Welcome guest, is this your first visit? Create Account now to join.
  • Login:

Welcome to the NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed.

Night Vision NZ Alpine


User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 47
Like Tree72Likes

Thread: Who would still buy MOA over MIL and why?

  1. #1
    A Better Lover Than A Shooter Ultimitsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Less than 130 km from the sea
    Posts
    642

    Who would still buy MOA over MIL and why?

    Is there still anyone who would buy MOA/MOA scope over Mil/Mil scope? If so why?

    Preferably a reason that is not "always used MOA/don't understand Mil".

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tauranga
    Posts
    2,599
    Places where the target system scores and relates to MOA such as FTR. Trust me converting Mils to MOA when someone is giving you windages and elevation in MOA and you are converting it in your head is just one more level of thinking you dont need.
    zimmer, shooternz, 6x47 and 4 others like this.

  3. #3
    Member chainsaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Norf
    Posts
    5,775
    my brain is wired in moa. As @Mauser308 states you get a finer adjustment with moa. Regardless of which you choose you must calibrate/validate for scope dial up adjustments.
    veitnamcam, GWH, 6x47 and 3 others like this.

  4. #4
    ebf
    ebf is offline
    Mushroom juice ! Hic ! ebf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Above the Hutt
    Posts
    6,872
    Quote Originally Posted by Mauser308 View Post
    1/4MOA is a lot finer adjustment than 0.1MIL?
    Nope
    Viva la Howa ! R.I.P. Toby | Black rifles matter... | #illegitimate_ute

  5. #5
    A Better Lover Than A Shooter Ultimitsu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Less than 130 km from the sea
    Posts
    642
    1/4 MOA is 0.7 cm at 100m. 0.1mil is 1cm at 100m, 3mm difference, or less than 1/9th MOA. It makes no difference to anyone but bench rest competition shooters. If it matters that much there are MIL scopes with 0.05mil adjustment.
    ebf, Moa Hunter and T.FOYE like this.

  6. #6
    ebf
    ebf is offline
    Mushroom juice ! Hic ! ebf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Above the Hutt
    Posts
    6,872
    Quote Originally Posted by Mauser308 View Post
    Yes. Do the math. And the further out you get the finer it gets. And if that doesn't work for you, get an 1/8MOA scope.
    @Mauser308, the "math" is a lot more complex than you actually think...

    As stated, one measure is roughly 6.35mm at 100 yds. The other is 10mm at 100m. Massive difference, right ?

    Well, not really. because most people shoot projectiles that are around 6mm or more in diameter.

    VERY FEW people can actually shoot well enough to consistently keep 10 shots within a 1 MOA ring. Don't believe me ? Go look at top level F-class scores, and tell me how many 60's are shot all day long at varying ranges.

    Now you start to add something called dispersion, the random fall of your shot within the group.

    When you look at the size of movement of the center of your group by either 1/4 MOA or 1/10 MRAD, the difference between the two becomes almost meaningless.

    People may think they are actually moving individual shots around by fractions of a MOA or MRAD, but they are kidding themselves....

    P.S. I've shot F-class for New Zealand, and did use an 1/8 scope, but mainly for elevation, not windage.
    Trout, Dama dama, lau lau and 4 others like this.
    Viva la Howa ! R.I.P. Toby | Black rifles matter... | #illegitimate_ute

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    South Canterbury
    Posts
    1,524
    OK, humour me here. Does 1 moa equal one inch at 100 yards? So my 1/4" @100y scope is Moa?

  8. #8
    ebf
    ebf is offline
    Mushroom juice ! Hic ! ebf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Above the Hutt
    Posts
    6,872
    Quote Originally Posted by Mauser308 View Post
    Go out 1000m/1000yds. Then count the difference between the adjustments. Compounding errors.

    Next problem is cheaper FFP scopes (usually what you get with Mil) are generally garbage in terms of manufacturing accuracy as well, it's not great. Not much of an issue in minute of man applications which is what created the Mil system as the logical development of Mildot reticles but if you are using something as a LR bunny rig one click is an entire bloody rabbit. Ask me how I know this.

    It's the difference between real world and the artifical environment of the target range, target ranges are usually flat for one.
    riiiiight.... I'll count the number of guys shooting 1/4 moa scopes at the next long range or ELR steel match I go to, and report back
    Viva la Howa ! R.I.P. Toby | Black rifles matter... | #illegitimate_ute

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Tasman
    Posts
    1,818
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimitsu View Post
    Is there still anyone who would buy MOA/MOA scope over Mil/Mil scope? If so why?

    Preferably a reason that is not "always used MOA/don't understand Mil".
    Only if there was no MRAD option in a particular scope model/price point.
    Really only an issue on the cheaper end of the spectrum. Say a cheaper dial-able scope for a .22 that isn’t offered in a MRAD option. The Nikko Stirling Diamond Long Range comes to mind.
    Last edited by Moutere; 06-12-2021 at 07:02 PM.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Hawkes Bay
    Posts
    2,607
    Quote Originally Posted by RUMPY View Post
    OK, humour me here. Does 1 moa equal one inch at 100 yards? So my 1/4" @100y scope is Moa?
    In theory, an MOA equates to 1.047" @ 100yds, Ignoring that weird number, some scopes are calibrated in "inch minutes", ie, 1" @ 100yds. The vast majority aren't what they claim, hence the need to check if you're really serious about long range precision.
    Konev, zimmer, chainsaw and 2 others like this.

  11. #11
    Member zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Waikato
    Posts
    4,986
    Quote Originally Posted by RUMPY View Post
    OK, humour me here. Does 1 moa equal one inch at 100 yards? So my 1/4" @100y scope is Moa?
    1 MOA @ 100yds = 1.047 inches.

    Then you've got the issue where some scope turrets are marked in, eg 1 click = 1/4 MOA, whilst others are marked 1 click = 1/4 inch. And obviously there are also 1/8 click scopes.

    I'm in the MOA camp due to a background in NRA Fullbore, F Class and FTR shooting.
    I have no trouble understanding MRAD it's just isn't appropriate when shooting at electronic target systems (Silver Mountain and Target Master) in use in NZ which are all set up in MOA grids.

    Edit: Ha, beaten by 6x47
    Micky Duck and RUMPY like this.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    South Canterbury
    Posts
    1,524
    That 1.047 number looks familiar with machining. Something to do with converting inches to mm.

  13. #13
    Member zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Waikato
    Posts
    4,986
    Quote Originally Posted by RUMPY View Post
    That 1.047 number looks familiar with machining. Something to do with converting inches to mm.
    You're thinking of 25.4.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    South Canterbury
    Posts
    1,524
    No, just checked, 0.03937 inch equals one mm.

  15. #15
    Member zimmer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Waikato
    Posts
    4,986
    Quote Originally Posted by RUMPY View Post
    No, just checked, 0.03937 inch equals one mm.

    Ah, yes and no.

    1/25.4 = 0.03937

    1" = 25.4 mm
    1mm = 0.03937and a few zeros and other numbers"

    25.4 is an easier number to remember and then you either divide by it or multiple by it to convert.
    Moa Hunter, RUMPY and schwen like this.

 

 

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Welcome to NZ Hunting and Shooting Forums! We see you're new here, or arn't logged in. Create an account, and Login for full access including our FREE BUY and SELL section Register NOW!!