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Funny that you should say that @blip. I was reading about the effects of the ice caps melting and apparently when that happens in the next warm period the extra mass at the equator will slow the earths rotation enough to extend the day length by some minute fraction of a second. Only a minute step toward reversing rotation but a step none the less. It does come with the unfortunate side effect of raising sea levels by around 70 metres.Quote:
Originally Posted by blip
Regards Grandpamac.
And that’s a good thing, a few more hours in the day to save the plant.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
If we want to change the spin, we all have to run in the other direction at the same time.
But with the earth spinning, remember the speed your travelling at right now in this vacuum of space:cool:
Which makes me think about the forces at work and how stable they are, and remember, the lots going to be devoured in a black holeQuote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
Im the kind of person that likes to keep things simple. The simple problem is humans just cant help themselves and have to have a fuk with everything. So with this supposed warming the earths surface is basically a giant heat sink from the sun no amount of tax or govt policy is going to change that as much as the population thinks it will. If we think back there was still a lot of poloution as industry relied on burning coal etc. Without sounding like a tree hugger and getting back to this gaint heat sink nature had it all figured out on how to regulate it very simply....trees they shade the surface of the heat sink as well as insulate it. And then the know all fukwit human comes along has a fuk with it and upsets the balance of it all. Then we try and come up with a scientific explanation for this basic simple cause, and now we have all been convinced that if we hand over money to someone else they are going to fix it for us....
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...EQjJkEegQIEBACQuote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
Quite like the one with the antlers
Here's a practical way to make an actual difference to the ridiculous waste that happens in this age: find local farmers and buy direct from them. Quit buying things that have been freighted 1000s of kms. Like bananas for example. Stock your pantry with things that dont have plastic wrappers and 2+ year best before dates.
If you look hard and are creative this doesn't have to be expensive. Boutique farmers markets products are usually too expensive I've found, so that might not be the best option. It doesn't have any downsides really, except you have to think a bit further ahead. Actually that's not a bad thing.
I know some people on here have been super extreme and even grow their own veges in the garden. It's a sad thing that this type of person is the exception, not the norm. If a family has a supplier of meat, milk, and their own vege garden, there's not much else you really need.
Some interesting reading on this thread , things feel like they are changing at the moment globally for extreme weather for sure but most of us won’t be here in 50 yrs to see if it continues on the same trajectory .
E Vehicles are a joke and the elephant in the room is where is all the power coming from to feed these things , in NZ we barely make enough power to warm out homes and water supply in the winter . The so called media will not confront that issue .
Overpopulation of the planet , there is just too many dam people ….open the borders we need more people /workers then we need more houses …. growth growth growth boils down to greed and money , by big business and government .
The reason there is no cure for Cancer is there is no money in a cure .
Also 3rd world countries now want to live a better life like the rest of the world , they can see what that looks like with smart phones and social media , take central Africa as an example there is no money in Lions and Elephant but there is in crops and farm animals .
These so called experts that come up with numbers and solutions , who actually checks their data , in 20 yrs they just go oh we got that wrong and move on , no accountability .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
Only thing I'd disagree with there is we've got enough people, just not enough workers.
NOAA says 7 feet, but its all just numbers in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpamac
And there's an awful lot of Billionaire Climate Priests out there with sea level properties. What do they know that we don't???;)
Most people that preach the climate change fear porn haven't sorted their own lives out. They still eat McDonald's, drink soft drink, wear their fancy new in-fashion designer clothes (holey jeans), use the smelly bus or their electric car, and go on overseas vacations.
Be quite good if these people did some naval gazing instead of protesting and forcing their theories on other ordinary productive people.
Tell my wife that:D. I’m sick of trying to grow a garden in the open, built a raised garden 4m x 1.2m, time for a green house over it. Verges are so cheap, right when I have a shitloadQuote:
Originally Posted by Brad S
We will just have to remove all the ships from the sea, along with subs. Recovery of the combine displacement, should take care of sea rise, which we haven’t seen yetQuote:
Originally Posted by XR500
The problem is, when I was younger, I only new about problems in Masterton and when extraordinary, New Zealand. Didn’t hear much about the rest of the world. Now if more than two people are shot in the USA, their bodies arnt cold before I know and also the calibre used. That’s what’s changedQuote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
And they have stood trial on a forum :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Maca49
Agree with most of wtt he at you say - especially the ‘too many people on the planet’ thing, that is the crux of most of the other problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
BATTERIES !!!
What is a battery?' I think Tesla said it best when they called it an Energy Storage System. That's important.
They do not make electricity - they store electricity produced elsewhere, primarily by coal, uranium, natural gas-powered plants, or diesel-fueled generators. So, to say an EV is a zero-emission vehicle is not at all valid.
Also, since forty percent of the electricity generated in the U.S. is from coal-fired plants, it follows that forty percent of the EVs on the road are coal-powered, do you see?"
Einstein's formula, E=MC2, tells us it takes the same amount of energy to move a five-thousand-pound gasoline-driven automobile a mile as it does an electric one. The only question again is what produces the power? To reiterate, it does not come from the battery; the battery is only the storage device, like a gas tank in a car.
There are two orders of batteries, rechargeable, and single-use. The most common single-use batteries are A, AA, AAA, C, D. 9V, and lantern types. Those dry-cell species use zinc, manganese, lithium, silver oxide, or zinc and carbon to store electricity chemically. Please note they all contain toxic, heavy metals.
Rechargeable batteries only differ in their internal materials, usually lithium-ion, nickel-metal oxide, and nickel-cadmium. The United States uses three billion of these two battery types a year, and most are not recycled; they end up in landfills. California is the only state which requires all batteries be recycled. If you throw your small, used batteries in the trash, here is what happens to them.
All batteries are self-discharging. That means even when not in use, they leak tiny amounts of energy. You have likely ruined a flashlight or two from an old, ruptured battery. When a battery runs down and can no longer power a toy or light, you think of it as dead; well, it is not. It continues to leak small amounts of electricity. As the chemicals inside it run out, pressure builds inside the battery's metal casing, and eventually, it cracks. The metals left inside then ooze out. The ooze in your ruined flashlight is toxic, and so is the ooze that will inevitably leak from every battery in a landfill. All batteries eventually rupture; it just takes rechargeable batteries longer to end up in the landfill.
In addition to dry cell batteries, there are also wet cell ones used in automobiles, boats, and motorcycles. The good thing about those is, ninety percent of them are recycled. Unfortunately, we do not yet know how to recycle single-use ones properly.
But that is not half of it. For those of you excited about electric cars and a green revolution, I want you to take a closer look at batteries and also windmills and solar panels. These three technologies share what we call environmentally destructive embedded costs."
Everything manufactured has two costs associated with it, embedded costs and operating costs. I will explain embedded costs using a can of baked beans as my subject.
In this scenario, baked beans are on sale, so you jump in your car and head for the grocery store. Sure enough, there they are on the shelf for $1.75 a can. As you head to the checkout, you begin to think about the embedded costs in the can of beans.
The first cost is the diesel fuel the farmer used to plow the field, till the ground, harvest the beans, and transport them to the food processor. Not only is his diesel fuel an embedded cost, so are the costs to build the tractors, combines, and trucks. In addition, the farmer might use a nitrogen fertilizer made from natural gas.
Next is the energy costs of cooking the beans, heating the building, transporting the workers, and paying for the vast amounts of electricity used to run the plant. The steel can holding the beans is also an embedded cost. Making the steel can requires mining taconite, shipping it by boat, extracting the iron, placing it in a coal-fired blast furnace, and adding carbon. Then it's back on another truck to take the beans to the grocery store. Finally, add in the cost of the gasoline for your car.
A typical EV battery weighs one thousand pounds, about the size of a travel trunk. It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells.
It should concern you that all those toxic components come from mining. For instance, to manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust for just - one - battery."
Sixty-eight percent of the world's cobalt, a significant part of a battery, comes from the Congo. Their mines have no pollution controls, and they employ children who die from handling this toxic material. Should we factor in these diseased kids as part of the cost of driving an electric car?"
I'd like to leave you with these thoughts. California is building the largest battery in the world near San Francisco, and they intend to power it from solar panels and windmills. They claim this is the ultimate in being 'green,' but it is not! This construction project is creating an environmental disaster. Let me tell you why.
The main problem with solar arrays is the chemicals needed to process silicate into the silicon used in the panels. To make pure enough silicon requires processing it with hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrogen fluoride, trichloroethane, and acetone. In addition, they also need gallium, arsenide, copper-indium-gallium- diselenide, and cadmium-telluride, which also are highly toxic. Silicon dust is a hazard to the workers, and the panels cannot be recycled.
Windmills are the ultimate in embedded costs and environmental destruction. Each weighs 1688 tons (the equivalent of 23 houses) and contains 1300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel, 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of fiberglass, and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced. We cannot recycle used blades. Sadly, both solar arrays and windmills kill birds, bats, sea life, and migratory insects.
There may be a place for these technologies, but you must look beyond the myth of zero emissions. I predict EVs and windmills will be abandoned once the embedded environmental costs of making and replacing them become apparent. "Going Green" may sound like the Utopian ideal and are easily espoused, catchy buzz words, but when you look at the hidden and embedded costs realistically with an open mind, you can see that Going Green is more destructive to the Earth's environment than meets the eye, for sure.
If this had been titled … "The Embedded Costs of Going Green," would you have read it?
Greetings All,
Thanks for all your posts of all types. My intent with this thread was to encourage people to think about climate change an what it may mean for us. To finish I gathered some data for Hawkes bay where I live. Currently we have significant coastal erosion in the area north of Cape Kidnappers. Land and houses have been lost. This area was not lifted in the 1931 quake. General sea level rise in NZ is estimated at 210mm since 1900. Sea level in NZ has risen between 100 and 120 metres since the middle of the last glacial period. The East Coast of NZ is sinking. The sea rise data shows a combination of land sinking and sea level rise to raise apparent sea level by an additional 620mm by 2,100.
NIWA gave two scenarios for temperature rise for Hawkes Bay. The first was based on reaching zero carbon (my interpretation of a rather long description) which showed an increase of 0.8 degrees Celsius by 2050 and 1.5 degrees Celsius by 2100. For the do nothing option the increase would be 1 degree Celsius by 2050 and 3 degrees Celsius by 2100. These figures are averages for the ranges given in the NIWA data. The last 3 degree figure is a bit of a shock. Current world average temp sits at 17.2 degrees Celsius. 20 degrees Celsius is mentioned in some data as the boundary of an ice age, where we are now, and a warm period where all ice melts and sea level is a great deal higher than it is now, enough to inundate much of the land we currently live on. It would take a long time to happen but once started little can be done to stop it.
To those of you that have bothered to read tis post thankyou. Most, if not all of us will not see 2100 and many will not make 2050 either but our descendants will.
Regards Grandpamac
When we talk about preserving the climate for our future generations I look around me and cant help but think will they even notice? They seem too occupied with being fixed to a screen soaking up all the garbage social media feeds them..
WOW! this is doing the full tour,got pretty dark there for bit guys.
Most just resigned to accepting a shitty fate,old blokes looking forward to checking out,others advocating eugenics,just wow really.
So has anyone looked for and watched the film "the Dimming"?
Anyone done any research on geoengineering?
Anyone even bothered to have at the sky throughout a few days and consider their observations?
Pretty much proves my point,most just accept what they are told and ignore their own observations because they may be at odds with the crowd.
All these radical solutions to something that wouldn't exist if you hadn't been told(repeatedly) about it.
It's a filthy agenda that is driven by propaganda and various tech to deceive us all into giving away more of our rights out of fear so someone else can keep us safe
I mean who has ACTUALLY seen any evidence of rising sea levels in their lifetime.
Even food shortages,not long ago we had all these surpluses,what and now we don't? or we don't get told about them?
Who is driving this crap now?take a look,the un,who,blackrock etc and their flunkies some from NZ.
Now consider the un,(that pos guewteras whatever his name is,global boiling?wtf ffs.are you really gonna suck that up?)
What are the un famous for?wasting lots of money and being ineffective?turning a blind eye?making treaties and agreements about controlling us and our governments?
Child trafficking?
When it comes to NZ msm we really are in a hermit kingdom controlled by radical lefty nutters such as "the disinformation project"(are you gonna suck that up too?)
Even events of recent years,the rest of the world are on a different page.
Check out the front page of saturdays The Weekend Australian,dunno if it meets the forum standard of evidence but looks like a crumbling narative to me.
While obviously there are some things we could do better like less waste(no more $2 shops?) I really think discernment would largely solve the problem.
It's an information war on ALL fronts,not just climate,health,gender?,freedom,not bombs n guns to expand physical borders,information and the minds of the people.compliance
we are all in this war,like it or not.
It's a war for our freedom and our future
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZS9JJ8a9js
Have a look at this
Unfortunately it also applies to many in the current generation as reading a few of the posts in this thread will show.Quote:
Originally Posted by blip
GPM.
You paint with an overly broad brush, Blip. I'm only 23, and I know there's many others from my generation that don't fit into your description...Quote:
Originally Posted by blip
All of the young people I know are hugely worried about our planet and are very anxious to do something about it. Many no doubt don't notice the subtle changes going on around them but they are very aware of the big picture and are excellent at analysing and checking information.Quote:
Originally Posted by blip
I watched a bit of that and thought, "yeah yeah yeah, I know all this" .....Then I saw the video is 10 years old!!! For some reason the South Australian MP's have been onto it for quite a bit longer than most.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lurch
For sea level rise doubters, a personal observation: I have a holiday home on an island in Auckland Harbour. My neighbour there built a boatshed in 1960. He was a practical man, and very observant, so he built it well above king tide level. Now, in 2023, a king tide with no wind behind it, puts about 20cm of water through his shed. As I have used the tide level on his ramp as a guide to when I can/can't launch my boat from my shed next door but higher than his shed, I have noticed the tide level creeping up over the years. If I hadn't had that yardstick I would not have noticed the change. A mate who has fished the Auckland Harbour since the 1960s (as I have) denies the tide level has increased. He is wrong, only because he hasn't had a reliable measure to base his opinion on. To back up my observations, I contacted the Devonport Naval Base Senior Hydrographic Officer, who told me that the Auckland tide level has been steadily increasing in the time frame I quoted above. Unlike local weather patterns, tide level rise is not a seasonal phenomenon, it is here to stay. As Grandpamac says, we need to adapt.
Is the water level rising or is the land sinking?
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by blip
GPM
Probably a dumb thought but Im full of them. What if the techtonic plates require something under them to keep them in place and we are hard out extracting it all, be it water oil gas etc?
The problem, we are to sisal to make a difference, so we adapt and live with it and pay the taxes and put up with the hair brain ideas. We could have heaps more hydro power, but it ain’t going to happen, because of money and consents. Nice to see a main highway being muted, from Whangārei to Tauranga, that’s a positive, especially if they can by pass Auckland:D
Greetings,Quote:
Originally Posted by blip
The plates are quite thick and the water, oil and gas deposits are within the crust. There can be local subsidence where the deposits are removed, especially if they are shallow. The plates are moving constantly and basically are driven by convection currents in the soft mantle below them and basically float on the latter. As you likely know there is a destructive plate margin or subduction zone of the east coast of the North Island which drives the earthquake and volcanic activity in the North Island.
Regards Grandpamac.
That is going to be a bloody long bridge if the bypass Auckland Maca. Break ahead to Cape Colville. What are the odds it will be one way to save money? That is she’ll of a reverse if some clown enters the other end before it is his turn. Ha hahaha.
Regardless of oppinions on our effect on the rate of warming, I would think the general idea of trying to pump less chemicals and shit into our atmosphere, and pump less pollution into our water is a fairly common sense one.
I agree entirely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick-D
Yesterday I planted 70 native seedlings out for a local conservation trust.
Woolen weed mats, folded cardboard tree protectors held together with bamboo stakes.
Refundable deposit on the plastic plant pots and trays.
For good measure I tidied up some plantings from 5 and 6 years ago which were in plastic sleeves and folded plastic core flute protecters.
That was a lot of sacks of plastic waste.
That shows the changes that have occurred in a short period of time.
And the small things that can help .
I do totally agree with your post above. I do at the same time have concerns about the information that these 'young people' are allowed to view and form their decisions from. Much of it is censored and this new 'disinformation bill' will only increase censorship and reduce the quality of the decisions made including those made regarding climate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
I am astounded that a govt here would attack the Bill of Rights, but the same has already happened and now been reversed in the US. The following is a rollicking breakdown of what has happened and worth a listen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SePM...p=wgIGCgQQAhgB
Like all the work at Bayfair down here, just about finished and will help a little, but two lanes, should have 4 with the continuing development of Papamoa and Te Puke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rushy
Like ive said your being taught what to think not how to think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moa Hunter
That will certainly make you feel good:thumbsup: I do similar things all over my farm, reducing its viability yet making it a more soulful place for us to live out our years on.Quote:
Originally Posted by akaroa1
But if the term "farting at thunder" has some relevance to NZ's efforts in reducing global emissions, after reading this article (a couple of years old) I think the term needs to be changed to "farting at the cosmos"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environm...al-revolution/
There are several carbon capture programs underway around the world. One that has great promise for mitigating the likes of those shocking numbers from China is capturing, compressing and liquifying CO2 and then injecting it deep underground. So far, although several plants are operating they are not sufficiently scaled to make a difference but I do imagine this is where China will be headingQuote:
Originally Posted by XR500
I wholeheartedly agree, but have to add that we as a society still have a way to go in our attitude to pollution. Individuals among us see no problem in using some of the forest skid sites as their personal rubbish dumps. This was taken when I was on one of the routes I take the dog on when we need to stretch our legs a bit. These people need a bit of education as well as conglomerates and industries.Attachment 230076Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick-D
I cant like that. Grubby bastards
