Thread: Are we on the wrong 'No.1" criteria when scope buying?

I see a lot of self-tests done in this forum for scopes comparing their 'last light' image clarity...you know 'which scope could make out the tree closest to darkness'.

But I see bugger all scope tracking tests on this forum....why?

All that "glass, lenses, coatings, etc,"... the whole scope environment is purposefully shrouded in mystery and yet people claim to know, and be able to identify, 'the best' optic quality.

However, at a certain lens quality point I just can't tell the difference in optical clarity between scopes...and really is the last 5mins of light that important?

I can, however, reliably test the scope's mechanical adjustments at the range to see its tracking accuracy very objectively.

I think that in this age of laser rangefinders and dialing, the mechanical aspects of a scope are more important than the optical quality. It’s no use having great clarity in a scope if it doesn’t track correctly. However, it seems that people judge a scope (and one pays for), the optical clarity.
But a rifle scope without good turrets is just a telescope...therefore accurate turret dialing, I suggest, should be the most important and therefore most tested for aspect of a scope.
More scope tracking tests anyone?

You are correct in saying the scope isn't worth a thing if it doesn't track accurartly but also the optics play a major role in the overall make up of the scope. That last five minutes could be the difference of taking a trophy of a lifetime or putting meat on the table.
Of the two I think dialling is more important by a margine but optics are right up there two.

In my experience, I feel animals are more active in the last 5 minutes of daylight. There’s not much point dialling when you can’t see the animal to shoot. However, there isn’t much point shooting at an animal that you can’t ethically kill if your scope can’t accurately dial. Maybe people should focus on hold over rather than dialling? However I prefer dialling, but rarely shoot over 300m where the error in dialling will have minimal effect.

I put up a EIR Tech report – tracking tests conducted using in-service military testing equipment.
On a Delta Stryker 4.5-30x56 FFP
Had to squeeze a pimple to get one comment – which was from you :-)
So – there you go
Back to the drawing board with ya

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Yeah. If you have to dial it's probably too far away.

Originally Posted by Shearer

Yeah. If you have to dial it's probably too far away.

I agree, say you do dial and shoot an animal at a considerable distance, how long is it going to take to retrieve the animal? Especially in the last 5 minutes of light.

Originally Posted by Liam258

I agree, say you do dial and shoot an animal at a considerable distance, how long is it going to take to retrieve the animal? Especially in the last 5 minutes of light.

I guess that's why there's a flashlight sticky too.

Originally Posted by Shearer

I guess that's why there's a flashlight sticky too.

Haha yep, although I have been caught out in the past walking by flash light trying to retrieve an animal on the other side of the valley and getting bluffed out. Although if it’s a trophy if a life time nothing would be stopping me from trying to retrieve it.

People just want different things. Dialing is certainly fashionable but not everyone is into it.

What people in this forum do not do is comparing scopes of the same class - scopes of similar price, weight, and magnification. The scopes Woody recently compared are essentially 4 different classes, not to mention not all of the same era. While it is a cool piece to read, it has little applicable value.

People in this forum tend to be hunters and weekend shooters. I know of not a single frequent poster who compete at the top level. So, for most people here, having access to several (mid to high end) scopes of the same class is simply too hard.

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

People just want different things. Dialing is certainly fashionable but not everyone is into it.

What people in this forum do not do is comparing scopes of the same class - scopes of similar price, weight, and magnification. The scopes Woody recently compared are essentially 4 different classes, not to mention not all of the same era. While it is a cool piece to read, it has little applicable value.

People in this forum tend to be hunters and weekend shooters. I know of not a single frequent poster who compete at the top level. So, for most people here, having access to several (mid to high end) scopes of the same class is simply too hard.

I get to look through and compare a large amount of high-end scopes as well as set them up and shoot them.
I'm not shooting comps at the moment but have done my share in the early days of longrange comps.
I am definitely more inclined to go for optics that do not need to use the elevation correction factor in the apps and are repeatable and can take a knock and not worried about Poi shift.
If it's getting to last light I just clip on my Nv007s and your good to go!

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Well from reading these replies, I've reached a conclusion that hardly anyone actually dials their scopes when out shooting!

Seems like most hunters are just using MPBR....."1 1/2 inches high at 100yds and that will do it".

I suspect very few of the forum members are actually carrying rangefinders.....therefore no rangefinder = no dialing. And if you are not dialing then you would not be interested in accurate turret tracking tests...."Just give me a good optical clarity at 5 minutes before dark test".

I'm always on my rangefinder and turrets....but then I'm not hunting in the bush.
How many members actually dial their scopes and use rangefinders?

Originally Posted by Hermitage

Well from reading these replies, I've reached a conclusion that hardly anyone actually dials their scopes when out shooting!

Seems like most hunters are just using MPBR....."1 1/2 inches high at 100yds and that will do it".

I suspect very few of the forum members are actually carrying rangefinders.....therefore no rangefinder = no dialing. And if you are not dialing then you would not be interested in accurate turret tracking tests...."Just give me a good optical clarity at 5 minutes before dark test".

I'm always on my rangefinder and turrets....but then I'm not hunting in the bush.
How many members actually dial their scopes and use rangefinders?

I do dial at the range and I am comfortable shooting sub moa at 600 yards, however it’s the wind that gets me. Hence I opt for closer shots when out in the field because I feel I can’t ethically kill at that range unless it is a dead calm day. Until I feel more confident judging wind, 300-400 is my limit. Maybe a kestrel will be my next purchase.

I always carry a rangefinder on me and have taken shots between 500-600 yards when the weather conditions are in my favour. Also think it’s important to carry a range finder because in some terrain it is hard to judge distances.

What ranges do you generally shoot at @Hermitage?

Originally Posted by Liam258

I do dial at the range and I am comfortable shooting sub moa at 600 yards, however it’s the wind that gets me. Hence I opt for closer shots when out in the field because I feel I can’t ethically kill at that range unless it is a dead calm day. Until I feel more confident judging wind, 300-400 is my limit. Maybe a kestrel will be my next purchase.

I always carry a rangefinder on me and have taken shots between 500-600 yards when the weather conditions are in my favour. Also think it’s important to carry a range finder because in some terrain it is hard to judge distances.

What ranges do you generally shoot at @Hermitage?

I have a 6.5 creedmore heavy barrelled rifle that I use with a Sightron SIII 10-50x60.

It's on rabbits to 700 yards so dialing accuracy is my number #1 criteria, which the SIII it gives.

But yes it is the wind that is the constraint to dialing effectiveness....even with Kelstal at hand.

ok so here is my IDEAL SCOPE...... magnification either fixed 4x or something like 2-7
large rear eye box..never realized how important this was till had 3 M8 4x scopes and compared them...the oldest,longest,biggest,heaviest is far and away the best.
doest shift poi over time or usage.....my leupolds hold zero period.....I dont dial so this is more important than ease of dialing....1/2" Vs 1/4" per click irrelevant IF you remember which it is.
good Xhairs....KISS principle here....duplex or post n rail that stops as rail....do like the circle around inner hairs found on some,or two dots on lower hair...no more than that much clutter.
FIELD OF VIEW...for a bush hobbit this is paramount....the four pigs I shot in under 10 seconds last week proove this out.at the 50 yards range ,I NEEDED quick target acquisition,EG you cant shoot what isnt in scope ,had mates with flash top end scopes who couldnt find deer in the tight bush in scope or track hopping wallaby as field of view was just too narrow.

bullet/knock/fog/shock/ME proof would be absolutely perfect but leupolds lifetime guarantee takes care of that...FOR ME.

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

ok so here is my IDEAL SCOPE...... magnification either fixed 4x or something like 2-7
large rear eye box..never realized how important this was till had 3 M8 4x scopes and compared them...the oldest,longest,biggest,heaviest is far and away the best.
doest shift poi over time or usage.....my leupolds hold zero period.....I dont dial so this is more important than ease of dialing....1/2" Vs 1/4" per click irrelevant IF you remember which it is.
good Xhairs....KISS principle here....duplex or post n rail that stops as rail....do like the circle around inner hairs found on some,or two dots on lower hair...no more than that much clutter.
FIELD OF VIEW...for a bush hobbit this is paramount....the four pigs I shot in under 10 seconds last week proove this out.at the 50 yards range ,I NEEDED quick target acquisition,EG you cant shoot what isnt in scope ,had mates with flash top end scopes who couldnt find deer in the tight bush in scope or track hopping wallaby as field of view was just too narrow.

bullet/knock/fog/shock/ME proof would be absolutely perfect but leupolds lifetime guarantee takes care of that...FOR ME.

I wager @Micky Duck that if you were to try one of those 1.5 - 9 x 45 Deltas, you would be converted. The reticle is really really fast 'target acquired'