Weaver 2-7x28 on my CZ452. Brilliant little scope.
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Weaver 2-7x28 on my CZ452. Brilliant little scope.
mine wear anything from 4x40 Tascos on a couple of semiautos which i use out to 75yds ish but not much these days . . . out to 200-300yds on steel targets i use 6.5-20 Leupolds on light and heavy barrelled Quads - longest kill on Hares 208yds
my mate uses a tactical Bushnell on his CZ varmint - longest kill on a varmint 280yds
some great shooting to be had with a .22 from cheap as chips to big boys toys prices . . . as shooters we've never had it so good
I have a diverse range of optics on .22's
From cheep bushnel t25 red dots, aimpoint h1,fixed 4x lepolds(fantastic value second hand), trijicon 1-4,Leopold rimfire target scope (my favorite),bushnel 10x , and a z3.
As I shoot more with .22 than centerfire and in often poor light I feel it's worth using good optics if you can justify the expense.
Have used the army's trick of a ringbinder reinforcing sticker to deal with parallax on some and some have had them adjusted. Of course some where made for .22 or are adjustable so not a issue for those.
Some of my friends make fun of a .22 with a scope on it that cost more than the rifle even if they do the same for there centerfires, for me it's a pride of ownership thing as well as I think in most cases the optic is the most important part of the package, followed by ammo and then how fancy the rifle is.
I cringe at friends with $800 rifles who only spend $50 on the cheapest scope they can find if they consider it a long term thing.
If I was in a tight budget a jw15 with a second hand fixed 4x of good quality would probably be my choice-it's what I used from 10-22years old and the setup is still going strong in daily use by my uncle over a decade later.
Wow I wrote a novel, I really am procrastinating from what I should be doing
That's good shooting. I couldn't hit a rabbit past 50m.Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgetman
What I meant was that for that 50 to 100m range a 17HMR would be better (have to admit I haven't used one myself but those that have say so...)
So, I was purely talking about using subsonic ammo which I reckon is the forte of the .22LR now.
Hey gadgetman, what .22LR ammo are you using at 100 metres?Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgetman
My Brno No. 4, with barrel shortened by a previous owner, wears a Leupold Euro 2-7x33 with a Leupold Euro reticle (basically a No. 4 reticle with Heavy Duplex dimensions). The scope works equally well for target work and small game.
My CZ452 fully wooded has a Kahles C4x with 7A reticle (basically the Kahles equivalent of Leupold Heavy Duplex).
My Brno 611 has a Weaver 6x, with parallax set to 75 yards.
Don't underrate the 22.
From bench testing over 100 makes and models, most 22 rifles are well capable of popping bunnies at 100 if shot in properly with their preferred ammos. Rifle price is often an indicator of quality, but not necessarily of accuracy. Some comparatively cheap 22s will shoot under 1" groups at 100m, and a $247 Norinco EM332 I had with a huntsman 3-9x AVERAGED 0.6" for four consecutive groups at 100m. I have no trouble popping sub 1" groups with quite a few makes eg marlin bolts/semiautos and JW15s - and that means very dead bunnies at 100m.
The right ammo for your 100 meter shooting is the ammo that shoots best off the bench after testing 8-12 different types through any given rifle. Sporter rifles will often shoot just as well with the right high velocity ammo as they will with subs (excluding match ammos here). Here's some pics of just 2-3 standard barrel 22s off the bench - absolute sharpshooters, cheap as chips (all under $250) and with inexpensive optics:
Three .22 sharpshooters
You can choose to spend up on a 22, but in fact you don't need a $600 scope plus $1000 rifle. Just pick one of the good accurate rifles, pop a reliable scope on it and spend some good bench setup time.
I was shooting at those ranges with @mudgripz pretty early on in my career using the cheap PMX subs I got off @crnkin. The little Norinco I bought for the kids also loves that ammo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
Bore sighted the Norinco and a 5 shot the group off the dot at 50m. Then twiddled the doofers to adjust onto the 24mm dots and shot another 5 shot group.
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/a...psf2689b1d.jpg
Then onto the next dot for another 5 shot group.
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps847677e0.jpg
This is all at 50m with a little 4x32 Huntsman scope (I think that's the name on it).
Woah have you still got some of those PMX's?
They were awesome, but I used them in a few months.
Chris
Yeah, still got about a brick left. That stuff is brilliant. Decided it was so good I'd hang onto the rest for target practice and switched to Fiocchi, that works almost as well, for hunting.Quote:
Originally Posted by crnkin
Aguilla is the other stuff I had that shoots amazing.
Ive got a few hundred of those left, mainly cos I like the smell of the primers.
Text incoming too.
Chris
I have a Burris Full Field 11, 2-7 x something with a ballistic type reticle on my CZ 452-2E
seems to work pretty well.
That excellent Aguila Superextra HV of 3-4 years ago is virtually identical to Fiocchi blue packet. Both made in Industrios Technos Mexican factory, same specs, looks to be same pill, and almost identical POI on range. Fiocchi HV excellent ammo in the right rifle.
Checked it earlier and it is a Nikko Sterling Gold Crown 4x32.Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgetman
Nikon prostaff rimfire 3-9×40 BDC on the bolt action, good to 100m on rabbits, but it is an accurate rifle. And a Nikon rimfire 2 -7×32 on the semi. Yet to shoot this much so will reserve judgement but smaller, lighter, clearer and brighter than the Bushnell AR it replaces.
My .22lr ('s) are my most unused guns. My main one wears a Mueller Tac II 3-10x44. Have dialled it successfully to 200m.Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage1
who did you get to adjust the parallax on your scopes?Quote:
Originally Posted by res
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kscott
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Kahles 4X36 no shots past 75 as paid to kill not scare.
Whilhelm arms and optics in Christchurch and Leopold, you can do it yourself but I would rather pay a professional on relatively high cost scopes as the cost is low and there work is covered by the cgaQuote:
Originally Posted by Feather or Shoot
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You should nail bunnies consistently at 75m with a 22. An accurate 22 model with its best ammos and a good shooter should group 1" and under at 75m - and that's very dead bunnies.
Gadgetman and I belong to a casual shooting team that has enjoyed great bunny sites over the last 10-11 years here in Canterbury. On one farm we have popped over 1000 in an evening a couple of times (6-7 hours shooting) and the average shooting distance we once calculated was 70 meters. With well set up gear we would not expect to miss at 75m - or 100m. The right 22 - grouping round 1" at 100m - will nail bunnies at 75 -100 very well. We weren't leaving them scared... :)
The key is preparation and practice. Experiment then choose only the super accurate rifles, then do the full ammo testing process to find each rifle's optimum performance ammo, tweak your rifles to have actions/triggers smooth, and have the 22 shot in for precision grouping at 75m (if shooting longer range). Also important to note that just a good rifle and scope alone won't necessarily make for accurate shooting - alot of hunters are actually not very good shots. It is invaluable to spend quality time on a range, and preferably getting some coaching from very experienced shooters. Just a couple of sessions on rifle setup and positional pressures etc can make alot of difference.
In the late afternoons when walking in our own seperate designated blocks we would sometimes see who could shoot 100 bunnies quickest. Mine was a reasonable 108 bunnies in 95 minutes free standing and off bipod, but depending on blocks other boys were certainly quicker. I think gadget - the tinny bugger - got the record at 100 in 37 minutes. Now this kill rate is all AVERAGING 70 meters - and very very few bunnies got away.
Can be done with a 22 - they can be a precision little weapon, an absolute wee sniper with the right setup and practice.
Was that with subs and suppressors? I find I shoot a lot more if I'm not towing someone with a loud rifle. I only shoot subs.
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If your on at 75 your four inches high at 50, who knows at 100, for me anyway that is to chancey. For me doing it every day it puts to much chance into it, better to grab the .223 and deal to it.
Interesting that you guys shoot offhand, I can count the times I do that in a year on one hand.
Some of the boys use subs and some HVs.
For me I shoot all the 22s in with HV at 75 meters. This means they are shooting about 1" high at 25m, 2" high at 50m, smack on at 75m, and about 4-5" low at 100m. With subs the margins are higher. It is no trouble remembering the margins as you shoot, and the boys had very high strike rates. 110m is the max I shoot with the 22s - some people shoot further with rangefinders etc.
We have usually walked blocks in the late afternoon- often the broken ground - so both offhand and bipod shooting comes into it. If you ever have the opportunity you sit or bipod. Once its fully dark we have often continued to walk areas with strong headlamps and the Maxtoch spotties, but we end up in the set up 4x4s driving big areas with 22, 223 and 12 guage.
These days after hard shooting, the recurring virus and pindone poisoning, our block numbers are well down so a good night shooting may be 65 bunnies/hares. And a piggy or a red... Mostly now with lower numbers we shoot from the trucks or occasionally bikes.
22 rifles that won't cost too much and generally shoot sub half inch 5 shot groups at 50m (a good benchmark) include: CZ 452, Brno, Marlin 925/980 bolts, Marlin 60 and 795 semiautos, Norincos JW15 (most of them) and EM332, Toz 78. From owning/developing 6 in various stages and benching more for friends, the least accurate 22 of all makes and models tested is the standard Ruger 10/22. Very poor - though occasional ones ok depending where Ruger sourced barrels at the time. Some of the little euro 22s can also be very accurate - Krico, Voere etc but issues when it comes to parts. And the Sakos, Weihrauch etc are real gems, but if you shoot often there is always the reality about damage from bike/truck etc. Recently sold an absolutely beautiful brace of Winchester 9422 levers - one in 22 and one in 22WMR - and that was simply because I knew they would eventually be marked up with lots of shooting.
Heaps of scopes have gone through the cupboard. I found the chinese ones can in fact shoot very well on a 22, but are more likely to crap out over time. From this for our own setups we decided the bottomline level would be Nikko Stirling (never had a dud), Bushnell (one dud), and if you can still get them - Mueller. Again these don't cost much but with a sharp 22 will allow very reliable distance shooting. If you've got a Weaver of Vortex etc available by all means use that.
He, he. Ended up on 109 over about 45 minutes. All off hand. No misses.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudgripz
With shooting good numbers regularly soon got to gauge distance pretty well and it was a 95%+ strike rate out to 110m. Out to 75m was generally a head shot and beyond that was chest shot.
Luck. Nothin' but luck..... :)
Next time I won't shoot your bloody rifle in for you...
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by mudgripz
That's very good shooting. I'm way too wobbly to shoot off hand at those sort of distances. Bipod or shooting sticks when the grass is long. The rabbits where I shoot generally let you get close. Also I use a range finder for the longer shots to make sure and print a drop chart off the nikon spot-on website for the BDC reticle. Bit of mucking around but works for me and reduces variables.
That is some impressive shooting. As off hand as I get is with a camera tripod.
As someone already said, my 22 ends up wearing my centrefire hand me Downs. Which are now better than I went out and brought on my first new and shiny 22
Well thought out and articulated post. Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagheera
I would like to add my 2 cents worth.
Most 22LR hunting will be on rabbits, possum, magpie, myna and rosella. Against possums, while the target is larger you need better shot placement for a clean kill. So in my view you actually need more magnification than large animal hunting (except 300m + tahr shooting sort). You need a scope that can let you comfortable place something the size of half a coke can on the crosshair. For me personally 9 power is the minimum. Ideally 12-18. When I go rabbit shooting, I take 10x. When I go possum shooting, because I sneak up possums up close often, I use 3-9. 6-18 can be difficult.
For indoor club shooting, 12 power is the minimum. Most clubs have something on the target that is smaller than your finger nail. you will see most seasoned shooters use Leopuld VXIII 6.5-20 EFR.
I have tried several times with a 4x on 22LR, it never worked for me, regardless of the application.
I'd probably agree with Bagheera more although I don't think I'll ever put a fixed power on my 22. For me it's striking a balance between field of view, and magnification. A 2-10 would be ideal for me as the lower power is better for scanning hillsides for rabbits and trees for possums, it is also ideal for the quick and moving shots that make up a large percentage of my rabbit shooting. The higher power accommodates any longer range shooting I'm likely to do, which for me tops out at 80m. Anything past that gets the 22-250 that is usually resting on my back.
Due to the crepuscular habits of rabbits light transmission is key for me. So I'd rather put a 50mm objective on my rifle if that is what it takes, I'd even consider putting a swaro on it. I'd also rather a first focal plane mil-dot reticle for windage and elevation adjustments rather than a dial.
I'm unsure on how important parallax is. I understand it, but have never had any problems with it.
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