Why are some Sellers not offering shipping?

I'm not sure why some private sellers of rifles in NZ state 'pick-up only'... it is restricting their customer base greatly.

On this very forum, there are two rifles I would be interested in but both state pick-up only.
However, I don't think the whole online process & shipping is a real hassle for the rifle seller, as it's the gun buyer that has to go to the Police Station and fill out paperwork.

For the gun seller it's 4 steps:
1 - Send name, address, FA l/c #, and gun serial # to the buyer via email.

2 - Sit back for up to a week for the completed & OKed 43a form to be emailed from the Police.

3 - Print the form out... or if no printer then copy the completed Police form onto a USB.

4 - Take the rifle, paperwork, and the $60 shipping fee (which the gun buyer has sent you) to a gun shop on the dealers' network (most shops do the packing for free).

Finished.

Once you have done the first one it's pretty easy... and you have a lot larger chance of getting a sale.
But maybe I'm missing the reason why some private sellers don't want to offer shipping??

All depends, if I sell a rifle and use the dealer network its a 1.5hr round trip to Cromwell (in working hours), that is lost time and diesel for me. In the good old days it was the local courier, so no hassle at all.

I suspect others may have similar time pressures or commitments that mean shipping isn't worth it.

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Originally Posted by Kimber 7mm-08

All depends, if I sell a rifle and use the dealer network its a 1.5hr round trip to Cromwell (in working hours), that is lost time and diesel for me. In the good old days it was the local courier, so no hassle at all.

I suspect others may have similar time pressures or commitments that mean shipping isn't worth it.

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Yeah fair enough...I sort of forgot all about you guys living 'way out there'. It would make sense for an expensive firearm to do the trip, not so much for the .22 farm hack.

With the closing of Shooters supplies the avenues for shipping has shrunk considerably for me and many others. Gun city only offer shipping between their stores.Also packing and delivery to a dealer with copies of paperwork and added costs $65 @ Gunworks and $75 @ Guncity make it less attractive.

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Originally Posted by Kimber 7mm-08

All depends, if I sell a rifle and use the dealer network its a 1.5hr round trip to Cromwell (in working hours), that is lost time and diesel for me. In the good old days it was the local courier, so no hassle at all.

I suspect others may have similar time pressures or commitments that mean shipping isn't worth it.

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This ↑, Its often a lot of dicking around compared to the old way.
I have finish early to get to a dealer before they close which cost me as paid by the hour.
Some dealers will charge for packing even if you box it up. Then you have to trust ARAMAX will actually do their bit in a timely manner.
For me no longer worth it.

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Originally Posted by mikee

This ↑, Its often a lot of dicking around compared to the old way.
I have finish early to get to a dealer before they close which cost me as paid by the hour.
Some dealers will charge for packing even if you box it up. Then you have to trust ARAMAX will actually do their bit in a timely manner.
For me no longer worth it.

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"Its often a lot of dicking around compared to the old way."

That's what I think is half of the problem. Sellers compare the 'easy old way' with the method now and think 'too hard'.

If you have a firearm that is over say $600 I still think it is worth shipping it. I live 45mins out of town but just communicate to the buyer that I will drop it off at H&F during my weekly visit... so he might have to wait a bit.
H&F is a one-off payment of $60 and they've done the packaging for free every time I've used them.

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Originally Posted by Hermitage

"Its often a lot of dicking around compared to the old way."

That's what I think is half of the problem. Sellers compare the 'easy old way' with the method now and think 'too hard'.

If you have a firearm that is over say $600 I still think it is worth shipping it. I live 45mins out of town but just communicate to the buyer that I will drop it off at H&F during my weekly visit... so he might have to wait a bit.
H&F is a one-off payment of $60 and they've done the packaging for free every time I've used them.

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I guess its a personal thing, I wont use Hunting and Fishing nor the other local guy on a matter of principle so would have to drive to the only other option.

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Originally Posted by Hermitage

I'm not sure why some private sellers of rifles in NZ state 'pick-up only'... it is restricting their customer base greatly.

On this very forum, there are two rifles I would be interested in but both state pick-up only.
However, I don't think the whole online process & shipping is a real hassle for the rifle seller, as it's the gun buyer that has to go to the Police Station and fill out paperwork.

For the gun seller it's 4 steps:
1 - Send name, address, FA l/c #, and gun serial # to the buyer via email.

2 - Sit back for up to a week for the completed & OKed 43a form to be emailed from the Police.

3 - Print the form out... or if no printer then copy the completed Police form onto a USB.

4 - Take the rifle, paperwork, and the $60 shipping fee (which the gun buyer has sent you) to a gun shop on the dealers' network (most shops do the packing for free).

Finished.

Once you have done the first one it's pretty easy... and you have a lot larger chance of getting a sale.
But maybe I'm missing the reason why some private sellers don't want to offer shipping??

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The biggest issue I have is safety with the new way.

As a seller, as you state I have to provide my Name, license, address and expiry to the purchaser BEFORE they can get the police form. How do I know as a seller that the person getting the information for the form will go to the Police station? How can I tell if they buyer is a gang member fishing for an address or a genuine buyer before I give him that information?

What I mean is if it is a gang member without a license, (and presume that I do not know this) then clearly he will be unsuccessful in getting the police form with the details I have to provide, HOWEVER with htose details I have to provide, said gang member can no 'pop round" to the address provided and collect all my guns ......

And secondly why do I need those details on a form sent to me as the seller? The form is to prove the buyer has a license. If I want to prove the seller has a license I will open my wallet and check it out. If I want to verify the sellers address I will go an check my letter box. This new system opens sellers up to a hole new level of risk just because some political numpty wants to make it safer.

I can fully understand why sellers dont ffer shipping. In some cases I wuld rather it not sell than deal with the police forms......

And dealer to dealer can be up to $85 or more....the dealers are allowed to charge whatever they would like. I dont disagree with that - it is their business providing a service and they are entitled to be paid for a service, but I can also choose whther I wish to deal with that.

To sell a rifle on Trade Me one does not need a FAL (unless that has changed recently), but you need to have given your FAL details to Trade Me to ask questions or to buy....when it comes time to pickup does one really care if seller has a FAL, seller can demand to see your FAL and no doubt buyer can demand to see sellers FAL, but there in front of you is the rifle you want and a pocket full of money burning a hole in your pocket and caution and legal obligations blows away in the wind.
I have a relative who travels all over NZ on a regular basis and I suggested to him about picking up firearms and delivering them as a side line to his business, of course for this he would need a FAL...we did a dummy run for a forum member picking up a rifle in the SI and bringing it to the NI, picking up the rifle in the SI my FAL was photographed by the seller but seller never offered his FAL for checking, something that has bugged me ever since so we never went ahead with offering a 'courier' service....'once bitten, twice shy'.

It's just too much messing around. I've sold and shipped once and that was enough. If I buy a firearm I prefer to pick it up anyway. Road trips are fun.

I guess the old easy way for buyers was to get the rifle they just bought couriered to them.
The new harder way is to go on a road trip for a pick up only rifle purchase.

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Originally Posted by timattalon

The biggest issue I have is safety with the new way.

As a seller, as you state I have to provide my Name, license, address and expiry to the purchaser BEFORE they can get the police form. How do I know as a seller that the person getting the information for the form will go to the Police station? How can I tell if they buyer is a gang member fishing for an address or a genuine buyer before I give him that information?

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You could also ask the buyer for their licence number and run it through the licence checker on the firearms saftey authority website to see if it is a valid number before giving them your details. Not 100% but is another tool to consider.

If you buy a rifle off me you can even try it out shooting in the back yard....or even take it for a hunt.

I personally don't offer shipping for fire arms, The low value of the ones I'm selling don't make it worth it, if I decide to sell everything I would reconsider that. Whenever someone comes to collect I will meet them somewhere as I don't want them to know where I live. And yes, This does restrict my buyer pool and drop the value.
Even with normal TM sales I don't give my full address until the day of collection and I have a confirmed pickup time. Early on in my TM days I gave a buyer my address and then had to muck around sorting out a time for him to collect, Doing it that way I may as inform him when I wasn't going to home.

For the likes of myself I have 2 main reasons for not purchasing a rifle using the new system.
First one is most of my recent purchases are cheap. If they weren't cheap I wouldn't have the shekels for them. Talking several hundred dollars.
Wacking 60-70 bucks on it makes it not so cheap. That's just me and wouldn't be such a deal breaker if the firearm was a thousy plus.
Second is that even though i have a cop shop 5 minutes walk away they don't have a front desk.
Rangoon coppers do but wouldn't do it for me a few years ago.
So I have to drive to Christchurch central to do a form. PITA. That for me now is a Saturday depending if I work that day or finish.
Where is the thought that the local rozzers could get to know me and what I might have like that ass hat Capill keeps wanking on about to justify rego.
The last one is minor. I see any of this paperwork as another method for obtaining details for registration and don't reckon they need help to make that work.
Mind you that is giving them some credit and actually doing it. Don't reckon they have done that in the past especially if they wanted to work out how many of the military style that they wanted squashed but pleaded ignorant to our fearless leaders

because the ship via dealer network is awesome BUT police forms make it an information gathering exercise pure and simple..there is eggzachary ZERO need for a police form to do this..ZERO
why??? because the fellas/fellesses at the stores HAVE TO sight firearms licence for person picking it up.....so the form is irrelevant
you could argue if it goes missing in transit the serial number is recorded...umm well it will already be recorded by the seller so nope no dice
its registration via default.

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Originally Posted by csmiffy

For the likes of myself I have 2 main reasons for not purchasing a rifle using the new system.
First one is most of my recent purchases are cheap. If they weren't cheap I wouldn't have the shekels for them. Talking several hundred dollars.
Wacking 60-70 bucks on it makes it not so cheap. That's just me and wouldn't be such a deal breaker if the firearm was a thousy plus.
Second is that even though i have a cop shop 5 minutes walk away they don't have a front desk.
Rangoon coppers do but wouldn't do it for me a few years ago.
So I have to drive to Christchurch central to do a form. PITA. That for me now is a Saturday depending if I work that day or finish.
Where is the thought that the local rozzers could get to know me and what I might have like that ass hat Capill keeps wanking on about to justify rego.
The last one is minor. I see any of this paperwork as another method for obtaining details for registration and don't reckon they need help to make that work.
Mind you that is giving them some credit and actually doing it. Don't reckon they have done that in the past especially if they wanted to work out how many of the military style that they wanted squashed but pleaded ignorant to our fearless leaders

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The last one is not minor.....

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Originally Posted by muzza

I believe that most buyers are honest people. If you truly wanted to remain anonymous then surely shipping via a member of the Firearms Dealers Network would keep your personal address secret from a buyer.

The whole world is not out to get you......

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True, I'm actually not as paranoid as it sounds.
Everyone from this forum has been great to deal with and I have no issues with them or almost everyone else, but I've had shit stolen before and just weigh up the risk vs a lower price when selling items. Not a big fan of the current data collection agency methods either.

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Originally Posted by DavidGunn

To sell a rifle on Trade Me one does not need a FAL (unless that has changed recently), but you need to have given your FAL details to Trade Me to ask questions or to buy....when it comes time to pickup does one really care if seller has a FAL, seller can demand to see your FAL and no doubt buyer can demand to see sellers FAL, but there in front of you is the rifle you want and a pocket full of money burning a hole in your pocket and caution and legal obligations blows away in the wind.
I have a relative who travels all over NZ on a regular basis and I suggested to him about picking up firearms and delivering them as a side line to his business, of course for this he would need a FAL...we did a dummy run for a forum member picking up a rifle in the SI and bringing it to the NI, picking up the rifle in the SI my FAL was photographed by the seller but seller never offered his FAL for checking, something that has bugged me ever since so we never went ahead with offering a 'courier' service....'once bitten, twice shy'.

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The law clearly states that a firearm cannot be given to someone who does not have a license. However, while it also states that someone must have a FAL to posess a firearm , it does not require the sellers license to be checked as the fact that they own it already SHOULD mean they have one. And the police form is a way for the seller to verify the new buyer has a license. Which is why it is sent to the seller.

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Originally Posted by NZShoota

You could also ask the buyer for their licence number and run it through the licence checker on the firearms saftey authority website to see if it is a valid number before giving them your details. Not 100% but is another tool to consider.

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Unfrotunately this is not accepted as a form of checking the license. Primarily because there is no way for you to check that the person who sent it is actualy the same person on the license. The details required are not hard to get....just buy a rifle on trade me or somewhere, get the sellers details for the police form (Full name, License number, expiry date and addres) then let the sale fall through without getting the form, probably cos the buyer does not have a license and wont be able to get a form anyway....and Viola...you have the details of a valid license with which to run through the checker....

The checker is really in place so dealers can verify that a license presented to them is still current and not cancelled for some reason....

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Originally Posted by DavidGunn

If you buy a rifle off me you can even try it out shooting in the back yard....or even take it for a hunt.

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I've done the try before you buy up at Pengy's place. Beats farting round with forms, police stations, waiting for ages then going into a shop any day. Then again there was a long gap between agreement and pick up.

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Originally Posted by DavidGunn

If you buy a rifle off me you can even try it out shooting in the back yard....or even take it for a hunt.

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I got my first centrefire the same way from a GC off the F&H forum, a good deal with a few helpful pointers thrown in.

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Originally Posted by muzza

I believe that most buyers are honest people. If you truly wanted to remain anonymous then surely shipping via a member of the Firearms Dealers Network would keep your personal address secret from a buyer.

The whole world is not out to get you......

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Its not the buyers that worry me...Its the ones that pretend to be buyers in order to obtain the information you are required to give them for the forms....And for the dealer to dealer network, you must have the form done. There is no anonymous with that....

And finally I agree that the whole world is not out to get us. It is less than 1%....but figuring out which is the 1% trying to get you is the challenge I use the same logic riding a motorcycle.....99% of people are not tossers when driving and will look for bikes etc...it is the 1% who could care less that will try kill a rider through negligence, but telling which car they are in is the challenge...

It's the sellers problem. Why make it yours....?

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Pure Hermitage.....ask a question, get discussion going then sit back n see what happens

...classic modus operandi....

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trit trot trit trot trit trot

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

trit trot trit trot trit trot

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Why is the sky blue?

Why are some people trolls?

What is this thing I just pulled out of my nose?


Why don't some sellers offfer complimentary tickets to the rugby?


The answer to all of these questions is in your "block" list hahaha

Some of you need to sort your shit out :redbullsmiley: this thread is now locked:x_x:

I'm not even going to begin wading into the bullshit of if someone is a troll or not, but ffs as pointed out by 308 if you don't want to see posts from a member add them to you blocked/ignore list if their posts effects you so deeply you can't resist the urge to stir the pot.

If you feed a troll it will eat, sleep and shit on your offerings. If you igmore it life goes on and the troll finds somewhere else to feed.
This is not a stab at the O.P just a general observation