Thread: We have too many guns on our streets

We're screwed either way. Buy new and find you don't use it so much and leave it in the safe. If you sell it the original sales still in your name so if it's used in a crime years down the track Mr Plods at your door. ( Don't even mention the 1/3 at least loss).Leave it in the safe and the wrong people freak and say your building an arsenal.
( Don't even mention the difficulty of stealth safe installation when the missus won't go when you want to put one in)

Originally Posted by Woody

It would not bother me one bit if all semi auto's were outlawed in NZ, including shotguns.

You're an idiot. Would it bother you if high powered sniper rifles were banned i.e. everything with a scope and\or a caliber over .22?

Beside that the type of restructions you talk about do nothing for safety. Bolt actions are fast to reload and don't have any mag length restriictions so wtf does banning semi autos do? Mag restructions are just as stupid as it only takes 1.5 seconds to change a mag. Don't get me started on pistol grips.

Originally Posted by Woody

Hey , you three erstwhile sensitive new age guys. Stop reading your own bias into my post. I simply said it would not bother me if semi auto's were banned. Nothing more

However, I DO reckon that if the semi auto's were not here, that our conservation values for our game , both land and airborne, would benefit more than somewhat; and probably shooting skills as well.

Have you ever used a semi hunting? They have their place and it's not for blasting away full mags at departing animals. The softest shooting shotgun is a semi and fast follow up shots on the same or next bird in a mob is important for things that fly. 10/22 is the classic rabbit shooting rifle and AR is fast becoming the classic long range varminter. There is no link between conservation and action type \ mag length so don't believe everything crusty old duck shooters tell you (we never had wounded ducks before semis and steel shot...)

If reasonableness, objectiveness, and calmness when provoked were pre-requisites for fire arm ownership, and we were accordingly judged by what we wrote on forums, many of us would come up with a big FAIL.

Calling someone an idiot would certainly be a fail.

Banning semis may or may not make back stop tyres last a bit longer. That's about it.

Originally Posted by Tahr

If reasonableness, objectiveness, and calmness when provoked were pre-requisites for fire arm ownership, and we were accordingly judged by what we wrote on forums, many of us would come up with a big FAIL.

Calling someone an idiot would certainly be a fail.

You are right @Tahr calling someone an idiot isn't the way to go but I do agree with what has been mostly said so far regarding semi-auto ownership. And @MassiveAttack made some good points.

Regardless of action-type it won't matter what becomes outlawed first, the rest will follow. There is nothing wrong whatsoever with semi's when used responsibly by law abiding FAL holders. The problem is how such firearms, MSSA style to be specific is getting in the hands of criminals.

Banning them would do nothing. In fact if you look at Aussie, crime would no doubt increase. We need to all stick together on this and voice our opinions on public forums as you put it @Tahr with reasonableness, objectiveness, and calmness We all as firearm owners & enthusiasts deserve (once permitted of course) to own A,B,C and E category firearms as much as we please. I for one take huge pride in my heirloom NZ Service Rifle collection and being that my family fought in past conflicts and wars I want to carry that history.

My 2c anyway. And please don't name call, it's not necessary.

Sorry Hamsav, yet again I dont agree. If you look at the facts, the very few cases of firearms related crime are with a good old .22, or a 12 g shotgun, single or sxs. Usually modified ie sawn off. MSSA's and other semi's get a bad rap because of public ignorance, because they are perceived as evil, because they are usually associated with terrorists etc. And if there is a crime committed with one, and there are very few, the media gets all antsy and hypes up the public to generate sales, way beyond what is normal for "normal type weapons". As stated above, lets all stick together and ensure that as responsible firearms owners we continue to have the right to choose which style of firearm we wish to use because we are responsible, we are not criminals.

Banning semi's won't make us look more "acceptable" to the general public. If you don't beleve me look at Australia.

I am gobsmacked that people don't think semi's are applicable to hunting. 99% of duck shooters changed over to semis for several reasons and large mags wasn't one of them. I have shot for two years with a pump and then changed over to a semi and would never go back. Softer shooting and faster, more accurate follow up shots.

History repeats. At one stage "normal" firearms were single shot and then magazine fed bolt actions were introduced. There was much hand wringing about "wasting ammo" and more than one military rifle had a mag cut off so that you could single feed the gun. Groups of blokes would have stood around in hunting clubs and talked about how the sport was being ruined by those new fangled magazine guns and how the decline in game numbers is being caused by unskilled hunters with multi shot guns wounding animals.

It's all the same exept now bolt action mag fed guns are "standard" and semi auto modern sporting rifles are the new kid on the block. If you ban them you turn your back on 100 years of technology and thats just plain silly if not a little stupid.

As per conversation with police and AO, MSSA's get stashed and hoarded by organised criminals and are kept for status symbols and for a rainy day. They're too valuable to turn their minions loose with them.

Eh stuff. Where journalism goes to die.

Violent gun crime is in decline; so we should ban guns.

They also fail to mention that the increase in confiscation rates this year is largely due to a massive operation chasing and arresting weed growers. Thats what the 4 cops got shot over. Fucking weed.

Just legalise the shit allready and take like 1/2 of the black market gang revenue away, reduce crime rates and boost the economy by at least what they hope to gain from the TPPA.

You are on fire today.
But in my book, referring to someone as an idiot is never justified or reasonable.

We can choose to be unconditionally constructive in all of our conversations, and still name peoples' behaviour as not appropriate or unreasonable. Its all about what we say and how we frame it.

I must admit though that my unique to me sense of humour can alienate people at times.

I remember a few years ago, an article was written in the herald about gun control and the viability of allowing people to have Semi Auto's available to the public, they interviewed a range officer from a small bore target shooting club from somewhere down Hamilton ways and he said : there are no need for anyone to have any more than a bolt action rifle, semi autos should be outright banned' (I'm paraphrasing there a wee bit). I remember reading the article and thinking to myself - you bastard, running a range and stabbing other gun enthusiasts/owners in the back. His self centered opinion only highlighted the limit of his interests, it didn't reflect any "benefits" for society, it was just him hating on what he didn't care for. And people are like that, they have no empathy for the enjoyment or freedom of others to enjoy something that doesn't affect them. Much like Ducan ' anti-gun' Garner on radiolive a.k.a. Duncan Donut, he suggested that target shooting was not a legitimate sport, because you're not using the gun to kill anything, (he apparently does some hunting up north). Thus target shooting should not be given any consideration when looking at the gun ownership issue.

We do need cohesion in order to keep the status quo and heat on the Government. I personally do not own an M.S.S.A. or a Pistol, but will show protest just as vigorously as I would if A-Cat we're being targeted to see them regulated as the are now and not sent to the scrap heap, in defense of my fellow gun owners, who, like me are not the issue the vast majority of these circumstances. The public at large need to see our cohesion and the calm, well thought through logic, that defends our wholly legitimate reasons for firearm ownership.

As an analogy - Speed kills more people than guns in this country. If a boy racer is clocking 180km/hr down the road and kills three children walking to school, we don't automatically jump to the conclusion that all Nissan Skylines should be banned, we all know that the Nissan skyline is a fast moving car, favoured by some speed demons, and on top of that why do you possibly need a motor vehicle that can make speeds in excess of 110km/hr, truth is you don't. People use these fast cars to evade police after committing crimes, use them while intoxicated and even some have been used as mobile meth labs. So why should law abiding owners of Nissan Skylines be held responsible for the actions of a criminal? If you agree that this analogy should become the law, you can certainly sit there and say - Yes Semi Auto's should go.

Criminals are not going to in anyway shape or form going to be halted in the slightest. They are by definition are defiant of the laws of this land. Gun registration is the ambulance at the bottom of the hill, it's only useful after the crime has been committed, and if you agree with it, even knowing that - Ok, I have no beef with that. I suspect it will be costly, resource hungry, and worse yet, you may be waiting in line for some time as the headhunters get all their serial numbers recorded, oh sorry, that last one might not be very likely.

I am for gun control, the gun control we already have. I am in favour of coming down tougher on organised crime, gangs, hard drugs (meth) and for customs searching a few more than 10 containers a day (a few more containers could be done, without delaying us all on our next warehouse purchase).

Cooking meth in a Skyline sounds cramped; awkward.

Restricting freedoms on the basis of "need" is the stupidest thing in the world. We "need" very little of what we have.

Originally Posted by coltace

We do need cohesion in order to keep the status quo and heat on the Government. I personally do not own an M.S.S.A.

On a sidenote, thank you for abbreviating that correctly. Does my head in when people don't use the final full stop.