Is there still anyone who would buy MOA/MOA scope over Mil/Mil scope? If so why?
Preferably a reason that is not "always used MOA/don't understand Mil".
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Is there still anyone who would buy MOA/MOA scope over Mil/Mil scope? If so why?
Preferably a reason that is not "always used MOA/don't understand Mil".
Places where the target system scores and relates to MOA such as FTR. Trust me converting Mils to MOA when someone is giving you windages and elevation in MOA and you are converting it in your head is just one more level of thinking you dont need.
my brain is wired in moa. As @Mauser308 states you get a finer adjustment with moa. Regardless of which you choose you must calibrate/validate for scope dial up adjustments.
Nope :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mauser308
1/4 MOA is 0.7 cm at 100m. 0.1mil is 1cm at 100m, 3mm difference, or less than 1/9th MOA. It makes no difference to anyone but bench rest competition shooters. If it matters that much there are MIL scopes with 0.05mil adjustment.
@Mauser308, the "math" is a lot more complex than you actually think... :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Mauser308
As stated, one measure is roughly 6.35mm at 100 yds. The other is 10mm at 100m. Massive difference, right ?
Well, not really. because most people shoot projectiles that are around 6mm or more in diameter.
VERY FEW people can actually shoot well enough to consistently keep 10 shots within a 1 MOA ring. Don't believe me ? Go look at top level F-class scores, and tell me how many 60's are shot all day long at varying ranges.
Now you start to add something called dispersion, the random fall of your shot within the group.
When you look at the size of movement of the center of your group by either 1/4 MOA or 1/10 MRAD, the difference between the two becomes almost meaningless.
People may think they are actually moving individual shots around by fractions of a MOA or MRAD, but they are kidding themselves....
P.S. I've shot F-class for New Zealand, and did use an 1/8 scope, but mainly for elevation, not windage. ;)
OK, humour me here. Does 1 moa equal one inch at 100 yards? So my 1/4" @100y scope is Moa?
riiiiight.... I'll count the number of guys shooting 1/4 moa scopes at the next long range or ELR steel match I go to, and report back ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauser308
Only if there was no MRAD option in a particular scope model/price point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimitsu
Really only an issue on the cheaper end of the spectrum. Say a cheaper dial-able scope for a .22 that isn’t offered in a MRAD option. The Nikko Stirling Diamond Long Range comes to mind.
In theory, an MOA equates to 1.047" @ 100yds, Ignoring that weird number, some scopes are calibrated in "inch minutes", ie, 1" @ 100yds. The vast majority aren't what they claim, hence the need to check if you're really serious about long range precision.Quote:
Originally Posted by RUMPY
1 MOA @ 100yds = 1.047 inches.Quote:
Originally Posted by RUMPY
Then you've got the issue where some scope turrets are marked in, eg 1 click = 1/4 MOA, whilst others are marked 1 click = 1/4 inch. And obviously there are also 1/8 click scopes.
I'm in the MOA camp due to a background in NRA Fullbore, F Class and FTR shooting.
I have no trouble understanding MRAD it's just isn't appropriate when shooting at electronic target systems (Silver Mountain and Target Master) in use in NZ which are all set up in MOA grids.
Edit: Ha, beaten by 6x47
That 1.047 number looks familiar with machining. Something to do with converting inches to mm.
You're thinking of 25.4.Quote:
Originally Posted by RUMPY
No, just checked, 0.03937 inch equals one mm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUMPY
Ah, yes and no.
1/25.4 = 0.03937
1" = 25.4 mm
1mm = 0.03937and a few zeros and other numbers"
25.4 is an easier number to remember and then you either divide by it or multiple by it to convert.
Herd of, a Country Mile, now there s a country inch:wtfsmilie:
What next a bakers dozen?
Might as well throw this in as well -
For instance there are artillery sights and compasses with 6,400 NATO mils, 6,000 Warsaw Pact mils or 6,300 Swedish "streck" per turn instead of 360° or 2π radians, achieving higher resolution than a 360° compass while also being easier to divide into parts than if true milliradians were used.
Ive changed two scopes over to mill mill and i love it. the reticles are better imo. With the .2 mrad sub tensions. the maths is very simple coming from a metric. I like moa for target shooting but its not impossible to work out the distance. no reason you cant run both. i havnt stuffed up yet.........
I myself like moa for hunting because it's what I know. And in the event of quick math and quick setup I will be much better with moa . Also moa is smaller per click than mills . It's not much but at 1000 yards it works out to be 1 inch per click different. And for hunting I would rather take out every little bit of error out of the equation.
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The 3 main reasons I prefer MOA are
- is the same reason people still use feet and inchs for height. Inchs are way easier to imagine than millimeters or centimeters
- The math is simpler to do in your head instantly and apply partially due to above
- most cheaper scopes come in MOA and i would prefer all my scopes use the same measurements
unless you intend to twiddle n fiddle/dial up it matters not a flying fig ...once you are sighted in and rifle is zeroed.....its zeroed.if you dont stuff around with it all will be fine.
The less you play with your scope,the less ammo you waste.Moa or mil.
According to Scopeuout's page, at least some of the Diamonds are MIL scopes, although one reticle option is a half mildot which is a great way to confuse things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moutere
Mils is easier math.
Moa and iphy (inch per hundred yards) is not the same, and often incorrectly marked on moa scopes.
Meters is what most people are used to for distance, mils is easier math.
Who gives a fuck?
Strelok tells me how many “clicks” to dial. So do my little laminated drop charts. So I count my clicks. I can divide by 10 and I can divide by 4, so a value in one or the other is easy to convert to clicks. I flip-flop between the two, often on a daily basis, and it doesn’t matter. For example, my .22LR is Mil and my .223 is MOA, and I often carry them together when varminting, and dial both.
So I know where I’m at no matter whether it’s Mil, or MOA. Maybe I’m superhuman. Or maybe it’s not very hard…
If it is a long range shot I will adjust my elevation using the cheat sheet taped to my rifle('x' clicks for 'y' range), according to my rangefinder. That way it doesn't matter what the increments are so long as you follow the sheet. After that it is all done by observation and Kentucky windage. If it is 400 metres or less I just use Kentucky (and a little bit of experience). I have both MOA and Mil scopes on different rifles and the system works equally well for both.
That's because 90x45 is ex 100x50 its been dressed down . If you buy 4x2 its usually rough sawn . But stupidly enough on site we still call 90x45 by the name of 4x2 or 4 by twice if your from taihapeQuote:
Originally Posted by mimms2
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Whatever you do, avoid a MIL reticle and MOA turret scope (looking at you Leupold Mk4..., although some S&B PMII's had this 'feature' too!)
It's a hangover from early 2000's US military doctrine, and has aged about as well as early 2000's fashion trends...
Attachment 185358
Greetings All,
Anybody who has grown up in NZ and is under the age of about 60 has had their entire education in SI metric. At 70 plus I started in the UK units, used SI metric at school for physics in the mid 60's and then back to the old units until 1974 when we started using SI metric in architectural draughting. While still fluent in both I vastly prefer SI metric and all of my measuring kit other than my powder scales are metric. Once you work in metric the old UK units look archaic, especially when scrambled with US units. Only two of my scopes have 0.1 mrad clicks, one only approximate (1/3MOA). Any new ones from here will be 0.1 mrad. Some seem to have got mil and milliradians scrambled in their minds, one milliradian (mrad allways all lower case) is 100mm at 100 metres where one mil is 98 mm at 100 metres. Scopes are likely all mrad regardless of what is engraved on the dial.
Regards Grandpamac.
or 2 by 4 if you're from 'merica
MOA and Subways for hold just works so well together
Moa or Mil for me its simply a measurement that the phone works out for what I do can happily change between them all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by 199p
But aim a subway high is still the go two, only gets confusing if the shooter is thinking 6 inch instead of a philipo foot long
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Doesnt bother me, currently use Mil, doesnt sound as cool in meters though yards sounds furtherer
MOA because im too long in the tooth to be bothered learning new tricks :)
The fashion has aged better than Britney.Quote:
Originally Posted by caberslash
I shoot both.
Hunting rifles are moa.
Comp guns are mil.
Only because thats what the majority of competitors use and makes shot calling easier.
I did my apprenticeship in an engineering shop on old machinery with imperial dials so I understand MOA, and until recently I've generally bought older quality scopes second hand (so they tend to be MOA). That said, I'd be equally happy with mil but in the interests of consistency across my rifles I just stick with MOA. It works for me so I see no need to change, but I've pushed my son down the mil path as he's most decidedly a product of the metric age (and if I use his rifle I can do the conversions in my head after years of doing it at work).
Any scale would work for me as long as the look-up table, corrections, and reticle subtensions were consistent. I don't use scopes for ranging though - or determining the size of targets. If I did then metric would surely be the more straightforward.
I can better the above-mentioned 0.85 error; how about 0.68x on a MOA Leica? Again, I could have worked with it, but it made me wonder what else could be wrong, so the scope was replaced.
I just bought my first imperial scope
after being a devout milrad fan for 10 years.
The reason, i bought a red dot for my
45-70 takedown (holosun 510c). It clicks at .5moa and im
absolutely fine with that. Basically
A full bullet hole per click for this cal.
I can manage about 15-20 shots of this thing
before im done for the day so im just
happy to be on the orange 1" sticker.
Attachment 186079
Attachment 186080
