Thread: We have too many guns on our streets

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

And a Claymore!? look at the photo. The H and K looks like a c-cat.

I could quite happily babysit that

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

And a Claymore!? look at the photo. The H and K looks like a c-cat.

I'll Take in the M14. I'll take good care of it

Well you think that the police could in fact ask exaclty which baby killing semi auto muskets were stolen when doing the theft report and perhaps they could even write said answer down on some paper or like in an email or whatever and file it in a rolodex or floppy disk or other such high tech system.

But maybe we should have a machine guns dewey decimal register and then we will know exactly where the weapons aren't after they get stolen, and hence would have 1 place not to look for them, which would really narrow it down.

Originally Posted by Steve123

I'll Take in the M14. I'll take good care of it

Maybe you would like it, or it could be airsoft.

Rule 1 - don't believe these BS artists.

Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

Maybe you would like it, or it could be airsoft.

Rule 1 - don't believe these BS artists.

Wood looks to good to be a commie knock off and airsoft has no meaning in my life.
it's all corporate bullshit news anyhow but I'll bet there's nowhere near that amount of weapons stolen. And don't fierarm dealers keep a register allready ?

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When will we see a well written myth busting response from COLFO, SSANZ, NZDA etc?

Originally Posted by Beavis

When will we see a well written myth busting response from COLFO, SSANZ, NZDA etc?

You could write to the author himself.
jonathan.milne@star-times.co.nz

Yeh. many of the ones that posted misunderstood my meaning and intent. Never mind, there is no long term harm done. On the subject of pumps; the first gun I provided my grandson was a 20ga Remington pump;- for several reasons, not the least of which was the great safety features of this weapon. He could have 1 or later, 2 in the magazine with an empty chamber while carrying. I never had to worry about a gun not broken, nor a semi with one instantly in the chamber. The gun could be loaded and unloaded with safety on, and was never cocked without my permission-- the cocking action itself being a noisy affair giving plenty of audible warning and a certain amount of time for me to react if improper.

We still own that firearm and soon it may sprout a rifled barrel for deer slugs.

The interesting thread which underlies several of the more negative remarks that were posted struck me as near paranoia type concern and perceptions by firearm owners that ANY concession we might give , relating to firearms ownership and use, would almost certainly be capitalized upon by negative anti gun media and associated belligerent interests, and that this would be used by government and or police to lever our established rights away from us. In my view this is a legitimate concern held by lawful firearms owners, but nevertheless a sad indictment of the lack of trust in our government and the way it makes laws, and the meaninglessness, or lack of meaningfulness of the consultative processes that exist in our country. It is a fact that in many other spheres of citizens engagements with local and regional councils people feel that their concerns, submissions etc are ignored, downplayed or made to be of less than significant importance by those elected to govern locally or nationally. The excuses that are engineered by governing bodies to with-hold information from the public are many and varied and it is becoming increasingly difficult for citizens to have any satisfactory redress for their concerns.

This is the real nub of the fears that beset firearms owners, along with those, who, for example fear pollution of their water supplies by mass aerial poison applications, and pollution by carcasses, by-kill etc, truck drivers who need to complete 'x' km per day to keep delivery schedules being held up by lycra clad pedal pushers but who are to afraid to breach the "PC" gap by going public with their concerns and other drivers who live in fear of hitting a wavering cyclist. I'm sure you can think of many examples of "fears of breaching PC" and the fears of standing up and being counted and seen by all and sundry, and risking public criticism or lampooning. How many governing Ministries do you trust implicitly? DoC? MPI ?, Ministry of Health?, Ministry of Education? Police? Ministry for the Environment (who controls ALL resource consent procedures)?

If you have doubts about trust , then ask yourself this:-- what meaningful ongoing actions are you personally taking to correct things you are concerned about, and also speaking out.

Is it PC to ask how many of the relations and so-called concerned relatives of the prick who was involved in drugs and who shot 4 policemen knew of his activities and did anything or sfa to stop him before it came to the shootings? I saw a Maori university professor on TV 1 the other day saying to the public in his interview that if a non Maori policeman came to his door he would slam the door in his face until a Maori policemen came instead. This joker claimed to have been a policeman in OZ before he came to NZ to become one of our educational elite. WTF?
And while this educationalist blabs his crap, legitimate firearms owners are getting crap because a criminal illegally uses a firearm.
Question is --- what positive things can we collectively do about ignorance in and by governance powers-- across the board?

Originally Posted by Tussock

Not trusting your government is fundamental to democracy. Governments are not meant to be trusted.

Historically trusting a government causes them to become untrustworthy. Its like storing your wallet on the footpath outside your house, then acting surprised when it gets carried off.

The thing is--how do we sort them out?

Originally Posted by Woody

The thing is--how do we sort them out?

Keep not trusting them and fight not to give them too much control.

I read somewhere that the Police were reviewing the Arms Act to evaluate whether the E-cat register is worth having, my guess is all semis will be made A, or (more likely) E. This will be a pain for most people, as tens, probably hundreds of thousands of the quarter-million license holders will have to buy a new safe, and register those firearms effected. I can't imagine the logistical nightmare awaiting police if they have to track down and inform every license holder in the country that all semis are now E-cat, and then issuing tens of thousands of free endorsements. The Law of Unintended Consequences here will result in many of those people keeping those semi-autos, buying a new safe, and then going and buying as many big, scary, 30 round magazines as they like; the opposite of what the police and media want to see. We could go from 7300 to 107300 E-cat holders in a very short period of time, and while I don't want to see it happen, I only have one A-cat semi-auto, and if I had to register it and pop it in the E-cat safe next to the L1A1, I wouldn't lose any sleep. Having many more people with endorsements actually might result in them trying harder to keep hold of their investments, and putting more pressure on the govt and Police as a result.
As other have pointed out, Police are (quite rightly) shocked at what they come across in the possession of gang members, but if these firearms were being acquired for premeditated crimes, that's what they'd be used for. Instead they are clearly status symbols, and maybe to be used against other gangs, and don't really see the light of day unless whoever has it gets drunk enough or angry enough to use it. Yes this is concerning, but it means these crims have weighed up the pros and cons and know that (in some cases I've seen) a $200 fine is all they face if caught with it. So, I think a $10,000 fine for any gang member caught with a firearm would go a long way to dissuading them, plus $100 per round of ammunition, and if the can't pay, it can come out of their benefit until paid off. Also the current security requirements for A-cat licenses are a joke, the booklet that comes with the arms code these says you can just chain them around an immovable object like a rafter or hot-water cylinder.
Online registration in gun shops? Three out of my four co-workers don't even know how to log on to Fish & Game to issue a fishing license to a customer, but hey, it'd be fun to watch.
As for Woody, he is certainly entitled to express his opinion; that's what a forum is for, but he ought to have known most of us on here shoot semi-autos. If he thinks we have anger management issues and are mentally unstable for disagreeing with him, then I dare say he may be a bit soft. Perhaps shooting and hunting are too controversial, and he ought to consider another hobby. Cup-stacking is a sport, apparently.

Originally Posted by tommygun

I read somewhere that the Police were reviewing the Arms Act to evaluate whether the E-cat register is worth having, my guess is all semis will be made A, or (more likely) E. This will be a pain for most people, as tens, probably hundreds of thousands of the quarter-million license holders will have to buy a new safe, and register those firearms effected. I can't imagine the logistical nightmare awaiting police if they have to track down and inform every license holder in the country that all semis are now E-cat, and then issuing tens of thousands of free endorsements. The Law of Unintended Consequences here will result in many of those people keeping those semi-autos, buying a new safe, and then going and buying as many big, scary, 30 round magazines as they like; the opposite of what the police and media want to see. We could go from 7300 to 107300 E-cat holders in a very short period of time, and while I don't want to see it happen, I only have one A-cat semi-auto, and if I had to register it and pop it in the E-cat safe next to the L1A1, I wouldn't lose any sleep. Having many more people with endorsements actually might result in them trying harder to keep hold of their investments, and putting more pressure on the govt and Police as a result.
As other have pointed out, Police are (quite rightly) shocked at what they come across in the possession of gang members, but if these firearms were being acquired for premeditated crimes, that's what they'd be used for. Instead they are clearly status symbols, and maybe to be used against other gangs, and don't really see the light of day unless whoever has it gets drunk enough or angry enough to use it. Yes this is concerning, but it means these crims have weighed up the pros and cons and know that (in some cases I've seen) a $200 fine is all they face if caught with it. So, I think a $10,000 fine for any gang member caught with a firearm would go a long way to dissuading them, plus $100 per round of ammunition, and if the can't pay, it can come out of their benefit until paid off. Also the current security requirements for A-cat licenses are a joke, the booklet that comes with the arms code these says you can just chain them around an immovable object like a rafter or hot-water cylinder.
Online registration in gun shops? Three out of my four co-workers don't even know how to log on to Fish & Game to issue a fishing license to a customer, but hey, it'd be fun to watch.
As for Woody, he is certainly entitled to express his opinion; that's what a forum is for, but he ought to have known most of us on here shoot semi-autos. If he thinks we have anger management issues and are mentally unstable for disagreeing with him, then I dare say he may be a bit soft. Perhaps shooting and hunting are too controversial, and he ought to consider another hobby. Cup-stacking is a sport, apparently.

They won't make all semis into MSSAs, they don't need to. The amendments to the arms act now allows types of firearms to be declared MSSAs.
So rather just by the features a semi auto rifle has (pistol grip, magazine size, bayonet lug, flash hider etc), we should now expect all AR types and variants, all AK types and variants and others like the M14/M1A/M305 and SLR/FAL to be declared MSSAs full stop, even if they are currently in A-Cat appearance and not held by an endorsed licensee.

Don't expect them to give out the easy MSSA endorsements again either. I agree with you, Police don't want more, they want less evil black rifle owners around the country!
I suspect it will be a variation on last time, on sell it to an endorsed holder or hand in to the Police to surrender by a certain date.
We all know how that worked in Australia, only half the known rifles ever were handed in.

On the other hand, there might be some cheap newly designated MSSAs flooding the market, so if you have the $$$, some good deals will be made.

Greg O'Connor is scaremongering again with meaningless figures that he has plucked out of thin air. The NZ Police have put a large number of handguns into the illegal pool, Glocks in recent years, and a large and unknown number of .38 S&W Victory revolvers were sold out the backdoor of the Police Armoury when it was in Vivian Street in the 1970's. The Police were changing to .38 Special S&W Model 10's and all the old .38's were sent in to be replaced. They were just chucked into a large box without any records being taken (I saw the box with several hundred revolvers in it when I visited) and they disapeared out the back door every week. The Police Armourer and a couple of others were convicted but the guns had disappeared. The NZ Defence Force has lost large numbers of guns over the years (pistols, SMG's, MG's and rifles) but I have never seen any figures. That would make an interesting question in the house! Add to those the significant numbers of firearms that have been smuggled into NZ over the years from North America and the Eastern Bloc countries (hidden in motor vehicles, engines, etc, and brought in on foreign fishing vessles as a source of ready cash for crew members). The problem does not lie with the lawful firearms owners of NZ! It lies with the armed government departments and slack border security! Of course, the various departments will invoke CYA policies and seek to shift the blame onto innocent parties. They would never admit to anything that would affect their cushy jobs, annual bonuses and extravagant superannuation!

This remindes me of a joke I heard recently.

In soviet Russia one comrade says to the other "Dear comrade, how come you have worked at the bed factory for 10 years but you don't have a bed in your house?"
The other says "The party distributes beds on the bases of need. The comrades at the hospital need beds much more than I do I am still waiting."
The first comrade then says "Dear comrade, you do not understand this problem. You work at the bed factory so every day you should take a part home from the parts bin and then when you assemble all the parts you will have a bed."
The other replies "No comrade, it is you that doesn't understand, we have done this many times but it does not work - each time we end up with a AK47 assault rifle!"

Guns are just inanimate bits of wood, plastic and metal. You banning them is as stupid as banning plants although that doesn't stop people trying.

Source of illegal firearms?(yes I know it's Australia )

http://www.ntnews.com.au/news/northe...14940a69e34ba5

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