"

PS

I was quite surprised to find the word has been added to the Oxford dictionary lol

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It's obviously a woke Millennial addition then

I see cattle around 3k out , pulsar accolade xp50lrf.

Had my new Steiner NightHunter H35 out the other night and was spotting possums/rabbits at 200 odd metres (just where they were) and watched 3 deer feed their way through crop paddocks at 1400m no problem after spotting them about 2k away.

Really to answer your question simply, you can spot a deer further away than you will ever desire to want to chase it.
But everything has it's up sides and down sides.

In general the higher the lens number the further you can spot deer, magnification plays a role too. 50 being the higher end with some 65s available. But the downside with these models is you have far less field of view.
So if all of your shooting was in the lower end distance wise a 25 will do the job and you will be able to scan close stuff, eg under 100 yards far more quickly than a 50 model.
The happy medium lies with the models around 35. Not too zoomed in but you can still spot animals significantly further than most people ever shoot.
As far as brands go, pulsars are good but I wouldn't get caught up on it. For half of the price you'll get something that will spot animals extremely easily, downside is you will be lacking a bit of definition so it will be a little harder to pinpoint animals as quickly. I have often used 3 different brands on any given night including some high end pulsar gear and if I was on a budget I definitely would not lose any sleep over not getting a pulsar.

As far as rocks etc go. Thermals do their best work first thing in the morning, cloudy days or a couple of hours after dark, in the summer sometimes even longer.
Dirt patches heat up extremely fast so if you are hunting rocky or clay pan type country in summer in the evening you will struggle unless it is south facing.

I have yet too see one of the new ones 55six has bought in and unfortunately there isn't much in the way of videos to get much of an idea. I'll probably purchase one anyhow and maybe make a video of it.

He's a review that gives you a side by side view on similar type models of different brands.
https://youtu.be/F_CHvO8C8YU

The conotech we sell uses the HIK sensor, netd >35mk

One thing I would suggest is, if you can , get one with a range finder built in . Not so bad during the day but unless you know the area you are in very well it can be difficult at night to judge distance . Being that you are looking through a TV screen there's zero depth perception . This has caught me out a few times .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Phil_H

Here is a promotion video of the Conotech Tracer LRF
https://youtu.be/IdN5x3RFgF0
I was watching a video in either Hungarian, Serbian....I think. It was a hunting show that they do. This appears to be their footage lifted by Conotech for the promotion or maybe it was the other way around. My first thought was ......sheesh!!!! and we think we have a pig and deer problem.....

Cheers
Phil

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The footage on that promotion vid reminds me of the backcountry on some of the Central North Island high country stations in the late 1970's:o

Sold my Pulsar Helion 38mm(hand held) after having it 3yrs,good peice of kit.I brought a Guide TA 435 clip on 18months ago(hand held and clip on scope in one unit)fov at 50yds is 29ft,100yds is 58ft.Can tell between a stag and hinds at about 1.4ks on a good night.Pick up on cattle and deer 2k away and tell the difference.Cattle usaully stay in the one spot or move very slowly.Deer feed, look up,feed,move around,never stand still much.Put their noises in the air to smell out the enemy around.All very well for going for distance,but most of my night shooting is inside 200yds for deer so this is where fov is important and quality of picture for scanning and finding yr target quickly at night.The TA 435 is and very good 2 n 1 peice of kit.You may scan a area every 10 minuts thru the night and and only need to put it on yr scope once for a deer or pig.You can run it of a power pack,but i find the Nitecore RCA 123A last about 1hr 40minuts run the thermo none stop.So if you turn on, scan for 5 minuts at most and rest for 15 minuts.I only use about 3 or 4 pairs of batterys thru the night.I can change the batterys in the dark in about 30 seconds and have a charger running off a small powerpack to charge batterys if needed.Sometimes i see these TA435s on trade me going for 3.5k or so.A good unit for the price second hand.

A slight digression of topic.

Criteria: off a quad, thinking of a thermal handheld to spot and a night vision scope to shoot with.

Main quarry. Rabbits, possums, hares. Not worried about deer.

Shooting range: Usually under a 100 metres

Would one of the lower end thermals be suited to the task outlined above?

I get that the more you pay the better it is. I’m after something fit for purpose.

Thanks all.


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Hi tirohunta,maybe a 19mm lens for thermal would suit you.Wide fov inside 100yds =15 to 19 + degress.And they match yr wallet better,dollars always the factor.Get one that runs off a small power pack.Not to big in yr hand and easy to slide in a side pocket of yr jacket when taking a shot.Try to get a shop to loan you one,do some deal.Dont always go for the cheapis,few more hunred dollars could find a good thermal for you.

I use a cheap 25mm one for the exact same reason you want one for and for anything further away or needing a bit more detail I use a 35mm.
Virtually all rabbits and possums that I spot quickly with the 25 are in range for the 17hmr which is really handy and you can scan extremely quickly. I actively scan while riding the quad and driving the side by side.
I just use a cheap night tech one for this type of work.
They are a game changer to be honest.
For deer they quite literally take the hunt out of hunting, hence why some of the instafamous hunters that actively rely on them to find deer never ever mention they use one!

Thanks @Trout and @TLB. That’s the useful information I’m after.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sarvo

It's obviously a woke Millennial addition then

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Ha, my Jewish girlfriend used it in the 90's when I lived in the USA.

My mate has one of these and hooked up to a tablet makes identifying animals so much clearer/easier at long distance thats if your not walking and you can drive where you hunt