Thread: Trademe licence glitch

Originally Posted by timattalon

The form being fill out is a legal requirement, however the act only requires as you quoted

(a) signed by the purchaser; and

(b) bearing an endorsement signed by a member of the Police and stating that the member of the Police—
(i) has inspected the purchaser’s firearms licence; and
(ii) is satisfied that the purchaser is a fit and proper person to purchase that firearm or ammunition."

It is being challenged because the law requires a signed verified form stating the buyer has a license that the seller can rely on that a police officer has checked and the buyer is a legitimate FA license holder who you can send the firearm to.

The law does NOT require

a) the sellers Name, address or license details to be checked.
b) The details (or ANY details) of the firearm being purchased- (Though checking it is not stolen could be a good idea.)
c) And the law states it can be signed and checked by ANY warranted Police personnel- It does not need to go to the Arms office for checking.

These are additions that have been added by the police and the argument is whether they are allowed to legally require these when the law itself does not.

Essentially it is really only a statement of fact for the buyer that the seller does indeed have a licence. The Police form CAN have space for those other details IF NEEDED but they are not a LEGAL REQUIREMENT for the form to be processed. This is where the breaches are occurring when the officer tells a buyer that the form is incomplete and he cannot sign it, as long as it has the buyers name, address (?) and firearms license details and a stamped signature of a police officer, it is complete.

Close, but not quite!

The Act and Regulations do not require a police generated form. Because there is not a requirement for a police generated form, the fact that police have produced one makes it illegal. The fact that the form asks for information that is not required by the Act and Regulations makes this an illegal request by police. The question is who authorized this bogus form and the accompanying time allocated to it's production and processing. Insisting that the form can only be signed by a designated arms officer is a direct contradiction of the Act.
Police may only do that which is specified in Law. They may not make shit up.

You may produce your own form, which may be any grubby piece of paper, stating that you are purchasing a firearm or ammunition, and that you are a fit and proper person to purchase that firearm or ammunition. You are then required to take that form to any member of police and have them sign it after they have inspected your licence to check that you are the person in the photo. There is no provision for the recording of firearms licence details. No stamped signature. You sign it and the member of police signs it. Done.

The whole point of the exercise is that because the seller can't sight your firearms licence personally, that a member of police can sight the licence as the sellers proxy. It is not designed to add layers of difficulty to a sale.

A refusal by a member of police to sign the form when you have a current licence is a dereliction of statutory duty for which there are penalties. The barrister, Nicholas Taylor wants to hear from any firearms owner who has been obstructed by police in this way and told to use the police form. Please record identifying details of the police member concerned and pass on to Mr Taylor.
He has even produced a generic form for the use of firearms owners who do not wish to produce their own.

Those who play on Trademe and accept their conditions are acting against firearms owners and participating in the enemies programme.
Those who use the police form 43a are acting against firearms owners and participating in the enemies programme.