As above, what would be your bolt-action rifle of choice and why?
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As above, what would be your bolt-action rifle of choice and why?
Lee Enfield, solely for the ten round mag and fast bolt.
In a hypothetical battle? Lee Enfield but would go Kar98k if that means I got a couple MG42 teams on my side.
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No5 Jungle Carbine. Short, light, 10 round mag and lots of fun
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I'm a fan of German stuff but would have to go with the LE for the reasons Steve123 mentioned.
Kar98 with a trench mag
Think you forgot the Swedish Mauser / Huskys. the 6.5x55 is class.
Had to go with the Mauser k98.
One of the best actions ever.
Cheers
Pete
I have one. Don't bother trying to hit a target beyond 100yds. A M38 Swedish is also short and light, but way more accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by clickbang
Some of the mausers are also short.
Looks like the Jerries and the Brits are facing off............
And the Yanks are late ........... Again ;)
Cheers
Pete
you missed all the best rifles however they are mostly from neutral country's (so I guess they don't count?) Sweden with the m96 and m38 both in 6.5x55 and Switzerland with the k31 and earlier the k11
in 7.5x55
being that I don't want to die Id hope I had one of them as that would mean I didn't have to go to war lol
this was with no load development with some not ideally suited pills I found in the reloading room
k31 at 100m they can do much better with load development excuse the silly face :D
Attachment 65729
out of the ones listed the k98 got my vote although it probably murdered plenty of innocent people under Nazis it is the nicest rifle ive owned from the list
I went with the Lee-Enfield for reasons listed above. Would of picked a Finnish M39, a Mosin on steroids but suppose that would fall outside of WWII?
I have to choose one of my Mosin M39s...
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...skynewBIGx.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...aightstock.jpg
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...f78/m39big.jpg
I'd have to agree regarding he accuracy. I don't use it very often further than 100yds. Still good fun all the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by scottrods
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Springfield for me. Arguably used a better cartridge than everything else at the time.
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Mosin all the way. Might only have a 5 shot mag, but with the noise my M44 made it has to have twice the power of the others as its twice as loud!!!!!!!! Besides, the Russian stuff simply worked. 10 degrees below zero? No problem...K98 frozen shut, Mosin wont be.....I love shooting the Mosin. Just puts a smile on the dial.. In saying that, my go to hunting rifle is a 303
Mosin by a mile, and the the sights do go that far. Only rifle thats a internet meme.
AR15: Your bayonet will do an alright job of butchering your kill if needed.
AK47: The bayonet doubles as a decent hunting knife.
Mosin-Nagant: Your bayonet can be used to spit roast an entire pig.
AR15: Nice and light for carrying over obstructions.
AK47: Handy package for carrying over obstructions.
Mosin-Nagant: You can pole vault over obstructions.
AR-15: Carried by elite special forces and highly-trained American soldiers
AK-47: Carried by illiterate peons and unwilling conscripts.
Mosin-Nagant-Nagant: Carried by Vassily Zaitsev.
AR15: Shot by the free world
AK47: Shot at the free world
Mosin-Nagant: Almost free to shoot
AR15: One inch groups at 100 yards.
AK47: Five to six inch groups at 100 yards.
Mosin-Nagant: Muzzle is one inch from target at 100 yards.
AR15: Invented 50 years ago by a consummate engineer
AK47: Invented 60 years ago by wounded tank sergeant
Mosin-Nagant: Invented 117 years ago by two drunks on a budget.
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/201...-mosin-nagant/
AK: It works though you have never cleaned it. Ever.
AR: You have $9 per ounce special non-detergent synthetic Teflon infused oil for cleaning.
Mosin: It was last cleaned in Berlin in 1945.
AK: You are able to hit the broad side of a barn from inside.
AR: You are able to hit the broad side of a barn from 600 meters.
Mosin:You can hit the farm from two counties over.
AK: Cheap mags are fun to buy.
AR: Cheap mags melt.
Mosin:What's a mag?
AK: Your safety can be heard from 300 meters away.
AR: You can silently flip off the safety with your finger on the trigger.
Mosin:What's a safety?
AK: Your rifle comes with a cheap nylon sling.
AR: Your rifle has a 9 point stealth tactical suspension system.
Mosin:You rifle has dog collars.
AK: Your bayonet makes a good wire cutter.
AR: Your bayonet is actually a pretty good steak knife.
Mosin:Your bayonet is longer than your leg.
AK: You can put a .30" hole through 12" of oak, if you can hit it.
AR: You can put one hole in a paper target at 100 meters with 30 rounds.
Mosin:You can knock down everyone else's target with the shock wave of your bullet going downrange.
AK: When out of ammo your rifle will nominally pass as a club.
AR: When out of ammo, your rifle makes a great wiffle bat.
Mosin:When out of ammo, your rifle makes a supreme war club, pike, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood.
AK: Recoil is manageable, even fun.
AR: What's recoil?
Mosin:Recoil is often used to relocate shoulders thrown out by the previous shot.
AK: Your sight adjustment goes to "10", and you've never bothered moving it.
AR: Your sight adjustment is incremented in fractions of minute of angle.
Mosin:Your sight adjustment goes to 12 miles and you've actually tried it.
AK: Your rifle can be used by any two bit nation's most illiterate conscripts to fight elite forces worldwide.
AR: Your rifle is used by elite forces worldwide to fight two bit nations' most illiterate conscripts.
Mosin:Your rifle has fought against itself and won every time.
AK: Your rifle won some revolutions.
AR: Your rifle won the Cold War.
Mosin:Your rifle won a pole vault event.
AK: You paid $750.
AR: You paid $2900.
Mosin:You paid $299.95.
AK: You buy cheap ammo by the case.
AR: You lovingly reload precision crafted rounds one by one.
Mosin:You dig your ammo out of a farmer's field in Ukraine and it works just fine.
AK: You can intimidate your foe with the bayonet mounted.
AR: You foes laugh when you mount your bayonet.
Mosin:You can bayonet your foe on the other side of the river without leaving the comfort of your hole.
AK: Service life, 50 years.
AR: Service life, 40 years.
Mosin:Service life, 100 years, and counting.
AK: It's easier to buy a new rifle when you want to change cartridge sizes.
AR: You can change cartridge sizes with the push of a couple of pins and a new upper.
Mosin:You believe no real man would dare risk the ridicule of his friends by suggesting there is anything but 7.62x54r.
AK: You can repair your rifle with a big hammer and a swift kick.
AR: You can repair your rifle by taking it to a certified gunsmith, it's under warranty!
Mosin:If your rifle breaks, you buy a new one.
AK: You consider it a badge of honor when you get your handguards burst into flames.
AR: You consider it a badge of honor when you shoot a sub-MOA 5 shot group.
Mosin:You consider it a badge of honor when you cycle 5 rounds without the aid of a 2x4.
AK: After a long day the range you relax by watching "Red Dawn".
AR: After a long day at the range you relax by watching "Blackhawk Down".
Mosin:After a long day at the range you relax by visiting the chiropractor.
AK: After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for a stiff shot of Vodka.
AR: After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for hotdogs and apple pie.
Mosin:After cleaning your rifle you have a strong urge for shishkabob.
AK: You can accessorize you rifle with a new muzzle brake or a nice stock set.
AR: Your rifle's accessories are eight times more valuable than your rifle.
Mosin:Your rifle's accessory is a small tin can with a funny lid, but it's buried under an apartment building somewhere in Budapest.
AK: Your rifle's finish is varnish and paint.
AR: Your rifle's finish is Teflon and high tech polymers.
Mosin:Your rifle's finish is low grade shellac, cosmoline and Olga's toe nails.
AK: Your wife tolerates your autographed framed picture of Mikhail Kalashnikov.
AR: Your wife tolerates your autographed framed picture of Eugene Stoner.
Mosin:You're not sure there WERE cameras to photograph Sergei Mosin.
AK: Late at night you sometimes have to fight the urge to hold your rifle over your head and shout "Wolverines!"
AR: Late at night you sometimes have to fight the urge to clear your house, slicing the pie from room to room.
Mosin:Late at night, you sometimes have to fight the urge to dig a fighting trench in the the yard to sleep in.
There you have it.* In the end, it is clear to any open minded inquirer that the Mosin Nagant is the most superior weapon of all time, but the AR and the AK come out as a draw when compared side by side.
Given that Sweden or Switzerland remained neutral during the war, they were not included as options.Quote:
Originally Posted by scottrods
Thats a shame as the Husqvarna / Gustav M96 6.5x55 is brilliant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan
Himmm just read through this, after likeing the Lee! It would have to depend on the battlefield!
Look at the Boars vs the English? The boars out shot them in distance.
But if it was WW1 and western front then it would be Lee and a very sharp spade!!! Once they came over the top and got in the trench beside you, a rifle is not much help. Start swing that spade. That sharp knife on the end is just going to get stuck in one side of the trench wall, and your opponent is going to do the same, out comes the sharp spade! Sorry only offices had pistols and swords where soon taken from them as they had a habit of wavering them around when they went over the top and turning them and anybody around them into easy targets :O_O: if your sniping then 300yards Max's so 8x57 is a good flat round for the time, latter on once the sepos joined the war sure 30'06.
All out attack defence back to the Lee 9 rounds in the mag good to go. (Yes it's a ten round mag but all where thaught to never load ten as it was prone to jam! Also most only every fired 5/6 in a fight)
WW2 again what battlefield? Africa? 303, 8x57
End of the day I think we would all chose the one that would be the most reliable and not jam.
Sure the Lee is fast to shoot, but if you load it wrong then your stuffed. Heat of the moment and that can happen.
8x57 30/06 Springfield is just a copy of the Mauser, they even paid royalties towards Mauser at one stage if I'm not mistaken.
So who wants a copy?
Nar it's all down to the 303 our the 8x57!
Ah, but the Finnish received 77,000 M96 rifles after the Winter War and Swedish Volunteer Units used them in the Winter War.... While they may not have been used by the countries that made them, they were in use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan
Too late to change the poll now so we can just reserve an honourable mention for the M96.Quote:
Originally Posted by fernleaf
there is a finish mosin on tardmeQuote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
I don't want any of them. Think I'll be a pacifist.
My vote would have been for the, ... (@Toby, don't look) the 6,5
I suppose when we consider all the various types of bolt action rifles used by all the combatants during WW2, there isn't really a whole lot to choose between them when used under combat conditions -
Sure the '03 Springfield was super accurate on the target range but was that long range accuracy of any use/benefit when being carried by a 19yo US Marine on Guadalcanal who could barely see a target five metres away or by a 57yo French Algerian Tiralleur in Tunisia with three days training under his belt?
Sure the Lee Enfield held ten rounds and thats great when you've got ten rounds in the mag at the start of a fight (and that could make all the difference). I recall my grandfather telling me that they very rarely loaded all ten rounds into their rifle magazines once a fight had begun, and just went with loading five rounds as it got you back shooting faster.
Mosins, 98ks, Arisakas, MAS36s, Carcanoes - they really are all much of a muchness under combat conditions.
Never having used any of the above in combat conditions, I couldn't possibly comment.
When do we get onto the semis of WW2?
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For me a Mauser just feels more reliable. The Lee Enfield is great speed and mag capacity wise, but using a rimmed cartridge can mess you up. I feel especially sorry for Soviet infantry issued with wartime production Mosins. Rimlock till the day you die. Which is probably day one on the Eastern Front.
i have handled all but the Mas . . . the winner by a huge margin is the 3006 03 Springfield, to me it is a riflemans rifle, followed a ways back by a 98, preferably of BRNO manufacture but German or Swedish Mausers are good ( to me )
the others i wouldnt thank you for.
Picked the MAS, as I really enjoyed the two I've shot. Would have picked a small ring mauser had the very very very biased bastard of an OP allowed the option ;)
G33/40 is on my bucket list. Have the parent rifle VZ 33. Superbly slick action.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy
This is true. Lee Enfield is also controlled round feed, something alot of people never talk about. I have seen guys at service rifle shoots get their Enfields locked up through a miss feed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauser308
Dunno about rapid-fire battle operation but those '03-A3 Springfields are seriously accurate. Here's a 10-shot group my US buddy fired out of his in a Mil Benchrest comp. Remember, this is an as-issued rifle including the V sights:
http://i316.photobucket.com/albums/m...pshybuidgk.jpg
I had a fellow do something similar to us atthe range. We were busy practising and trying top improve. We were shooting about 2 inches at 100 with a 6x36 scope on a modern 308. This dude rocks up with a factory standard unmodified Mosin 91/30 shoots a 5 shot group with open sights then gives up in frustration as he was still over an inch at 100 with his handloads.....I couldn't see the target with open sights let alone get 1 shot inside a 25mm circle.....Here he is walking off like he bought a lemon and we would have been happy with the same group on the same rifle at 25 metres let alone 100....!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by 6x47
I am an American and I have shot the SMLE #4, the German Kar 98, and U.S. 1903 Springfield WWII II variant with peep sight. HANDS DOWN...my choice would be the SMLE #4.....10 ROUND mag...quickest bolt operation...less felt recoil......tough as goats guts Kraut/Jap killer. I had one that was made in Pakistan. From a bench with sand bags it would shoot Remington FMJ to about the diameter of a tennis ball....
With 65 Y.O. eyes. I gave the rifle to my nephew and he is tickled with it.
Post Script: the Springfield was the most accurate.....but the SMLE was accurate enough for a G.I. rifle
The Springfield has to be it, you can't go past a good 30 06, damn good caliber either at war or on the game fields around the world.
What makes it a "rifleman's rifle?" exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by rossi.45
Basically an American unlicensed copy of a Mauser 1898? The Mauser K98 and its derivatives are the most produced rifle of all time. There are more people not breathing today because of the K98 / K98k than there are Springfield 1903s. I don't know, to me it carries a bit more pedigree as a "rifleman's rifle".
Not having a go, just saying.
For simplicity's sake, the poll options presented the most likely bolt-action rifles one would encounter during WW II otherwise we could spend all day sifting through archives and drip-feeding various types into the equation... Am pleased someone picked the MAS - it is an underrated rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy
