Thread: Deer in Strange Places.

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

ohhh yes the money the means some time

You got it in one

I only object when idjits let wapiti go in good red deer areas just stuffs up good red genetics and any young hunter will not be able to enter such a cross into any competition silly thing to do

Originally Posted by tac a1

It has always amazed me that red deer seem to have migrated no further north than the kaimais. Seems to be that the Karangahake river stops them from entering the Coromandel Forest park.

If there were japs up here it would be perfect for them. Lots of Manuka gullies with access to pasture nearby. Clover etc.

Lots of pork up here. No deer but!!

Thought there were some Sika released/fell out of a trail on the top of the Kopu Hikuai road years ago, DoC sent hunters and dogs in after them. Yes i agree there would have been a lot of fun on the Paninsula

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

I only object when idjits let wapiti go in good red deer areas just stuffs up good red genetics and any young hunter will not be able to enter such a cross into any competition silly thing to do

Greetings @Barry the hunter and all,
Many of the red deer brought to NZ were from the English game parks which had already been crossed with other red subspecies to improve antler quality. This included deer from Eastern Europe close to the western range of the Wapiti group, also a Red subspecies. The genetics of most red deer were scrambled long ago.
Regards GPM.

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

one really strange one that still stands out for me was one of our DOC staff a very experienced hunter shot a thar on the side of the road south of Taumaranui now where the hell did that come from - he saw it in a paddock and went back and tipped it over - another one I bet a lot of hunters dont know was that whitetail were released at a Port Waikato property - they were shot out by DOC or where they ?? I dont know myself - but yes they were there I have seen the photos

That tahr or similar was shot at Taihape which came from a safari park in the district.

Originally Posted by XR500

Wouldn't surprise me at all. I bumped into mobs of Chamois within a minute or two of the SH6 river bridges across most of the big west coast rivers. Would only be a day or two trundle down the riverbed to get to the coast and take in the sea breeze

Ive watched chamois grazing on the Franz airstrip, and seen them on the beach further south.

Originally Posted by TeRei

There was and still is a mob of fallow at the bridge on outskirts of Fernhill including a whopper fallow stag from the mob which was killed by Apatu Farms staff on HW50 in the last month.

The number of fallow about here is mental, we've had 3 mva call outs in a month car vs deer all at night on 50, the rut is always the worst time as there moving about.
There's some impressive stags getting shot at night on the road.

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Not so much of a strange place but still was hard case to see.
I was in a block of the Clarance this roar and watched some hunters drive up to the Neighbours hut and transfer their kit into a side by side to set off for a hunt.
A Fallow spiker walked out of a patch of scrub 50 meters from them, watched them for a while and ducked down the riverbank. The spiker wandered along the riverbank, which was open grass, but out of view from the hut. When he got to a patch of scrub he would move up and watch the guys. He did this for about 20 minutes before wandering off into the scrub on the edge of the river.
Went south of Kaikoura at night and saw 3 fallow on the front lawn of a house down a side road 100 meters from the state highway, as I drove past, they just looked up and it was only when I stopped, they walked off.

Originally Posted by gmm

Not so much of a strange place but still was hard case to see.
I was in a block of the Clarance this roar and watched some hunters drive up to the Neighbours hut and transfer their kit into a side by side to set off for a hunt.
A Fallow spiker walked out of a patch of scrub 50 meters from them, watched them for a while and ducked down the riverbank. The spiker wandered along the riverbank, which was open grass, but out of view from the hut. When he got to a patch of scrub he would move up and watch the guys. He did this for about 20 minutes before wandering off into the scrub on the edge of the river.
Went south of Kaikoura at night and saw 3 fallow on the front lawn of a house down a side road 100 meters from the state highway, as I drove past, they just looked up and it was only when I stopped, they walked off.

I am convinced that Sika hinds follow you as you hunt through their territory. If you do anything unexpected like take your jacket of to shed some layers they will squeal. Had this happen two days in a row. They will also sneak past you in full view if you are looking the other way, keeping their eye on you all the time. Turn your head and they are gone.
GPM.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greetings @Barry the hunter and all,
Many of the red deer brought to NZ were from the English game parks which had already been crossed with other red subspecies to improve antler quality. This included deer from Eastern Europe close to the western range of the Wapiti group, also a Red subspecies. The genetics of most red deer were scrambled long ago.
Regards GPM.

granted but that was over 100 years ago - what I mean is idjits releasing wapiti from modern genetics and recently like last 20 years - and many are from modern imported American genetics - different ball game altogether - Waverly south Taranaki - parts of Gisborne - wapiti are a subspecies of red yes - same family as red Cervus but a sub species cervus Canadensis - but two different deer - my point on young hunters trying to enter what is obviously a cross in any competition stands

Outside a mates driveway recently



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Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

granted but that was over 100 years ago - what I mean is idjits releasing wapiti from modern genetics and recently like last 20 years - and many are from modern imported American genetics - different ball game altogether - Waverly south Taranaki - parts of Gisborne - wapiti are a subspecies of red yes - same family as red Cervus but a sub species cervus Canadensis - but two different deer - my point on young hunters trying to enter what is obviously a cross in any competition stands

Greeting again,
I get your point. One thing though since about the 1950's Red Deer Cervus elaphus are divided into three groups of subspecies. Atlantic, Maraloid and Wapitoid. There are six subspecies of Wapiti in Asia and four more in Canada and the US. All are Cervus elaphus plus a subspecies name at the end. Canadensis is no longer used. The name is now Cervus elaphus nelsoni. Cervus is the genus, elaphus is the species and nelsoni is the subspecies. There are about 32 subspecies in all over the three groups
Bruce Banwell's books are a good source of data. It is still changing as a better understanding is gained. All breed with each other given half a chance as they always have. In NZ subspecies that have been separated from others by distance in their natural range have been clumped together on three small islands. Cross breeding should hardly be a surprise.
Regards Grandpamac.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

I am convinced that Sika hinds follow you as you hunt through their territory. If you do anything unexpected like take your jacket of to shed some layers they will squeal. Had this happen two days in a row. They will also sneak past you in full view if you are looking the other way, keeping their eye on you all the time. Turn your head and they are gone.
GPM.

Saw something similar one time.
Somewhere in the Clements Rd location a mate and I stalked together trying to get onto roaring Sika stags. We got into a stag's patch but couldn't see him although he was close. My mate decided to carry on alone a bit further while I stayed put and watched. I could see my mate the whole time and he had gone about 60 or 70 yds when a young stag silently stepped out of thick growth and watched before folowing my mate for a short time. My mate was intensely looking ahead and had no idea. The stag never saw me. It was sactually quite comical and a pleasure to watch. Then the stag dissolved buck into the scrub and disappeared. We both had a good laugh when I recounted with my mate. We were both young then and still learning about Sika.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

I am convinced that Sika hinds follow you as you hunt through their territory. If you do anything unexpected like take your jacket of to shed some layers they will squeal. Had this happen two days in a row. They will also sneak past you in full view if you are looking the other way, keeping their eye on you all the time. Turn your head and they are gone.
GPM.

Yep, your right. I had a young sika stag I could not locate and twice I went through a small patch of thick scrub and both times when I got out into the open, he squealed at me. The third time I got almost to the edge, made a heap of noise walking out and backtracked sitting off to the side of where I had walked. The stag knew something was up but couldn't work it out, he was almost crawling keeping low as possible when he appeared 5 meters away. He saw me and froze, soon as I moved he was gone. That bloody cunning bugger was following me and I stalked that area thinking I was on to it, but goes to show he had the better of me.

Originally Posted by grandpamac

Greeting again,
I get your point. One thing though since about the 1950's Red Deer Cervus elaphus are divided into three groups of subspecies. Atlantic, Maraloid and Wapitoid. There are six subspecies of Wapiti in Asia and four more in Canada and the US. All are Cervus elaphus plus a subspecies name at the end. Canadensis is no longer used. The name is now Cervus elaphus nelsoni. Cervus is the genus, elaphus is the species and nelsoni is the subspecies. There are about 32 subspecies in all over the three groups
Bruce Banwell's books are a good source of data. It is still changing as a better understanding is gained. All breed with each other given half a chance as they always have. In NZ subspecies that have been separated from others by distance in their natural range have been clumped together on three small islands. Cross breeding should hardly be a surprise.
Regards Grandpamac.

I just remember the young fella I think it was out from the coast Waipukerau had head disqaulfied some years ago big multi pont thing judged to be to much of a farmed escappee