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Hi team , before I take the nissan into a garage I thought I would tap into the accumulated knowledge of the Forum,
So here is the problem . I have a 1998 Nissan Mistral with the 2.7TDi motor . It is easish to start when cold but when I go to start when its hot , ie run into town , it doesnt start right up , it turns over OK but needs a good few turns before it fires up . Any thoughts on where the problem may lye , could it be one of the relays not sending right info?
Cheers Stephen
What does it run like once started? is it only a starting issue?
Starting issues for diesel can be a number of things:
Compression issues, (Valve clearances set to tight when warm, Problem with worn engine rings etc...) (ignoring the obvious glow plug issue, but that will be from cold not hot.)
Speed of cranking - to get compression up you need a good crank, sometimes if wiring warms up (Main Power to starter or Earth to Block) this resistance can go up causing slower crank speed?
Air in Fuel line/pump (More likely the cause). Next time try priming the fuel system using the prime pump on the fuel fuel filter (Also when last this filter changed?) before trying to start. If it starts better after priming you have identified its a fuel issue. Maybe start with changing the fuel filter.
After that you may want to take it to a Diesel Specialists to check over the fuel pump timings and pressures etc...
Also any smoke from exhaust after starting or when running (colour and amount?) This helps with diagnosis also if fuel issue.
In my experience its loose tolerances in the diesel injection pump as it expands with heat, to test this have some cold water when you get home and poor it over the injection pump to cool it down then try to start it, if it starts when hot better then this might mean the pump needs replaced or rebuilt to bring the tolerances back down into spec.
Changed fuel filters on my 80series (had to take housing put to get the stubborn filter off) since then it took a few winds on the starter. Had a look and the screw on the top of the priming pump was a bit loose causing it to leak, half a turn to snug it up and problem solved
same motor in the terrano.....needs good glow when cold,changed out the glowing unit to one that gives us a good clicking reminder when ready to start....MAYBE even when warm give it just a wee bit of time.... my Mrs goes crook at me when I dont "wait for the click" LOL....
Hi again thanks for a few suggestions , motor has 360k on it , I replaced fuel filter 30k ago , replaced glowplugs a year ago , when hot the motor winds fast , when cold a bit more sluggish , no noticable smoke out exhaust, I have noticed motor not as smooth at idle as it was a month ago , could be my imagination, new battery last winter .
Cheers Stephen
give it an oil change etc...always seems to perk them up a bit...having a tame mechanic is great....
The difference between hot and cold is telling you lots of things, it probably not a leak in the system otherwise it would be a pig to start when cold as it lets more air in the longer it left, probably not (leak back) diesel leaking back to the tankQuote:
Originally Posted by hokonui
In my experience its loose tolerances in the diesel injection pump as it expands with heat, to test this have some cold water when you get home and poor it over the injection pump to cool it down then try to start it, if it starts when hot better
then this might mean the pump needs replaced or rebuilt to bring the tolerances back down into spec - its a 5min check that will tell you if it is or isnt the problem then you can start looking to leaks in the system etc
thanks carbine will give that a go, cheers Stephen
Hi again , just an update for members who added there suggestions, So I took the Mistral to a diesel injector specialist , these guys know there stuff , old school , they had a look and come up with what could most likely be the cause ,fuel pump like carbine suggested , around 2-2.5k fix , if that was problem , so Ill put up with it for now and see how she goes , cheers for help ect
there was two things I was warned about when we bought the terrano.....both have eventuated...there is a PLATE somewhere in fuel system that gives gip...we specifiacally asked for it to be checked...but no they didnt do so...untill we ended up paying to fix issue later... the 2nd one is a wee fuel filter that is so tiny the only way to get it out is with a ball point pen.....that too gummed up... simple fix but like everything when paying someone else,it costs.
ours costs us around the grand mark each year to keep it running sweet.overdue for auto service...must get onto that.
in the mean time you can when you get home from a good drive poor cold water on the injector pump yourself and see if it makes a difference to try and isolate the problem, have had this issue on an 80 series cruiser 1HDT with 500+km on original pump and also a land rover Freelander with 350K on itQuote:
Originally Posted by hokonui
That filter would be the banjo gauze where the fuel supply line to the pump is bolted on to the fuel pump. Any signs of bug in the system and this could be blocked up - fairly easy to check and also a possibility for an airleak into the system when warm (although wouldn't fit the symptoms as it would be running like a bag of snot on half the cylinders and missing like a pig until it clears the air out hot or cold...).Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
Not sure what would be being referred to as a 'plate' - from my recollection of these which is questionable at best they are a rotary type injection pump? Can't recall anything in there that would be called a plate but there is a lot of clearance type stuff with the four pistons that wears over time and with too much clearance comes bad starting and poor performance. Another random possibility that hasn't been mentioned, is a fault in the electronic control circuit that turns up when it's warm.
@hokonui is this the td27 motor? if so there's a reconned diesel pump on trademe for $650 if its the right model for your motor might be a bargain if soQuote:
Originally Posted by hokonui
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/c...9?bof=TdZN2xwj
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/c...5?bof=TdZN2xwj
one thing i would suggest aswell is do the fuel filter when you do the engine oil nothing kills a diesel faster then crap in the fuel be it dirt and crap or dissolved air for the sake of 20$ extra per service can save alot in damage to a diesel engine
^^This - I thought I had a standing instruction with the service types to do the fuel filter every time they saw the vehicle - seems not. Yep, dirty dose of fuel and that's the bloody excuse of the century. Another reason not to go back...
Doing the fuel filter every time should be a standard maintenance procedure, I have zero bloody idea why they don't as it's created so many issues for the dealers and owners across the bazaars.
Thought i would add that in there for anyone reading this thread, because i saw him mention he changed fuel filter 30,000km ago in one of his posts assume he does oil and filter like most every 10k why not chuck a fuel filter in aswell cheap insuranceQuote:
Originally Posted by No.3
Just as an additional comment for anyone servicing their own cars, https://www.partzonline.co.nz/ has best price on filters ive found, normally use ryco on my 4jx1 poosuzu wizard which needs 2 oil filters and 1 fuel filterQuote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
supercheap normally costs anywhere between 110 -160 for the filters partsonline normally 110 or less makes a difference if your doing 2 or 3 services a year
Hi Guys , an update on the Nissan Mistral which I still have. It started idling erratic, like it was starving for fuel, if I stopped at the lights I had to feather the accelerator to keep from stalling ,I was in at supercheap getting oil and filter for wifes car and thought I would get a bottle of diesel injector cleaner, reading online there are believers and non believers on this stuff , anyhow bought a bottle of Nulon brand injector cleaner and poured in about 150ml when I was filling up the tank , I had a read instructions on the back of bottle when I was finished and it said put in 50ml per tank , oh well we shall see what happens I thought . first trip to work and back about 70ks and still idling like like its going to stall . next day same trip and pull up at our gate when I get home from work , steady idle , get out to close gate steady idle and that folks is how its been the last two weeks . I am a believer for now. LOL
That may be your problem solved ?. But what I have found is diesel fuel tanks accumulate dirt etc over a long period and they tend to clog up/restrict the flow of fuel , a cleaner is a short term fix until it isn't , and putting in a "cleaner" to the tank tends to clean up the tanks deposits & the they end up in the tank pump.
The only long term solution is to clean out the tank and clean up the pump . One short term fix is to put a Low pressure air hose down the fuel line to the tank but remember to drain & strain the tank fuel afterwards.
Cheers for that , good info there
Although to be fair there is a sump low point in the tank to collect the heavy crap and as long as you aren't culturing living things in your tank you should be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tankd
I have had a couple of cases now where mechanics wanted to fully rip things apart and replace injectors etc and I've chucked in a dose of Wynn's EDT and the vehicle has come right within one tank of fuel... One was a TD42 Safari and the other a common rail Hyundai Tuscon diesel. So safe to say in some circumstances the injection system cleaner can do some really good work for you and save a lot of $$$$ in hands on work by a mechanic.
What you might find is from now on you might need to do the fuel filters quite regularly until the crap that is suspended in the fuel system is filtered out, and the other point is there isn't a return line filter so anything after the injectors that gets released by the cleaner ends up straight back in the tank. In theory it's all been flushed back now, but it is worth considering a prefilter in front of the OEM diesel filter to add a bit more crap collection capability.
Also another point, the injector cleaner will clean partially blocked injectors etc and restore the best running capability to a fuel system but what they won't do is repair worn injectors where the spray pattern is up the cluck or the injector spring pressures aren't within parameters or the internal needle is worn and not sealing correctly. Worth being aware of the possibility that it still has issues but they have just been hidden for the time being. I'd fit a new air filter, and double check everything like EGR and intercooler etc that might affect the intake system and then keep an eye on how the thing is running. Weird colour smoke on start up, etc etc...