Climate

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Originally Posted by mopheadrob

Unfortunately, like many threads on here, it started out discussing the implications of a widely accepted premise on hunting, and quickly devolved into conspiracy theory and self-interested political rants.

I, for one, was thinking about this just the other day. Aside from bigger issues of resilience & adaptation, my ability to harvest wild game will become more critical as other sources of protein become increasingly expensive (fuelled on one hand by rampant population growth and on the other by increasing production costs as the industry is forced to introduce environmental impact mitigation measures).

How the animals I hunt will adapt to climate change is of much interest to me if I want to continue to be successful.

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Population growth and interference from the experts that live in Urban centres aside - You won't be able to tell, you haven't got enough time

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Originally Posted by Sidney

Yep..

its a longer list than that though....

how about...

3) Putting a price on Carbon will reverse carbon outputs

4) Even if it were possible to reduce human carbon emissions, no one can show the benefits that will result from the massive costs incurred.

5) Pretty much every predictive model created since the start of this hysteria has been wrong.

6) Long term high profile advocates and promoters of this hysteria have been proven to be wrong in relying on these predictions and no-one calls them to account. Seemingly gotten a lot richer though.

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It is easier to make people believe a lie than it is to get them to believe they have been fooled, that is for sure.

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Originally Posted by akaroa1

@grandpamac I applaud you for "putting your head above the parapets "

This is a hard discussion to have on an open forum, and it is a conversation that will be ongoing.

Some guys are clearly waiting for the end of the world as we know it, really soon.
Like all the other doom merchants over history who have predicted "the end of the world is neigh".

I personally like science as it tries to give credible answers to what we can and can't see around us.
I don't think science is the answer to all out problems, but it does give us scenarios for outcomes we might expect depending on how we do or don't react to that science.

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Greetings @akaroa1,
Thanks for that. I had spotted that climate change had not appeared in the various threads to date and thought it was something that needed airing. I anticipated the responses received but have a pretty thick skin so it was worth a crack.
Although the deer and other game may be resilient our roading network is not. Gabrielle all but destroyed road access to the Kawekas and 5 months later significant sections still have to be restored. Gabrielle also showed how at risk some of our other infrastructure is. Flooding in and around Napier was significant which makes me wonder what Napier will look like with the expected sea level rise. Houses I drive past on my way to town, recently constructed without thought about flooding, remain unoccupied and their eventual fate is unknown. The world and our understanding of it has changed and we must change with it or suffer the consequences. Quite agree that science can only supply the answers and it is the people and their Governments that have the key to dealing with them. Some problems only need a non asset solution.
Regards Grandpamac.

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Originally Posted by Sidney

100 years is a blink of eye.. appreciate that some people have real data, but recorded single events are not conclusive about a trend.

There were hotter periods in the 1930s...over the current "heat waves" in the US - nobody does that comparison, its not very convenient.

I have seen photos of people standing in the Waimak Gorge with no water in the river from the early 1900's. Pre irrigation and pre the climatic challenges that limit the current set of propagandists knowledge or reflection.

In the 1980s North Otago had almost 10 years of drought, there was hardly any snow on the ski fields for years. What do we blame that on? Saw a bunch a morons trying to say that this years lack of early snow was caused by "climate change" and was likely to be an ongoing problem if we can't save the planet. Pity they weren't around in the 1980s to save us then.

Niwa claimed recording flooding in Gisborne earlier in the year saying it was the most significant in recorded history. Wishart did 5 mins research and found 4 events that exceeded the most recent trauma and rainfall totals. Nina's own records that they used only went back to 2009 apparently - and that is seemingly all that is required before you can make these profoundly stupid and deceitful claims.

Do you seriously think that Banks Pennisular has never received more rainfall in other periods throughout the planets history, other that what your friends have recorded?

Stop presenting statistical outliers as indications of trend. Show me the trend in context.

Stop claiming science proves anything when the constant state of "science backed" media releases cannot understand the difference between an event and a trend.

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Well said Sidney.
But I'll add, I'll put a box of beer on it that not one structure that got damaged in the recent floods was on land that had never been flooded before.
All this "since records began" is the sort of stuff that should be restricted to school projects.
Anyone can stand on a hill over looking a flood/silt plain and see where the water has been up to previously. I'd trust my own eyes over records any day.

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Originally Posted by Bush Basher

Have a listen to Leighton Smith sometime if you want another view.

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The Australian-born former talkback radio host?? Really?

Im very happy to explore other perspectives but they need to be from credible sources.

The only thing that hasn't been quoted here thus far from the old covid conspiracy threads is "follow the money". Spare me. :)

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Well said Sidney.
But I'll add, I'll put a box of beer on it that not one structure that got damaged in the recent floods was on land that had never been flooded before.
All this "since records began" is the sort of stuff that should be restricted to school projects.
Anyone can stand on a hill over looking a flood/silt plain and see where the water has been up to previously. I'd trust my own eyes over records any day.

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Yep..

People standing in desperation on a flood plain wondering why the silt has destroyed their orchards? I sympathise... but its a flood plain. Did you seriously believe that it has never happened before? Its like having your children lecturing you on how to look after their children.:D

Perhaps if we didn't get our data from incompetents like Niwa, who like to be taken by surprise by everything that happens, we might have a population that understands risk a little better?

Teaching a population how to think instead of what to think would probably help as well

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Originally Posted by Sidney

Yep..

People standing in desperation on a flood plain wondering why the silt has destroyed their orchards? I sympathise... but its a flood plain. Did you seriously believe that it has never happened before? Its like having your children lecturing you on how to look after their children.:D

Perhaps if we didn't get our data from incompetents like Niwa, who like to be taken by surprise by everything that happens, we might have a population that understands risk a little better?

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I agree that in many situations the devastation (HB) was a natural consequence of where the assets were geographically, but that does not explain away the magnitude of the event or the increasing frequency of them. Anyone who is in touch with the natural environment, as hunters ought be, should to be aware of the subtle and not so subtle signs that things are not at all well. You are correct that none of us will live long enough to know the outcome but in the here and now I think we need to be taking action to mitigate the likely effects and damage. God knows how we will afford it. I am quite glad actually that I am leaving.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

I agree that in many situations the devastation (HB) was a natural consequence of where the assets were geographically, but that does not explain away the magnitude of the event or the increasing frequency of them. Anyone who is in touch with the natural environment, as hunters ought be, should to be aware of the subtle and not so subtle signs that things are not at all well. You are correct that none of us will live long enough to know the outcome but in the hear and now I think we need to be taking action to mitigate the likely effects and damage. God knows how we will afford it. I am quite glad actually that I am leaving.

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Generally we are leaving it to our children and grandchildren to deal with.

I think ( getting it back to hunting ) that our children and grandchildren will have a very different experience too us in the back country.
Invasive weeds and pests will move as ecosystems change with climate change.

Well,I thought I'd read about the quake in the royal commission but will have to look harder.
Info on weather manipulation however is volumous.
Should be fairly easy to find the film"The Dimming"
Or if one can search past the first page or 2 on google ,there are better search engines than google if you are looking for truth tho or outside of whats on tv.
the chemtrails,Haarpe,etc and the effects are easily researched.
The fact that none of you "outdoorsmen",farmers etc notice the chemtrails and their effects and the weird cloud formations,utterly astounds me.
I even see them in pix posted here.
Almost as astounding to me is those among you who want to sideline this info without even having a look for themselves.
I say again do none of you look up?
Why do "contrails" hang in the sky and spread wider and wider?
I thought they are just water vapour?
What?it's not on tv so it's not true?
I guess you all know cloud seeding was used in the vietnam war to try and interfere with vietcong logistics,
or that china used cloud seeding to wash it's cities before the olympic?games.
Ask anyone who's lived in china about cloud seeding/weather manipulation
tahrs quip about them needing to hurry up sums up the level of thought given by most.
We've all seen how readily just about entire populations do what they are told with no critical thought given,
What do you think the purpose of weather manipulation is?
Is it done to improve our lives or is it being done to forward an agenda?
Why the hesitance to consider weather manipulation?
Some of you are quite happy to accept "greta science" but ignore what happens in front of your faces.
When you don't have all the information you can't make an informed decision.
Your uninformed decisions affect all the rest of us.

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Originally Posted by Lurch

Well,I thought I'd read about the quake in the royal commission but will have to look harder.
Info on weather manipulation however is volumous.
Should be fairly easy to find the film"The Dimming"
Or if one can search past the first page or 2 on google ,there are better search engines than google if you are looking for truth tho or outside of whats on tv.
the chemtrails,Haarpe,etc and the effects are easily researched.
The fact that none of you "outdoorsmen",farmers etc notice the chemtrails and their effects and the weird cloud formations,utterly astounds me.
I even see them in pix posted here.
Almost as astounding to me is those among you who want to sideline this info without even having a look for themselves.
I say again do none of you look up?
Why do "contrails" hang in the sky and spread wider and wider?
I thought they are just water vapour?
What?it's not on tv so it's not true?
I guess you all know cloud seeding was used in the vietnam war to try and interfere with vietcong logistics,
or that china used cloud seeding to wash it's cities before the olympic?games.
Ask anyone who's lived in china about cloud seeding/weather manipulation
tahrs quip about them needing to hurry up sums up the level of thought given by most.
We've all seen how readily just about entire populations do what they are told with no critical thought given,
What do you think the purpose of weather manipulation is?
Is it done to improve our lives or is it being done to forward an agenda?
Why the hesitance to consider weather manipulation?
Some of you are quite happy to accept "greta science" but ignore what happens in front of your faces.
When you don't have all the information you can't make an informed decision.
Your uninformed decisions affect all the rest of us.

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Well, you did say that the grand plan will be complete by 2025

Generally we are leaving it to our children and grandchildren to deal with.

dead right,coz most are too weak to stand up to what they know to be wrong but will comply anyway for their own immediate comfort and convenience.
And too lazy to think outside their square,what they are told.
Your grandchildren won't be dealing with anything because you're giving away their freedom by your subscription to and compliance with nonsence

"Well, you did say that the grand plan will be complete by 2025"

Ah,not reading the words does make comprehension difficult
No,I said the INTENTION is to control weather worldwide by 2025.
How do you think the plan is going?

Attachment 229798
Attachment 229799

For those seeking to understand how some people think . . .https://www.apa.org/news/press/relea...iracy-theories

Is it not interesting how some people's ideology is based on such a flimsy foundation that they have to use derogatory terms like "conspiracy theorist" on people that express their doubts?

Interesting, one question who decides whats a conspiricy theory and what isnt. Ufos were a conspiricy theory but it we believe the current news....

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Originally Posted by Lurch

"Well, you did say that the grand plan will be complete by 2025"

Ah,not reading the words does make comprehension difficult
No,I said the INTENTION is to control weather worldwide by 2025.
How do you think the plan is going?

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I think the plan is shit and should be cancelled. Do you have any influence?

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Originally Posted by Tahr

I agree that in many situations the devastation (HB) was a natural consequence of where the assets were geographically, but that does not explain away the magnitude of the event or the increasing frequency of them. Anyone who is in touch with the natural environment, as hunters ought be, should to be aware of the subtle and not so subtle signs that things are not at all well. You are correct that none of us will live long enough to know the outcome but in the here and now I think we need to be taking action to mitigate the likely effects and damage. God knows how we will afford it. I am quite glad actually that I am leaving.

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You cannot change it. You can only cost the lives of those on hospital waiting lists, provide us with a poorer standard of education, provide a sop to those who think that batteries create less of an issue that existing supply chains do, and produce an increasingly larger group of poor people. We will continue to delude those children coming out of an already substandard education system with no grasp of statistical integrity, mathematical skill or critical thinking abilty; that we in some way are going to change an outcome that we cannot change, for no quantifiable benefit from the real costs on the most vulnerable in our societies.

Show me the outcome that will be achieved for the resources that are going to dedicated to it.

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Originally Posted by Sidney

You cannot change it. You can only cost the lives of those on hospital waiting lists, provide us with a poorer standard of education, provide a sop to those who think that batteries create less of an issue that existing supply chains do, and produce an increasingly larger group of poor people. We will continue to delude those children coming out of an already substandard education system with no grasp of statistical integrity, mathematical skill or critical thinking abilty; that we in some way are going to change an outcome that we cannot change, for no quantifiable benefit from the real costs on the most vulnerable in our societies.

Show me the outcome that will be achieved for the resources that are going to dedicated to it.

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The outcome that I was referencing was mitigating consequences of climate change, not the climate itself. Shifting properties and towns, bolstering protection, safeguarding vital infrastructure etc. Learning from others (the terrible fires on the continent and Canada) - learn and mitigate now.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

The outcome that I was referencing was mitigating consequences of climate change, not the climate itself. Shifting properties and towns, bolstering protection, safeguarding vital infrastructure etc. Learning from others (the terrible fires on the continent and Canada) - learn and mitigate now.

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Greetings,
All options will be costly including doing nothing. For some areas doing nothing will result in inundation and total loss.
GPM.

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Originally Posted by blip

Interesting, one question who decides whats a conspiricy theory and what isnt. Ufos were a conspiricy theory but it we believe the current news....

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If you don’t go along with the current narrative or have a different view you get shut down for being a conspiracy theorist. It’s their only defence because they can’t prove that their theory is right.

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Originally Posted by Bush Basher

If you don’t go along with the current narrative or have a different view you get shut down for being a conspiracy theorist. It’s their only defence because they can’t prove that their theory is right.

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History has shown that the over use of this term (above) is a reliable indicator.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

History has shown that the over use of this term (above) is a reliable indicator.

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Well that’s your opinion, and you know what they say about opinions.

Tahr..

I am not satisfied that the numbers of fires, the numbers of tornados, the numbers of natural disasters, the numbers of deaths from any or all has at all increased.

I suggest you read Steven Pinker's book called "Enlightenment Now" as a study into the role that sensationalist media has had in promoting the perception of doom and gloom across the board in all areas of our lives. The distortion between reality and what is perception across all manner of KPI is unlikely to not have had a similar effect in the area of the climate debate.

There are always issues. But as Pinker illuminates over the last 70 years most of the human experience has improved markedly to a factor of about 10 fold on what the reality was 70 years ago and yet the perception today is almost the complete inverse.

There are no more tornados, hurricanes, fires and flooding than were have ever been. There are less deaths from natural disasters currently than in the past 5-7 decades. The sea is not lapping at our doorsteps unless it always did. Fires might be more intense due to more availability of fuel on our greener planet - (a combination of a retarded bureaucracy not allowing fuel removal from populated areas and increased plant material from a reduction in wood burning, and increased CO2), but the actual number of fires is no more significant.

Watch that all change when they stop coal. Currently we have more trees on the planet than at any time in the last 200 years. Great fuel when you can't dig coal.

How many carbon credits does tonga have to buy to compensate the world for its volcano eruption :)

I remember Tahr making a comment about the Labour Party saying they will be in for 3 terms so we may as well get used to it!. People have opinions, doesn’t mean they are right, no matter how many fancy words they use. :)

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Originally Posted by Lurch

Well,I thought I'd read about the quake in the royal commission but will have to look harder.
Info on weather manipulation however is volumous.
Should be fairly easy to find the film"The Dimming"
Or if one can search past the first page or 2 on google ,there are better search engines than google if you are looking for truth tho or outside of whats on tv.
the chemtrails,Haarpe,etc and the effects are easily researched.
The fact that none of you "outdoorsmen",farmers etc notice the chemtrails and their effects and the weird cloud formations,utterly astounds me.
I even see them in pix posted here.
Almost as astounding to me is those among you who want to sideline this info without even having a look for themselves.
I say again do none of you look up?
Why do "contrails" hang in the sky and spread wider and wider?
I thought they are just water vapour?
What?it's not on tv so it's not true?
I guess you all know cloud seeding was used in the vietnam war to try and interfere with vietcong logistics,
or that china used cloud seeding to wash it's cities before the olympic?games.
Ask anyone who's lived in china about cloud seeding/weather manipulation
tahrs quip about them needing to hurry up sums up the level of thought given by most.
We've all seen how readily just about entire populations do what they are told with no critical thought given,
What do you think the purpose of weather manipulation is?
Is it done to improve our lives or is it being done to forward an agenda?
Why the hesitance to consider weather manipulation?
Some of you are quite happy to accept "greta science" but ignore what happens in front of your faces.
When you don't have all the information you can't make an informed decision.
Your uninformed decisions affect all the rest of us.

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Control the weather, you control the food. Control the food, you control the people.
I remember as a kid in the late sixties being told that the beeps we heard on the radio, similar to morse code, was the Russians trying to manipulate the weather.
@Tahr I find it disheartening that most of the people your age group I know all say the same. They are all pleased they are at the latter end of life.
I'm hoping I have quite a few years left. And I sure hope they improve compared to the last few.

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Originally Posted by Bush Basher

I remember Tahr making a comment about the Labour Party saying they will be in for 3 terms so we may as well get used to it!. People have opinions, doesn’t mean they are right, no matter how many fancy words they use. :)

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You might recall too that I qualified it by saying so long as Jacinda maintained her shine. That never happened. Words do matter.

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Originally Posted by Tahr

You might recall too that I qualified it by saying so long as Jacinda maintained her shine. That never happened. Words matter.

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Not sure about that part mate..

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Originally Posted by Sidney

Tahr..

I am not satisfied that the numbers of fires, the numbers of tornados, the numbers of natural disasters, the numbers of deaths from any or all has at all increased.

I suggest you read Steven Pinker's book called "Enlightenment Now" as a study into the role that sensationalist media has had in promoting the perception of doom and gloom across the board in all areas of our lives. The distortion between reality and what is perception across all manner of KPI is unlikely to not have had a similar effect in the area of the climate debate.

There are always issues. But as Pinker illuminates over the last 70 years most of the human experience has improved markedly to a factor of about 10 fold on what the reality was 70 years ago and yet the perception today is almost the complete inverse.

There are no more tornados, hurricanes, fires and flooding than were have ever been. There are less deaths from natural disasters currently than in the past 5-7 decades. The sea is not lapping at our doorsteps unless it always did. Fires might be more intense due to more availability of fuel on our greener planet - (a combination of a retarded bureaucracy not allowing fuel removal from populated areas and increased plant material from a reduction in wood burning, and increased CO2), but the actual number of fires is no more significant.

Watch that all change when they stop coal. Currently we have more trees on the planet than at any time in the last 200 years. Great fuel when you can't dig coal.

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Cripes, it will take the rest of my life to fact check all of that :) I will look at Pinkers' book. It might be the therapy I need.

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Originally Posted by Lurch

Well,I thought I'd read about the quake in the royal commission but will have to look harder.
Info on weather manipulation however is volumous.
Should be fairly easy to find the film"The Dimming"
Or if one can search past the first page or 2 on google ,there are better search engines than google if you are looking for truth tho or outside of whats on tv.
the chemtrails,Haarpe,etc and the effects are easily researched.
The fact that none of you "outdoorsmen",farmers etc notice the chemtrails and their effects and the weird cloud formations,utterly astounds me.
I even see them in pix posted here.
Almost as astounding to me is those among you who want to sideline this info without even having a look for themselves.
I say again do none of you look up?
Why do "contrails" hang in the sky and spread wider and wider?
I thought they are just water vapour?
What?it's not on tv so it's not true?
I guess you all know cloud seeding was used in the vietnam war to try and interfere with vietcong logistics,
or that china used cloud seeding to wash it's cities before the olympic?games.
Ask anyone who's lived in china about cloud seeding/weather manipulation
tahrs quip about them needing to hurry up sums up the level of thought given by most.
We've all seen how readily just about entire populations do what they are told with no critical thought given,
What do you think the purpose of weather manipulation is?
Is it done to improve our lives or is it being done to forward an agenda?
Why the hesitance to consider weather manipulation?
Some of you are quite happy to accept "greta science" but ignore what happens in front of your faces.
When you don't have all the information you can't make an informed decision.
Your uninformed decisions affect all the rest of us.

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Some of us do look up, quite often in fact. Thing is, it's different to the 'official" line.

I'm OK with what other people believe in. Some people struggle with what others believe in and think it's their way or not at all. Not so OK with that. Dare I say it, one or the other party will be correct. I just don't think we will be around to see it....

Sent from my SM-T225 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Sidney

Tahr..

I am not satisfied that the numbers of fires, the numbers of tornados, the numbers of natural disasters, the numbers of deaths from any or all has at all increased.

I suggest you read Steven Pinker's book called "Enlightenment Now" as a study into the role that sensationalist media has had in promoting the perception of doom and gloom across the board in all areas of our lives. The distortion between reality and what is perception across all manner of KPI is unlikely to not have had a similar effect in the area of the climate debate.

There are always issues. But as Pinker illuminates over the last 70 years most of the human experience has improved markedly to a factor of about 10 fold on what the reality was 70 years ago and yet the perception today is almost the complete inverse.

There are no more tornados, hurricanes, fires and flooding than were have ever been. There are less deaths from natural disasters currently than in the past 5-7 decades. The sea is not lapping at our doorsteps unless it always did. Fires might be more intense due to more availability of fuel on our greener planet - (a combination of a retarded bureaucracy not allowing fuel removal from populated areas and increased plant material from a reduction in wood burning, and increased CO2), but the actual number of fires is no more significant.

Watch that all change when they stop coal. Currently we have more trees on the planet than at any time in the last 200 years. Great fuel when you can't dig coal.

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One tiny example: Somewhere in youtube land a couple of months ago I watched an article where the BBC weather presenter was talking up the apocalypse, pointing to all the 'extreme' temperatures all over Europe, and the colours of red and purple had been daubed all over the areas of 'extreme' temperature.

Some enterprising soul dragged up the BBC's weather presentation back in the early 00's of the same calendar period of hot European summer, with all the colours benign, and many of the temperatures showing 1 to 2 degrees HOTTER than the temps being quoted as extreme for this season.

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Originally Posted by Bush Basher

It’s definitely here and buying an EV won’t change it.

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dam right there , it will make it a dam sight worse

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Originally Posted by XR500

One tiny example: Somewhere in youtube land a couple of months ago I watched an article where the BBC weather presenter was talking up the apocalypse, pointing to all the 'extreme' temperatures all over Europe, and the colours of red and purple had been daubed all over the areas of 'extreme' temperature.

Some enterprising soul dragged up the BBC's weather presentation back in the early 00's of the same cause lendar period of hot European summer, with all the colours benign, and many of the temperatures showing 1 to 2 degrees HOTTER than the temps being quoted as extreme for this season.

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Did you hear all the lies about the climate on TV1 news tonight!! They were contradicting the NZHS experts left right and centre. Ive put in a complaint to the Tribunal and want you XR500 and Sidney to appear as expert witnesses for me. Bring your YouTube links and books with you :) :) :)

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Originally Posted by Tahr

Did you hear all the lies about the climate on TV1 news tonight!! They were contradicting the NZHS experts left right and centre. Ive put in a complaint to the Tribunal and want you XR500 and Sidney to appear as expert witnesses for me. Bring your YouTube links and books with you :) :) :)

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Tahr your the first to point out someone is being bit of a dick...just saying

Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Tahr

For once Im stuck for words.
2025 huh? They had better get moving.

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I read the first sentence in disbelief, the second confirmed my skepticism. You even found some numbers for good measure . :thumbsup:

TV1??? Whats that??? Haven't owned a TV for the last 7 or 8 years.

All I'll say is Ronald Reagan is my favourite President of the USA, for his stance on Governments. And the institutions run by the Governments.

His quote:

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are" [ " I'm from the Government and I'm here to help"]

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Originally Posted by blip

How many carbon credits does tonga have to buy to compensate the world for its volcano eruption :)

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It had quite an impact, https://www.nasa.gov/feature/jpl/ton...o-stratosphere

This is entertaining, he gets to climate change around the 2 1\2 minute mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJdqJu-6ZPo

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Originally Posted by BRADS

Tahr your the first to point out someone is being bit of a dick...just saying

Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk

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Very valid point.