Thread: Who would still buy MOA over MIL and why?

Is there still anyone who would buy MOA/MOA scope over Mil/Mil scope? If so why?

Preferably a reason that is not "always used MOA/don't understand Mil".

Places where the target system scores and relates to MOA such as FTR. Trust me converting Mils to MOA when someone is giving you windages and elevation in MOA and you are converting it in your head is just one more level of thinking you dont need.

my brain is wired in moa. As @Mauser308 states you get a finer adjustment with moa. Regardless of which you choose you must calibrate/validate for scope dial up adjustments.

Originally Posted by Mauser308

1/4MOA is a lot finer adjustment than 0.1MIL?

Nope

1/4 MOA is 0.7 cm at 100m. 0.1mil is 1cm at 100m, 3mm difference, or less than 1/9th MOA. It makes no difference to anyone but bench rest competition shooters. If it matters that much there are MIL scopes with 0.05mil adjustment.

Originally Posted by Mauser308

Yes. Do the math. And the further out you get the finer it gets. And if that doesn't work for you, get an 1/8MOA scope.

@Mauser308, the "math" is a lot more complex than you actually think...

As stated, one measure is roughly 6.35mm at 100 yds. The other is 10mm at 100m. Massive difference, right ?

Well, not really. because most people shoot projectiles that are around 6mm or more in diameter.

VERY FEW people can actually shoot well enough to consistently keep 10 shots within a 1 MOA ring. Don't believe me ? Go look at top level F-class scores, and tell me how many 60's are shot all day long at varying ranges.

Now you start to add something called dispersion, the random fall of your shot within the group.

When you look at the size of movement of the center of your group by either 1/4 MOA or 1/10 MRAD, the difference between the two becomes almost meaningless.

People may think they are actually moving individual shots around by fractions of a MOA or MRAD, but they are kidding themselves....

P.S. I've shot F-class for New Zealand, and did use an 1/8 scope, but mainly for elevation, not windage.

OK, humour me here. Does 1 moa equal one inch at 100 yards? So my 1/4" @100y scope is Moa?

Originally Posted by Mauser308

Go out 1000m/1000yds. Then count the difference between the adjustments. Compounding errors.

Next problem is cheaper FFP scopes (usually what you get with Mil) are generally garbage in terms of manufacturing accuracy as well, it's not great. Not much of an issue in minute of man applications which is what created the Mil system as the logical development of Mildot reticles but if you are using something as a LR bunny rig one click is an entire bloody rabbit. Ask me how I know this.

It's the difference between real world and the artifical environment of the target range, target ranges are usually flat for one.

riiiiight.... I'll count the number of guys shooting 1/4 moa scopes at the next long range or ELR steel match I go to, and report back

Originally Posted by Ultimitsu

Is there still anyone who would buy MOA/MOA scope over Mil/Mil scope? If so why?

Preferably a reason that is not "always used MOA/don't understand Mil".

Only if there was no MRAD option in a particular scope model/price point.
Really only an issue on the cheaper end of the spectrum. Say a cheaper dial-able scope for a .22 that isn’t offered in a MRAD option. The Nikko Stirling Diamond Long Range comes to mind.

Originally Posted by RUMPY

OK, humour me here. Does 1 moa equal one inch at 100 yards? So my 1/4" @100y scope is Moa?

In theory, an MOA equates to 1.047" @ 100yds, Ignoring that weird number, some scopes are calibrated in "inch minutes", ie, 1" @ 100yds. The vast majority aren't what they claim, hence the need to check if you're really serious about long range precision.

Originally Posted by RUMPY

OK, humour me here. Does 1 moa equal one inch at 100 yards? So my 1/4" @100y scope is Moa?

1 MOA @ 100yds = 1.047 inches.

Then you've got the issue where some scope turrets are marked in, eg 1 click = 1/4 MOA, whilst others are marked 1 click = 1/4 inch. And obviously there are also 1/8 click scopes.

I'm in the MOA camp due to a background in NRA Fullbore, F Class and FTR shooting.
I have no trouble understanding MRAD it's just isn't appropriate when shooting at electronic target systems (Silver Mountain and Target Master) in use in NZ which are all set up in MOA grids.

Edit: Ha, beaten by 6x47

That 1.047 number looks familiar with machining. Something to do with converting inches to mm.

Originally Posted by RUMPY

That 1.047 number looks familiar with machining. Something to do with converting inches to mm.

You're thinking of 25.4.

No, just checked, 0.03937 inch equals one mm.

Originally Posted by RUMPY

No, just checked, 0.03937 inch equals one mm.

Ah, yes and no.

1/25.4 = 0.03937

1" = 25.4 mm
1mm = 0.03937and a few zeros and other numbers"

25.4 is an easier number to remember and then you either divide by it or multiple by it to convert.