What do Pig hunters want ?

So I am think of making another special in the range to go with the suppressed 410s etc. and I had a lot of pig hunters at the Sika show ask if my suppressed 410s are good for solids (they are just for shot). The question is what do pig hunters want if I were to make something suitably suppressed and is, as I suspect price a key issue.

If I were to make a dedicated solids single shot 410 with ported barrel and built in over barrel suppressor at around $1K or second option a cut down 38/357 (running 38 spl as its sub sonic) lever action with say the mag tube cut down to 5 and a reasonable over barrel can which would likely be getting on for $1,800 or so.

So what's the thoughts out there, cheap is best or happy to pay more for multiple shots ?

Any other comments welcome, though bear in mind I am looking at readily available base guns (Rossi) and making a few so nothing to complex/expensive.

oh boy are you opening a can of worms here.....
MY PERSONAL thought on it is a basic .410 or 20ga with SOME porting towards end of barrel and just a large over barrel tube to catch SOME of the blast..they want light,cheap and it has to be bomb proof....MOST pighunters I have hunted with believe cleaning a gun happens if it rains..the rain does the cleaning....
if you did away with most of your baffles/changed them to someting less efficent but more tough..maybe just devided chamber sort of like the delislie??? so blst going back into chamber through porting slows down...idea of porting only towards end being velocity will be up there for payload and you only capturing the blast past its use by date....
but you wont please them all.....my experiments with loading 44 magnum for them has proven that... too slow or too hard or loud or over penertrate or or or loaded hot and work REALLY well..but we want hollow points.... you just got to laugh.

same deal with rifle cartridge..short light and quiet....really basic bomb proof sights are good too...

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

oh boy are you opening a can of worms here.....
MY PERSONAL thought on it is a basic .410 or 20ga with SOME porting towards end of barrel and just a large over barrel tube to catch SOME of the blast..they want light,cheap and it has to be bomb proof....MOST pighunters I have hunted with believe cleaning a gun happens if it rains..the rain does the cleaning....
if you did away with most of your baffles/changed them to someting less efficent but more tough..maybe just devided chamber sort of like the delislie??? so blst going back into chamber through porting slows down...idea of porting only towards end being velocity will be up there for payload and you only capturing the blast past its use by date....
but you wont please them all.....my experiments with loading 44 magnum for them has proven that... too slow or too hard or loud or over penertrate or or or loaded hot and work REALLY well..but we want hollow points.... you just got to laugh.

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Great, thanks

Heavy projectile in 45 long colt would be a good option.
Way more whomph than a 410 and easy to suppress. And cheap to run.

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Originally Posted by 7mmwsm

Heavy projectile in 45 long colt would be a good option.
Way more whomph than a 410 and easy to suppress. And cheap to run.

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yeah and nah........ same as the 44 magnum.... Im starting to formulate recipe...for MOST of the bailed pigs you want lighter,more expandy projectile that wont over penertrate IF guy on trigger can poke it into brain...maybe need to get then to practise on base of beer can???
plus a seperate load which I refer to as the SHTF/get out of jail card...full noise heavy expanding that will still penertrate,thems for when your four legged mates are getting a hiding or boris just wont stop,poke it anywhere in front half and put him down fast to hell with meat damage or anything else..just put him down fast.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

oh boy are you opening a can of worms here.....
MY PERSONAL thought on it is a basic .410 or 20ga with SOME porting towards end of barrel and just a large over barrel tube to catch SOME of the blast..they want light,cheap and it has to be bomb proof....MOST pighunters I have hunted with believe cleaning a gun happens if it rains..the rain does the cleaning....AND MUD IS AN EXCELLENT LUBRICANT 🙂
.

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fixed your obvious omission

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

yeah and nah........ same as the 44 magnum.... Im starting to formulate recipe...for MOST of the bailed pigs you want lighter,more expandy projectile that wont over penertrate IF guy on trigger can poke it into brain...maybe need to get then to practise on base of beer can???
plus a seperate load which I refer to as the SHTF/get out of jail card...full noise heavy expanding that will still penertrate,thems for when your four legged mates are getting a hiding or boris just wont stop,poke it anywhere in front half and put him down fast to hell with meat damage or anything else..just put him down fast.

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Yeah nah.
Heavy 45 is way different to 44 mag. It will run close to sub sonic at full noise. Hence the easy to suppress comment.
If over penetration is an issue learn about firing zones.

Hi Mate
a real Wabbit hole you got going here hahaa
remember the old 303 you did for me and how well that worked .
maybe a copy of that design but in the cal. of that what the pig hunters like the best
and so the story continues seeya

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Originally Posted by AR7

Hi Mate
a real Wabbit hole you got going here hahaa
remember the old 303 you did for me and how well that worked .
maybe a copy of that design but in the cal. of that what the pig hunters like the best
and so the story continues seeya

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Yea I remember the 303 well ha ha but the thing with this is that it has to be affordable and the base gun and caliber have to be readily available in bulk from the wholesalers.

The pig hunters I knock about with change their minds on rifle / cartridges every time they screw up the shot and the pig rips up their dog(s).

I would be surprised if there was a specific rifle / cartridge option that would be worth making in any kind of numbers. My gang use everything from. 223 Rem to .44 Rem Mag. The most common concerns are (a) muzzle blast and turning young dogs gun shy, (b) rifle length, (c) ammunition availability. Stopping power is a weird one - a pig hunter will go hunt with a mate who uses a .223 and is a cool and calm shot in the bail, and now he wants a .223 as well. Until he messes it up and then he definitely needs a .44.

Last decent hunt I went on, the pig (very dangerous boar) was shot with a full power .44 Rem Mag (factory 240gr PPU) front on. Bullet hit the skull on the top far left side, took out the ear, knocked pig unconscious. Pig came round about 60 seconds later. Not good.

price length and weight is all they seem to care about

I think they need decent iron sights before a suppressor and I dont think many pig hunters care much about noise as the dogs/pig are already making a racket

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Originally Posted by Marty Henry

fixed your obvious omission

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Try telling that to your better half and see how you get on lol

The noise thing has changed.folk realise dogs ears last much longer without huge blasts of gunfire around them,hunters too.

Always thought a rifled 410 would be the perfect bail gun
But then again a rossi lever in 44mag or 357 mag is more than perfect aswell

Maybe buy rossi’s shorten the mag to 3 or 4 shots (plenty for a pigger)
That would move the tube out of the way so you can put a light weight suppressor on so you look after the dogs ears shorten the barrel as much as possible while still being able to suppress or be above 762mm whatever comes 1st

You have already answered your own question Daz, nothing to complicated or expensive, rifles going to have a hard life anyways.

Rossi's perfect, and simple.

You can buy a rifled .410 /45 long colt single shot break open. Harrington n Richardson survival gun. They would be perfect candidate. Load of 00 buck would fly true not doughnut one would hope,pellets being in line in .410 not bunched like 12ga.

If the firearm is to be used in the DOC estate shotgun cartridges aren't an option. Also have seen 410 slugs fail more than once, knew other who had the same experience, maybe poor ammo? Used 20 gauge with slugs for many years, always did the job. Used 44 mag in later years with subs suppressed, plus had full charge loads on hand.

You could do two
Single shot version and multi shot version (lever action)

A 410 slug only weighs about 80 to 90 grains so it's not a great hitter, it has about the same energy as a 22 magnum and I know a few piggers who use a shortened one of those. Fine up close and personal but not so good at any distance

most pig dogs dont really listen anyway so one single low speed 410 pop isnt enough of a problem for them to go looking for a solution

Iv got a friend who owns one of FSS's early super silent 410s and it impressed the hell out of me
my pig hunting mates were not that interested at all

they are really impressed with my suppressed 77/44 running 44special if money was no issue but they arnt perfect with their slow twist barrel either

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

yeah and nah........ same as the 44 magnum.... Im starting to formulate recipe...for MOST of the bailed pigs you want lighter,more expandy projectile that wont over penertrate IF guy on trigger can poke it into brain...maybe need to get then to practise on base of beer can???
plus a seperate load which I refer to as the SHTF/get out of jail card...full noise heavy expanding that will still penertrate,thems for when your four legged mates are getting a hiding or boris just wont stop,poke it anywhere in front half and put him down fast to hell with meat damage or anything else..just put him down fast.

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We’ve just always used Rossi 44 mag running 240 grain hollow points. Never had an issue. Nice and simple.
I thought if you wanted a nice simple setup you’d just run a single shot Bergara 44 mag

I'd say they want a pistol :D

one of my mates does run begera SS break open fitted with a DPT and its great..red dot on top, the other runs the wee ruger bolt SS synthetic unsuppressed also with red dot on top... both fellas shoot a lot of pigs..but I wouldnt call either a marksman. think a beercan would be very safe at 50 yards.

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Originally Posted by Gibo

I'd say they want a pistol :D

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Yep.
Ninety five percent of the time a rifle is a nuisance.

one really nice rifle for pig hunting is the lever action 44 mag Ruger but rarely come up for sale very sought after

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Originally Posted by Flyblown

The pig hunters I knock about with change their minds on rifle / cartridges every time they screw up the shot and the pig rips up their dog(s).

I would be surprised if there was a specific rifle / cartridge option that would be worth making in any kind of numbers. My gang use everything from. 223 Rem to .44 Rem Mag. The most common concerns are (a) muzzle blast and turning young dogs gun shy, (b) rifle length, (c) ammunition availability. Stopping power is a weird one - a pig hunter will go hunt with a mate who uses a .223 and is a cool and calm shot in the bail, and now he wants a .223 as well. Until he messes it up and then he definitely needs a .44.

Last decent hunt I went on, the pig (very dangerous boar) was shot with a full power .44 Rem Mag (factory 240gr PPU) front on. Bullet hit the skull on the top far left side, took out the ear, knocked pig unconscious. Pig came round about 60 seconds later. Not good.

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That's what pig hunting is all about, the excitement and fukups.

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Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

one really nice rifle for pig hunting is the lever action 44 mag Ruger but rarely come up for sale very sought after

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I happen to know where an unfired specimen is...but I dont have enough spare fun tokens to pries it out of owners grubby mits...

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Originally Posted by Flyblown

The pig hunters I knock about with change their minds on rifle / cartridges every time they screw up the shot and the pig rips up their dog(s).

I would be surprised if there was a specific rifle / cartridge option that would be worth making in any kind of numbers. My gang use everything from. 223 Rem to .44 Rem Mag. The most common concerns are (a) muzzle blast and turning young dogs gun shy, (b) rifle length, (c) ammunition availability. Stopping power is a weird one - a pig hunter will go hunt with a mate who uses a .223 and is a cool and calm shot in the bail, and now he wants a .223 as well. Until he messes it up and then he definitely needs a .44.

Last decent hunt I went on, the pig (very dangerous boar) was shot with a full power .44 Rem Mag (factory 240gr PPU) front on. Bullet hit the skull on the top far left side, took out the ear, knocked pig unconscious. Pig came round about 60 seconds later. Not good.

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yip beer can at 50 yards pretty safe LOL.....I have contemplated making up a heavy plywood pig shape with hole saw cut through brain area just big enough to fit a coke/redbull can end on...... right you buggers,knock out the can without rooting the plywood sort of deal.

Thanks to all who replied, certainly given me a direction to go in (or should I say 2).

I seems that both ideas are the way to go so I shall see what I can do with the single shot Rossi 410 to make a dedicated suppressed slug gun but there also seems a lot of interest in a lever gun (two people contacted me and have placed orders). As such I have ordered a Citadel in 357/38 (38 is sub sonic and 357 for more punch).

The plan is to cut the Citadel down to min legal length (maybe 3-5 rounds) and add a modified over barrel can and see how that goes, I have one guy who shoots deer at longer range and does not want to drag his long range gun with him when he gets the animal, as was mentioned people want a pistol, so this would be as near to a pistol as you could legally have.

Once again that to all who replied.

Cheers

Darren

This'll cover most of the maintence issues others have mentioned
Attachment 236534

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Originally Posted by Fssprecision

Thanks to all who replied, certainly given me a direction to go in (or should I say 2).

I seems that both ideas are the way to go so I shall see what I can do with the single shot Rossi 410 to make a dedicated suppressed slug gun but there also seems a lot of interest in a lever gun (two people contacted me and have placed orders). As such I have ordered a Citadel in 357/38 (38 is sub sonic and 357 for more punch).

The plan is to cut the Citadel down to min legal length (maybe 3-5 rounds) and add a modified over barrel can and see how that goes, I have one guy who shoots deer at longer range and does not want to drag his long range gun with him when he gets the animal, as was mentioned people want a pistol, so this would be as near to a pistol as you could legally have.

Once again that to all who replied.

Cheers
Darren

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Shit you’ll owe me royalties (jokes ofcorse )lol virtually just said what I said lol
Just used a citadel instead of a rossi
Should work perfectly though maybe work out some places you can make lighting cuts to make it lighter as well
The lighter and shorter the better eh even flute the barrel if you wanted to get really flashy

The answer is obviously .45-70. Fits in both lever action and break barrel. Has enough authority for any situation, and variety of projectiles.

If you port just-ahead of the chamber (rather than toward muzzle end of the barrel) you can easily bleed enough gas to make factory ammo subsonic.

A better option IMO would be to procure/make/sell loaded ammo.