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Greetings All,
I have been thinking of buying a new scope for one of my rifles. This would be for a maximum range of 500 metres or a bit less. Being a simple type of chap I would prefer a mil based holdover reticle in a FFP scope. Talking to a friend last night he was wondering about the same thing. Any thoughts?
Regards and thanks Grandpamac.
What are you shooting at?
These are deer rifles so it will be sika and the odd red.Quote:
Originally Posted by vulcannz
2-8 vx3i boone and crocket
Tried the whole high magnification / dial up thing....im just not clever enough!
Just get closer now and learn reticle.
is the question what mil ffp peiple use or specifically medium range? for my part i cannot see the significance of medium range since you are going for ffp. Isn't the whole point of ffp is that you have accurate hold at any magnification implying for any distance?
a 2-10 or 2 or 3 -12 or 3-15x - plenty to choose from. What's the budget ?
Have not thought about budget but thanks for your input on scope power. My bolt action hunting rifles all have fixed power scopes currently.Quote:
Originally Posted by chainsaw
Regards GPM.
A 2 1/2-8*36 leupold with b&c reticle is ideal out to 600. However, if you intend shooting in near dark dawn dusk then you tend toward 44-56 front lens with good coatings. 2-10*50 good for that but bulky.
Each to their own i guess, but for me when shooting deer at 500 yards or more i like to have every bit of precision I can, that means a reasonable amount of magnification, and I like to dial the elevation turret to allow for the drop.
Trying to use holdover subtentions at 500 yards is just too vague for me. You are always guessing trying to hold halfway between two hash marks etc, then you have the confusion in the heat of the moment about which hash mark you are supposed to be holding on, it's just too messy for my liking. Dialing for distance really isnt that hard to setup and perform, when shooting at that distance you normally have well enough time to range, check dope chart or Ballistic app and dial the correction onto the turret and then hold the cross hair where you want to hit, either holding or dialing on a wind correction as well.
Trying to hold over for elevation and hold off for wind at the same time is just double messy.
The red yearling I shot at 597 yards on Friday evening, i had my scope wound up to the max of 20x and even thou the ret has a lovely little fine floating dot in the centre, i tell ya what the animal is still fairly small in the scope. I use to use a 16x scope on the 7mm Saum, and that extra mag up to 20x sure helps place that crosshair where you want it when out around 500 yd plus.
This is what I have found to work very well for me anyway.
I quite like the Sightron S-Tac 4-20 that im running on my 7mm SAUM, fantastic value/performance for the money. So much so that i have another two of them in transit. CameraLand NY have them on special currently for USD $299.99 each. Crazy cheap.
My father inlaw runs a couple of these on his rifles that he's competing in 1000 Target shooting with and hes right up there with the top shooters with gear that's worth WAY more.
If you think 4-20x50 is too much scope, they are also doing the 4-16x42 S-tac at the same price. It has the MOA-3 ret, so subtentions in moa which you can use to hold over with on the closer stuff and maybe dial for the longer stuff. These scope dial rock solid.
https://cameralandny.com/shop/sightr...iation=3072538
They also do a FFP S-Tac in 4-16 with mil ret, but its a little more $, but not much more.
Not mil or FFP, but my favorite scope is my Leupold VX3i 2.5-8x36 with S1 dial.
It's zeroed at 200m, and iirc the single turn dial limits out at 500-550m for my standard load (308win, 178 ELD-X leaving at 2560fps).
Good info, Thanks for that @Woody.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
GPM.
@grandpamac A lot of the selection will come down to how good your eyes are ,I hate over scoped top heavy guns, my current 2 favorite scopes on my all round guns are the Loopy VX3i 2.5-8x36 with S1 & one l have kept for years & swapped on to various rifles l like that much is my old NF 2.5-10 32 compact ,that now sits on the 284W l just had built, on the rifles maiden hunts it took a Chammy at 635mtrs after a mate thought his shot had passed through & hit it & a Red Stag at 45mts running at us through the bush during the roar.
There is one for a good price on the forum now -
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....-scopes-77866/
If the intention is mostly Sika and the odd red I'd select towards a Sika environment suitable option ie excellent light gathering, good field of view.
My choice would be something like a Swaro Z3 3-10 x 42. Certainly something Swaro.
3x for murky thick bush, 10x for longer but realistic legging it.
Like you GPM I came into the game where a lot of shooters were still using irons. 4x were my first scopes (Pecar, Nickel and a K4 Weaver).
I had no issues even shooting Thar at reasonable ranges with them. Eyes were a lot better back then of course.
I too hate behomath large objective lensed scopes on a sneak around the bush type rifle. Leave those scopes for my F Class stuff.
It might be worth considering the Vixens for optical value, weight and compactness? 1" tube, the 3-12 is what I chose recently. Amazingly light and compact by current standards. Japanese manufacture. Yup, not a Swaro but good value..
VX5-HD 3-15x44
[QUOTE=GWH;1251869]Each to their own i guess, but for me when shooting deer at 500 yards or more i like to have every bit of precision I can
I personally think any hunter (if I can use that term)
That makes a decision to take an animal needs to consider the animal also
To attempt a "clean Kill" shot at 400 - 500m + meters is not called for - IMO
Yes - it appears to be the fad of late on U-Tuber's etc
But they will never show the F - ups
Even if a slight back in gut shot is retrieved and dispatched - what timeframe to get to it and find it ???
No
Just walk a bit closer ah
Want to be a Sniper - go join that brigade in Middle East
bog std 3x9x40-50mm it is what has worked for me for years,the fixed 4x is awesome scope and comes up very well BUT even I have to admit the 3x bottom end slightly edges it for field of view up close...not by much but it is there.I can count on one hand the deer Ive shot past 300 yards..but all have dropped to single shot.
Trying to order from camerlandny at the moment but having issues with their website and getting it to accept my card. Any clues appreciated!Quote:
Originally Posted by GWH
In my little experience I have found a ffp scope rubbish for everyday hunting unless you are shooting past 100m all the time. The crosshsirs are too fine for me to see.
[QUOTE=Sarvo;1251953]The original poster asked about scopes for shooting deer to a max range of 500m, and was talking about using holdover marks on a reticle to do that - Hence my reply talking about shooting deer at that kind of distance.Quote:
Originally Posted by GWH
He didn't ask for info on scopes for shooting deer at short ranges in the bush, yet most of the answers/recommendations he's getting are more suited to that in my opinion.
Too many people 'talk' about shooting animals at these types of extended ranges, when in reality they cannot even hit a 500mm x 500mm steel plate at 300 yards. I've lost count of the number of times I've witnessed guys trying to shoot my gongs at the range.
Once you go beyond the PBR of any centrefire, so many people have no idea what the trajectory/drop is doing. Accurately hitting something at 400 to 500 yards is a lot harder than many 'normal hunters' think it is. In reality, if you have a good understanding of trajectory and how to use even average gear, the elevation drop side of it really isn't that hard.
LR hunting may not be for you, thats fine. We all have our choice. I spent plenty of time in the bush shooting deer up close inside 30 yards when i first started. Nowadays, i prefer to sit on a vantage point, let my eyes do the walking so to speak, and I enjoy the science and challenge of making a shot that the average hunter cannot.
Over the last few years, I've been doing this, I've seen an awful lot more animals and been able to shoot them in places that you would normally struggle too if you had tried to stalk in close to them, ie when you are down in the scrub with them you wouldn't see them, or they would have heard or smelt you coming long before you laid eyes on them. So basically im shooting them in places that you cannot walk closer too.
As i said eariler 'each to their own'.
I wouldn't worry about getting a FFP scope either, with most variable scopes I find in practice that I only ever use the top and bottom end of the range. i.e. for a 3-9 I leave it on 3 when walking and stumbling onto game and push it up to 9 when I see game before the game sees me and I am shooting at distance.
I can say almost to a certainty that there will never be a time where you are using subtension holdover and a lower setting at the same time. So if you want to use a ballistic reticle it can be RFP and just use it at highest magnification and be done with it.
As an aside, below is a photo of how I put on a dial chart on the scope on my .22
Just set the chart up in Excel and make the cell fill colour black, text colour orange,yellow or white. print out the chart (it may take some trial and error to get the cell size and text size right) and cut it out and then put clear sellotape over top of it to hold it in place and keep the weather off it.
Attachment 184257
I use a 2.5-10 power SFP for my medium range rifle and serves me well for wind holds on the reticle at max power. Also do like FFP for 100m+ shots if you need pin point accuracy because the reticle finer and a wide field of view on a lower magnification setting, plus the wind holds on the reticle can be used on any magnification which makes things simple.
After 3-5k S&B PM2,T96,Z8i,NF ATACR seen the light and use a Leupold 3.5-10 with CDS easy
fast and light and no herrendous 34mm tube or in excess of 30 ounces. Rifle in my hand not dragging on the ground or slung on back.
Many deer and the odd pig are not liking the combination this year
Hi Grandpamac
I have had a few, spent thousands on Schmidt Bender PMII, Nightforce NXS (nice glass but make better boat anchors)
I wanted the same as you but found the ffp cross hair was too big at distance and covered the target.
Average glass at 10 power is half as effective as good glass at 10 power
I settled on a Leica ERi 2-10x42. Very clear on animals out to 500, it has a very simple elevation turret, and practically light. I have had similar experiences looking through mates Swarovski glass. In my opinion you would need 14+ power in a leupold to get the effective clarity on target as 10x of the Leica or Swarovski.
Doing the research is half the fun, enjoy the process.
Greetings and thankyou one and all,
Your replies have been most useful. I note that a lot of the preferences are for lower power ranges than I was expecting with a lot of votes going for 2.5 to 8 power. Scrambling through thick bush is currently, and will likely remain beyond me but being able to drop down magnification from my 6 and 10 power scopes would be an advantage. Please keep the suggestions coming.
Many thanks Grandpamac.
@grandpamac I would take a good look at the Schmidt & Bender 4-16x50 with BDC (names have changed, called 'Precision Hunter'/'Long Range' and 'Varmint' at different times, now just called the 'Klassik'). They are FFP with side focus and usually have either the P3 (Mil-Dot) or A7 (German Post) reticles.Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
Downsides are long length, tunnels from 4-6 power (I only ever leave mine down on 6 power and turn up from there) and probably a bit expensive if buying new.
Plus sides are build quality, good glass clarity and light transmission, reliable yet low profile single turn turret with 0.05mil clicks for super precise adjustments which will get you out to 500m (with a cartridge/rifle combo that has over 3,000 fps at the muzzle) and very good factory service.
https://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/p...0-klassik.html
The 2.5-10 NXS with Velocity 600 reticle might suit you. There were three models released, LV MV and HV but I’ve only ever seen MV here. I had one on a 300WM and with a 200m zero, the holdovers were pretty much bang on out to 600. There’s one for sale, unclear if it’s MV.
https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....-scopes-77866/
$$$ but I've had a scope or two in the past and this thing just does everything and does it very well. Don't miss the extra mag of a 15x or 18x Leupold etc as the glass is just so much better, was shoulder shooting hares at 400m+ the other evening with longest one being 538m. Mine has the 4A-IF reticle but you can also get them with a ballistic reticle if you want to shoot out far without the turret
Attachment 184266
I love my Nikon Monarch 3, 2-8x35 BDC. I use Strelok for the drops, if I go out for a day I write the major drops on my arm/wrist in sharpie. The only dial setting I use is when switching to subs.
Far be it from a relative newbie like me to give you advice, but I'm with @GWH and the others who have recommended higher magnification ranges. I remember reading a couple of articles recently advocating for running variable scopes at around 70% of max. I found my old VIII 3.5-10 to be on the low side at longer ranges. Perfect for an all-purpose rig, but if you've got other rifles for this and you're setting this one up for longer ranges then I'd go higher.
I also personally wouldn't use holdover for anything over 300m - dialling is not difficult and you usually have plenty of time to range, check drops and dial. Something like the CDS system may be a good way to simplify this even more, but personally I want the flexibility to change loads and then you need the charts anyway.
With the above in mind, I put a Meopta Meopro 6-18 x 50 on my 7mmWSM and I love it. Glass and build quality is fantastic for the price-point. There's one on here for the same price I paid for mine - can't believe no one has snapped it up yet: https://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co....e-scope-77563/ Someone mentioned light-gathering, and this scope is awesome at first & last light. I don't find it too bulky, but then I have a laminate stock so my rifle is pretty heavy anyway and I have the .243 for other situations.
I've found that as I've got older and my eyes are not as good I find the extra mag easier for the longer shots.
I've gone from a swovski 3-9 to z5 3-18 and vz5 3.5-15 and now to a Delta titanium 4-24 and Z8 2.5-18.
The Z8 is on my do all hunting and range rifle and it's an amazing scope.
Sent from my CPH1903 using Tapatalk
I had a similar requirement a few years ago.
Was dead set I wanted something 2-12 with holdover and middle finger to dialing.
Then. Then I got a VX5HD 2-10 zl2.
Standard duplex.
I got my first handloads going. Which are one inch higher than the factory stuff I was using.
Now I've learnt to dial and have set my zero a little bit further out than I did in the past. 240y for my 308 in question. It means basically anything to 325y its point and shoot.
Another scope I'd look at would be a Burris Signature HD 2-10 which has both a standard duplex or their e3 reticle.
The one thing to come out of my experience is that I'd rather much pay for a optically superior scope with less magnification than one with more magnification and optically inferior lenses etc for the style of hunting I do.
Hope this is of use to ya
I picked up an Athlon Helos 2-12x42 and it's damn near perfect for what you are after, it's a cheaper scope so the glass isn't as good as a VX5/6 but is probably on par with the VX3.
The locking turrets work as advertised, the FFP reticle is pretty well sized so it's usable on 2x and 12x, and it has Mil hold overs if you don't want to dial.
The problem is manufactures usually make the reticle to thin, it may look nice at 20x but at 3x they just disappear in low light.Quote:
Originally Posted by country cuts
There are a few lower powered FFP scopes that have a reticle that is appropriately sized and they work great.
The Vortex PST 2.5-10x32 is such a scope, works great on 2.5x even well past sun set and the illumination goes dim enough to give you a few more minutes until it's pitch black.
When using the scope spotlighting I use illumunation all the time but during the day and first/last light it's seldom necessary.
This is the way to goQuote:
Originally Posted by Ryan_Songhurst
I chase Sika a lot and find my Swaro Z6 2,5-15x44 to be ideal. However I use this scope in the south island for tahr & chammy as well
Slight thread jack
I see the 2-8×36 leupold popped up a couple of times and they always go like hot cakes when they come up for sale.
What makes them so good?
If you're often a bush hobbit and never go out beyond say 350yds, then they are fine. Compact and very light. I have one on my Bushpig and a 3.5-18 Z5 on my .280 AI LR rig.
