Gun case has some history.
Printable View
Gun case has some history.
Wet again this morning so I loaded 5 rounds with the heavier 130 grain BP charge
Left to right
222 Rimmed
7x57 Rimmed
5 rounds 577-500 #2 Express
500 3" BPE
50-70 US Govt
Attachment 269983
The 500 3" BPE is the go to 500 BPE in the day and is sufficient for any DG that could bite and claw you.
But they ran into pressure problems in the tropics.
Hence the 577-500 #2 Express had 40% more capacity and used very coarse slow powder to get velocities around 1800 FPS and low pressure at high atmospheric temperatures and humidity.
The 500 BPEs were not for DG that could stomp on you and grind you into dust.
They were not as most people currently think a Big Five DG caliber.
They look puny against a 10, 8 or 4 bore BP rifle which was what you would have faced off the big angry guys prior to Nitro coming on the scene
There’s a short barrelled double rifle floating around NZ, one of 3 made. Its use was to shoot tigers trying to come up the side of an elephant to eat you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tentman
It’s in mint condition
Refitting the case is finished and the Greener looks pretty comfortable in there
Attachment 270003
Attachment 270004
Attachment 270005
Howdah PistolQuote:
Originally Posted by Maca49
where do you find these treasures?
I imagine if a tiger came at you, you'd hardly feel the recoil
Everything you can possibly imagine is somewhere in NZQuote:
Originally Posted by Martin358
It just takes time and effort to convince their current custodian that you are going to be it's next custodian
I do shoot and hunt with all my vintage rifles, but I do fix them and leave them in better condition for the next owner
I opened this just for this comment! I'm surprised it got to 20 posts before someone chimed in about cougars haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
No Tigers last night ( or deer ) but a joy to be out there with it.
Quite nice in hand and on the shoulder
But a lot heavier than I'm used to
Attachment 270042
Well by your own admission it's just like two single shots isn't it.
I'd have probably just sat there looking at the rifle while a herd of deer walked by and not noticed them
I agree, I keep looking at the pics, it's the best-looking rifle I have seen in a very long time, and you are shooting it .... even betterQuote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
More better pics then
Attachment 270108
Attachment 270109
Attachment 270110
Attachment 270111
Attachment 270113
There is no gun to good to be shot and hunted with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
All my vintage rifles do exactly what it says on the label.
With a double you don't have the option of a light load or it won't regulate.
This is an Express Rifle so the bullets need to be going around 1800 fps to regulate
With my single shot 500s you can ease up on powder and allow for that with the sights.
My Webley 500 3" only weights 7 1/2 lbs and is unpleasant with 100 grains of BP
But shoots just fine with 85 grains
I've figured out why side by sides, rifle or shotgun are so graceful and pleasing on the eye. It tits, they're side by side and we admire them so it's natural to appreciate things oriented in the same plane. That's another mystery solved.
So we are evolutionarily drawn to doubles ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Henry
Well your living proof at present so Yes, I believe you may be correct.
I decided it was time to clean and oil the Greener stock.
It looked a bit dark and dirty.
But turns out I got very little dirt out of the checkering
The walnut is just very dark, very dense and fine straight grain
The oil hardly soaked in and ran out of the checkering
It will be interesting to see what I end up with
I know you don't need me to tell you don't over clean it but what's your method for cleaning the stock? I have used high quality furniture wax and fine steel wool in the past, going very slowly to remove the dirt but not patina.
Just smash the dirt off with the water blaster !Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
No I usually alternate between acetone and turps.
The acetone slowly melts the dried on gun oil from the stock and the turps draws it out.
But this stock has no oil staining at all and just a few light gun cabinet bruises.
That's a first ever for me and it needed a different treatment.
So I just used turps and OOOO steel wool to scrub off some old gun safe mildew marks and turps and a tooth brush on the checkering.
For the first time ever in my experience there was not the slightest trace of crap to come out of the checkering !
The mildew marks came out nicely.
Then mostly the stock oil I applied slowly ran off the bottom of the stock and fore end when I hung them up.
The walnut is so dense, so dark and so well oiled and sealed originally that the pores are still filled and closed and it just won't take any more oil.
The grain in the butt stock is now more clearly visible and I will try and get some decent images outdoors soon
To be honest this stock is so dark my smart phone camera even struggles with it outdoors
Attachment 270181
Attachment 270182
Attachment 270183
Stunning , you can just see the lighter bits of figure through the butt , it so dark the ebony foreend tip is even hard to see , and the checking is mint , doesn’t get any better really .
That rifle is just about worth getting a professional photographer to take some glamour shots.
The fore end tip is buffalo hornQuote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
I have an expert photographer coming to stay to photograph my collection for some Gazette articlesQuote:
Originally Posted by stug
He will set up his photo booth in my workshop
There are some minute details in the stock making that I think would only be obvious to a gunsmith or stock maker
Those little details and the 24 line per inch checkering suggest Best Gun quality.
Which is interesting because there is absolutely no engraving on the metalwork.
It's dead plain which is like a Working Rifle.
But it never went to Work
Sadly Greener ( who still exist ) don't do ledger searches anymore.
If only they could talk
The buffalo horn fore end tip is dovetailed on to the walnut and then the curved beak is seamlessly fitted up
Attachment 270240
Attachment 270241
Which means this shouldn't come loose
And there is a small molded detail between the barrel channels that is pure stock makers class
Attachment 270242
Attachment 270242
And a beautiful machine patterned beaked butt plate that is faultlessly fitted
Attachment 270244
Attachment 270245
So last picture and then it goes away until the light Express bullet mould arrives or it goes hunting
Attachment 270252
There are a lot of nice things about this rifle but it's bores are the greatest feature.
Both are 100% perfect
I first saw this rifle early 2024 on a trip to liberate some nice single shot rifles.
I wouldn't usually spend money on doubles that could go on singles.
But when you see mint bores you can't un see them.
Now I'm a Bore Snob. Good bores make everything else easy with vintage rifles.
Those bores sort of haunted me.
Then late 2024 I liberated some more nice single shot rifles from the same gent and looked in far more detail at this double.
Yes the bores were as good as I had remembered
Yes the colours were nearly perfect
Yes it was Mechanically 100%
Yes it was the biggest 500 ever ( although I still wasn't sure exactly which 577-500 it was ).
Yes if you only ever owned one Big BPE Double this was the one to own.
And yes it was definitely Not For Sale
I pushed pretty hard on the day because I had done pretty well on the day.
I was taking away 3 very nice single shot rifles and I had traded 4 very nice Rook Rifles.
Anyway only 3 days later I'm making a courtesy call to check that the guy was happy with his trades.
Turns out after being able to see how exceptional 3 of the Rook rifles were he was pretty darn happy.
We get talking and of course I mention it was hard to walk away from such an exceptional 500 Double Rifle and he casually mentions he probable would sell it after all.
Well we talked it back and forth and the rest is history
He had owned it for in excess of 40 years.
Never considered remotely ever shooting it.
I think it probably picked up most of its dings in 100 years of gun cabinets.
I wonder when it lost contact with its original travel case ?
When I'm finished with it it will be cased, have moulds, brass, dies, load data and a whole lot more memories ( and a few more dings ) to go with it
It really needs a trip to Africa.. Really.
These were never popular in AfricaQuote:
Originally Posted by whanahuia
They were really pretty well an India specific caliber.
Flung a decent lump of lead about the fastest you can push them with large charge of BP
Despite it seeming to be a very big cartridge by our current standards.
This would have been totally insufficient on the DG animals in Africa
Nice pathway to ownership ,its gone to the right home which would have spoken spades to the seller , I had the chance to buy a Single Shot 500 BPE a couple years ago , didn’t really have the cash at the time so passed , went back later to try again and it is now in Australia ….aaagh , these opportunities almost never come up so was a hard lesson learned .
Thats a shameQuote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
500 BPE singles are a lot less common than doubles.
I'm not sure if I have a 50 cal / 500 obsession or magnetism ?
I have more 50/500s than any other caliber
50 cal Muzzleloader
12.7x44R Sporting Rolling Block
50-70 Sharps Carbine
50 Eley aka 300 3" 1885
2x 500 3" British Break Action singles
577-500 #2 Double
and sold to forum members
50 cal flintlock
500 BPE Martini Single
Looking at those photos of the woodwork got me thinking, and as I'd used two of my doubles yesterday ( sadly not rifles though) I took a closer look.
Seems dovetailing horn was the way it was done. The man hours involved in doing these plus the fine checkering and engraving mean they're works if art as well as functional tools. Not intending to steal your thread, maybe there should be a separate one on gun art.
Well all my American tips are glued on
Will look at the other English ones and see if direct stick or dovetailed
The 130 grain BP load has brought the bullets together at 50m
Shooting really well and I'm properly ready for some hunting now
Attachment 270968
Check out the fire arm blog march 12 or 13 for some howdah porn :D
