Subsonic action

.308 Win, 151gr @shooternz cast lead bullet, ADI military brass, Trail Boss, 1050 ft./sec.

I will keep this short. Riding the quad to elevated positions and then shooting everything from half a kilometre away does nothing to shrink the beergut. So there was no option but to buy a Browning lever action and go back to open sights, forcing me to use my legs uphill, downhill and back up the hill again. Typical shooting range was 25 to 30 yards. Subsonic is a massive plus for the ears, you can blaze away without needing ear protection. It’s much easier for dogs too. And needless to say, you don’t wake up the surrounding countryside.

It’s been a very long time since I hunted with my own open sights rifle. What an excellent mission. Goats are stupid and easy to hunt, but nonetheless you’ve still got to get there, and back again. I really enjoyed it.

Attachment 147403

Attachment 147405

Attachment 147404

they are surprisingly quiet even without suppressor ...great to see you getting amoung them.

Nice shooting! Im getting the same speeds with same projectile in my suppressed 30-30 with 6.8 gr trail boss. 30-50 mm groups at 50 m( sighted in @ 50) Haven't managed to go for a hunt with that load yet but encouraged by your efforts. Incredibly quiet and inexplicably fun to shoot.

they a lot like a .22lr on steroids .... 4times the projectile weight = more than 4 times the preformance.

Good results Dave, need to try them on a deer or two.

Nice work.
How would you compare subsonic with suppressor to subsonic without suppressor?

Huge difference in my 30-30. Suppressor on is stupid quiet. Off, same round, you really need earmuffs. (16" barrel)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Synthetic

Nice work.
How would you compare subsonic with suppressor to subsonic without suppressor?

---

Noisier, but not by as big a margin as a really short barrel. Mine is 20”. I find it doesn’t need suppression but haven’t used it in thick timber yet.

It won’t get suppressed anyway. Leaving it as it is. I’ll use ear plugs or muffs when using full power ammunition.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

they a lot like a .22lr on steroids .... 4times the projectile weight = more than 4 times the preformance.

---

From memory double the weight at the same speed hits with 4 times the force

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bill999

From memory double the weight at the same speed hits with 4 times the force

---

Nope, double the weight at the same speed is double the force. The same weight at double the speed is four times the force.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flyblown

Noisier, but not by as big a margin as a really short barrel. Mine is 20”. I find it doesn’t need suppression but haven’t used it in thick timber yet.

It won’t get suppressed anyway. Leaving it as it is. I’ll use ear plugs or muffs when using full power ammunition.

---

I have used Robs casts in 308 and 30-30 both subs and at 1600 fps for 3 years now. Shot reds with the faster load out out to 150yds, worked just as well as a jacketed projectile. Try pushing them a bit faster, gives more margin for error. Should still work with the opens.

This is why I love my Blackout. Zero'd @ 100m on supers. Dial to 6 on the vertical and it's zero'd @ 50m for subsonics. 16" barrel with a DPT overbarrel can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vulcannz

This is why I love my Blackout. Zero'd @ 100m on supers. Dial to 6 on the vertical and it's zero'd @ 50m for subsonics. 16" barrel with a DPT overbarrel can.

---

What kind of subs are you using in it?

I've been using some 208grain Hornady A-MAX, also some reloads from the gunshop which are 220grain (pretty sure they are a Hornady RN Interlock). I use American Gunner 125grain for supers.

with a 50m sub x zero the hornady supersonic 110 vmax groups 9inches high at 100m

Yes I use a Nikon 2-8x32 with BDC reticle with Strelok. Though I note the drops using a sharpie marker pen on my wrist(s). At 8x the steps are 50m is 0 then circles (drops in the reticle) are 64/80/94/117/138.

For supers at 8x steps are 100m is 0, then circles are 150/199/243/305/360.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boar Freak

I have used Robs casts in 308 and 30-30 both subs and at 1600 fps for 3 years now. Shot reds with the faster load out out to 150yds, worked just as well as a jacketed projectile. Try pushing them a bit faster, gives more margin for error. Should still work with the opens.

---

What powder and weight are you using for 1600fps in the .308?

I am not sure of the velocity but I get good accuracy with 25.00 grains of 2206H start to get lead fouling at 35.00 grains around 2100fps in my rifles 30" barrel.

Bit of a hijack here but......what is the fouling/cleaning of the bore like when using cast projectiles at subsonic velocities? Does it foul? What do you clean it with?

Just clean it like normal @Shearer. At the end of a week or 10 days hunting, I’ll give it a light scrub with bore cleaner, patch put, pull through, light oil, in the safe. Pull through again before next firing, fouler into the hill at the homestead before hunting. Off I go. Repeat.

I also have two positions marked on the elevation dial @vulcannz, 5 MOA up and I’m good for 50m on subsonics, zero for full power 165gr. But that’s on my other 308.

I haven’t yet fully worked out the open sights adjustment for subsonic, so was limiting my shots to what I’d proven in the paddock at home, with milk bottles, about 30m. A mission at some point in the next couple of days will be to do proper drop tests with the subs in the Browning. I expect I will limit myself to shooting goats and small deer within 50m with the open sights, we’ll see. With a good rest I’ve been shooting rabbits at 80 to 90 m but that’s with a scope. Big difference.

[QUOTE=Flyblown;1050558]Just clean it like normal @Shearer. At the end of a week or 10 days hunting, I’ll give it a light scrub with bore cleaner, patch put, pull through, light oil, in the safe. Pull through again before next firing, fouler into the hill at the homestead before hunting. Off I go. Repeat.

Ok. You say bore cleaner. I use a carbon remover (obviously removes carbon) and when required a copper solvent. Does copper solvent remove lead deposits?

[QUOTE=Flyblown;1050558]Just clean it like normal @Shearer. At the end of a week or 10 days hunting, I’ll give it a light scrub with bore cleaner, patch put, pull through, light oil, in the safe. Pull through again before next firing, fouler into the hill at the homestead before hunting. Off I go. Repeat.

Ok. You say bore cleaner. I use a carbon remover (obviously removes carbon) and when required a copper solvent. Does copper solvent remove lead deposits? Is there lead fouling?

Dunno. Barrel shoots straight, that’s pretty much the sum of it.

Right. Maybe I am over thinking it.
I shoot "normal" velocity 308 as well and figure if there is a build up of anything (like lead) in the bore then the diameter of the bore decreases and subsequently the pressure will increase. Not something I want to happen that's why I am asking is there a build up of lead in the bore and if so how do you get rid of it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cigar

Nope, double the weight at the same speed is double the force. The same weight at double the speed is four times the force.

---

Kinetic energy(J)= 0.5 x m(kg) x V^2(Velocity in m/s)

So energy is proportional to weight or velocity squared.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Josan

Kinetic energy(J)= 0.5 x m(kg) x V^2(Velocity in m/s)

So energy is proportional to weight or velocity squared.

---

thats what I thought too, a quadruple. But iv been wrong before

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shearer

Bit of a hijack here but......what is the fouling/cleaning of the bore like when using cast projectiles at subsonic velocities? Does it foul? What do you clean it with?

---

At subsonic it should never foul just clean with solvent and a few patches it is like a big .22RF, The lube is mostly wax a bit like car wax,
all that is in the bore is powder residue no scrubbing required, If you do get lead fouling then the scrubbing starts lots of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Josan

Kinetic energy(J)= 0.5 x m(kg) x V^2(Velocity in m/s)

So energy is proportional to weight or velocity squared.

---

Correct (well almost, m = mass, not weight, and our high school science teachers told us there is a difference).

If you throw some numbers in the equation you will see that doubling the mass doubles the energy, and doubling the velocity increases the energy fourfold.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shooternz

At subsonic it should never foul just clean with solvent and a few patches it is like a big .22RF, The lube is mostly wax a bit like car wax,
all that is in the bore is powder residue no scrubbing required, If you do get lead fouling then the scrubbing starts lots of it.

---

Thanks @shooternz.
Ok. So to get this straight in my own head.....If I buy cast lead projectiles they will be coated in wax? If I shoot them subsonic, I can clean out powder residue (with a carbon remover) and there should be no lead fouling. If there is lead fouling it must be scrubbed out mechanically (perhaps with a neutral lubricant) as opposed to using a chemical solvent? (like you would with copper).

Most of shooternzs cast bullets are gas checked little copper cups on the arse that let you push them a bit faster than plain based ones before they lead.
Leading occurs when 1/ you forget to lube your bullets or 2/ when you push them too fast and friction softens the lead leaving streaks in the bore and sending accuracy to buggery. It comes out easily but needs a bronze brush and light oil to get it out.
Hope that helps.

If you powder coat your cast bullets you will get no leading

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marty Henry

Most of shooternzs cast bullets are gas checked little copper cups on the arse that let you push them a bit faster than plain based ones before they lead.
Leading occurs when 1/ you forget to lube your bullets or 2/ when you push them too fast and friction softens the lead leaving streaks in the bore and sending accuracy to buggery. It comes out easily but needs a bronze brush and light oil to get it out.
Hope that helps.

---

Excellent. Thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Driverman

If you powder coat your cast bullets you will get no leading

---

I won't even ask how that is done. Baby steps.

A related question...
How do you know when you get leading? Is it easy to see down the bore (like carbon) or at the muzzle (like copper)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The bomb

What powder and weight are you using for 1600fps in the .308?

---

Was using 17grs of AR2207 @The bomb

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cigar

A related question...
How do you know when you get leading? Is it easy to see down the bore (like carbon) or at the muzzle (like copper)?

---

If heavy leading, loss of rifling grooves, looks more smoothborish.

If very heavy leading, it becomes a heavy barrel... (-;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boar Freak

Was using 17grs of AR2207 @The bomb

---

Thanks,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shearer

Thanks @shooternz.
Ok. So to get this straight in my own head.....If I buy cast lead projectiles they will be coated in wax? If I shoot them subsonic, I can clean out powder residue (with a carbon remover) and there should be no lead fouling. If there is lead fouling it must be scrubbed out mechanically (perhaps with a neutral lubricant) as opposed to using a chemical solvent? (like you would with copper).

---

I just use Hoppes No9 solvent and occasionally JB Paste, My .357 mag S&W 586 has had over 70.000 cast bullets through it and has never had a bronze brush down the barrel,
only ever cleaned it with No 9 and patches,Reasons your barrel fouls 1 it has copper fouling, it rips lead from bullet, 2 twist is too fast over spins the bullet, rips lead from the bullet, 3 Velocity is too high same as no 2
As in the black powder days want/need more power go to bigger diameter heavier bullet, The 50 cal BP with 500 grain cast bullets and around 100 grains of powder will kill any animal on the planet.

Took the 18” Tikka T3 out today for a subsonics run. In all honesty I prefer shooting the Browning BLR, simply for the silly cowboy factor. But seriously, with a DPT suppressor this rig is deadly with subs. I can shoot 3 or 4 goats, and turn around and go 250m over there for the next bunch that haven’t been spooked by full-power ammo.

It was a day of two halves. Goats immediately, then nothing for 5 hours, then goats at the end of the day. Stalked into a big fat red spiker, handsome animal, bang on deer o’clock on the walk out. I know a story is automatically “tall” without photos, but oh well at least I was there. I had him lined up and ready to go but just wasn’t happy with the amount of spindly manuka I had to shoot through. All of 30 yards. Suddenly he spooked in a massive rush of fright... and I was kinda glad. Weird how you put so much effort into something, then change your mind at the last moment.

No changing the mind when it comes to the goaty pestilence...

Attachment 147625

Attachment 147626

Attachment 147627

Attachment 147628