91 Hi lux wof issue

So, a mate has a 91 Hilux, owned by him from new and covered 880 000 (not a typo).
The old girl has nothing but original parts that were added as part of original purchase by main dealer, and has flown through every wof.....until last week.
Garage that did the latest wof inspection have told my mate that the running boards are not legal as they are welded on, and that he will have to cut them off and re-fit using bolts.
Remember, these are factory fitted from new and have not been an issue since 1991.

This seems rather strange to say the least. Any thoughts ??

Take it somewhere else for its WOF check

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

Take it somewhere else for its WOF check

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That is plan B

Turn the tables, and state you'll report him to the certifying agency (NZTA??) for improper interpretation of the regs.

Remember that all the details of the failed wof are now on line and available for the next garage to see, so first quizz the next garage you intend to take it to, what their interpretation is. Preferably a Toyota franchise outfit.

LN106 Hilux and earlier models factory running boards are bolted to the body.
I am guessing he has perhaps gone to a different WOF shop than usual or the shop he is using has had to not 'miss' anything.
Anything welded to the chassis, bull bar, running boards, sidesteps etc needs to be certified. If bolted on then no issues.
If he can get a letter from dealer stating the running boards were mounted that way from new he may get around it.
Has he asked why they were failed when passed previously?
WOF officers have been getting tougher on 4wds recently. Ask how I know.. LOL

I'd take it to a Toyota dealership and get them to verify in writing that it is factory fitted and see if they still argue the fact.

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Originally Posted by XR500

Turn the tables, and state you'll report him to the certifying agency (NZTA??) for improper interpretation of the regs.

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The regs are often poorly written, can be as clear as mud and quite often contradictory. In area's where there is lack of info or clarity (are welded running boards "standard" on this vehicle? is the the structural integrity of part X altered by this repair/corrosion/damage/mod etc) the inspector must fail the vehicle and it is up to the owner to provide proof that it complies. Reporting an inspector to the NZTA about failing this is no threat - after all it's NZTA's methodology that prescribes they have to fail in the first place.
From the VIRM - "5. Where the vehicle inspector requires further information in order to determine compliance with the requirements, the inspector must reject the vehicle until the information has been obtained."
A letter from a Toyota dealer saying this was a std factory mod or a letter from a repairer/vehicle engineer confirming that the mod has not negatively impacted the vehicle structural integrity will suffice.

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Originally Posted by XR500

Remember that all the details of the failed wof are now on line and available for the next garage to see

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WOFOnline will only give you category fails at best, nothing specific. Garage will only know you've recently been for another w.o.f. if you tell them or if they actually poll the plate. We don't do that unless there's a reason to. AA/VINZ/VTNZ use a different system and can have access to specific fail data.

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Originally Posted by XR500

so first quizz the next garage you intend to take it to, what their interpretation is. Preferably a Toyota franchise outfit.

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Leading with this is guaranteed to attract attention to the issue you are trying to downplay. If the inspector doesn't have an issue, don't poke the bear and bring it to his attention.

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Originally Posted by RUMPY

I'd take it to a Toyota dealership and get them to verify in writing that it is factory fitted and see if they still argue the fact.

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Believe me, the inspector will be quite happy to pass the vehicle once some one has provided a statement that it complies. They really don't care either way, they just have a job to do and a boxes to tick before they can give you your sticker.

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Originally Posted by threefootsix

Believe me, the inspector will be quite happy to pass the vehicle once some one has provided a statement that it complies. They really don't care either way, they just have a job to do and a boxes to tick before they can give you your sticker.

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Still, wouldn't cost but five minutes to bang the VIN past the local dealer by phone call and confirm with them on standard fitment or not which would save a pissed off client. I have a possible similar issue, dealer fitted aftermarket load carrying springs which unloaded raise the rear of the vehicle up past the 50mm lift limit. That one is a grey area - in as, if the canopy, drawer, bar etc have to come off the back for whatever reason it could get interesting. Not my problem to sort though...

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Originally Posted by RUMPY

I'd take it to a Toyota dealership and get them to verify in writing that it is factory fitted and see if they still argue the fact.

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1991 was a long time ago. Not sure they would hold records on such things, but the car was purchased locally so its worth a try

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A modification affects the vehicle structure – including an object or fitting affixed after manufacture that is welded to the chassis, sub-frame, cross-member or body of a monocoque structure (Note 7), and

a) is not excluded from the requirements for LVV specialist certification (Table 3-1-1), and

b) is missing proof of LVV specialist or accepted overseas certification, ie:

i. the vehicle is not fitted with a valid LVV vehicle certification plate, or

ii. the operator is not able to produce a valid modification declaration or authority card

iii. the vehicle has not been certified to an accepted overseas system as described in Technical bulletin 13 .

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https://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt....frontal-impact

Unfortunately they are correct

Nothing would have been welded to the chassis from the factory or dealership.
Yes, as has been pointed out, anything like that will be a WoF failure.
It would need a registered/certified engineers and/or structural repairers certificate to say its OK.

Would be far easier to cut off and get the steps altered so the are bolt on.

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Originally Posted by Pengy

Remember, these are factory fitted from new and have not been an issue since 1991.

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i find it hard to believe that toyota would weld an accessory to the chassis at anytime in their history
maybe they were dealer fitted way back then when no-one gave a fuck because we all know better than the engineers that designed these things
thoughts ? cut em off buy a new aftermarket set with all the correct mounting brackets and save some stress

Fitted by random dealer is not the same as fitted by Toyota at the factory

Plenty of dodgy dealer installs of aftermarket accessories on new cars back then. Optional extras.

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Originally Posted by Tommy

https://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt....frontal-impact

Unfortunately they are correct

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Body on a Toyota Hilux is not monocoque it's body on ladder chassis. The question then is, what are the steps welded too, body or chassis?

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Originally Posted by cambo

Nothing would have been welded to the chassis from the factory or dealership.
Yes, as has been pointed out, anything like that will be a WoF failure.
It would need a registered/certified engineers and/or structural repairers certificate to say its OK.

Would be far easier to cut off and get the steps altered so the are bolt on.

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Ironically using brackets that would be welded to the running boards most likely.!

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Originally Posted by No.3

Body on a Toyota Hilux is not monocoque it's body on ladder chassis. The question then is, what are the steps welded too, body or chassis?

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Includes, but not limited to, is my reading of that. Eg: Weld a towbar to something and see how you get on

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Heating, drilling, welding or cutting the vehicle structure, modifying a roof bow, or modifying any part of the structure would be considered to weaken it

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Originally Posted by Finnwolf

Ironically using brackets that would be welded to the running boards most likely.!

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It's about the welding to the chassis, not the construction of the running boards

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Originally Posted by Tommy

Includes, but not limited to, is my reading of that. Eg: Weld a towbar to something and see how you get on

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Yep correct, but if you welded the steps to the tub or deck on a ute WOF man won't bat an eyelid. I don't think the original post specifies what/where they are welded (if they did I missed it). If the WOF guy is concerned that they are welded to the underside of the body - he might run into an issue over interpretation of the 'structural modification' bit, but if they are welded to the chassis or even a factory production bracket then under the new rules it needs to be approved. There are probably a few ways to attack that, but as people have said probably the easiest is avoid it by cutting the steps off and welding a bracket to the step. Then boost some new holes through the chassis and bracket and out with the black paint and the 'mud and cowcrap on a brush' trick... After the chassis has been welded to arguably the problem can't be just removed but the rules don't really reflect reality.

I had a discussion recently with a WOF man over a bracket welded onto the lower radiator support bracket of a 4x4 - he was going down the track of requiring a cert on it as a structural mod. Lower radiator support bracket isn't a structural member on that vehicle (might be on some). He reluctantly conceded the point as two 25mm long brackets to mount an electric cooling fan shroud probably won't affect the crash performance one would think. My read on it is that the WOF men are running quite scared as it would seem that any decision they make that results in an identifiable result from a prang or the like can result in them carrying the lot now.

The main point in my OP is that this vehicle has never failed a wof in 31 years....so why now ?
The owner is workshop/vehicle manager for Nelmac, so I think he knows a bit about cars/trucks etc.
He is just mystified about the apparently sudden change.

I'm picking the WOF agent is covering their butt to be honest. And I don't blame them, the way some of the rules are written and there is comeback on the issuing agent in many cases.

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Originally Posted by Tommy

It's about the welding to the chassis, not the construction of the running boards

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I know of quite a few heavy trailers whos brackets for the wheel arch covers are welded onto chassis ..mudguards,thats the term I was looking for..and they fly through a COF...arguably harder than a WOF....

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I know of quite a few heavy trailers whos brackets for the wheel arch covers are welded onto chassis ..mudguards,thats the term I was looking for..and they fly through a COF...arguably harder than a WOF....

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Yup but if it was factory or certified it's fine.
Back in the day I was a good enough welder to do a little of that stuff (with caveats I wont go into here). We wouldnt do anything without engineers support.
That included putting bigger hinge pivots on for tubs (something like 2" diameter with applicable new bosses of over original 1-3/4"). Something like that, plus back chassis frames for ringfeder etc.
Again always with engineers support and from memory laminated chassis were another thing altgether

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I know of quite a few heavy trailers whos brackets for the wheel arch covers are welded onto chassis ..mudguards,thats the term I was looking for..and they fly through a COF...arguably harder than a WOF....

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Plus the welds crack and get welded again and again. Still pass thru COF.

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Originally Posted by threefootsix

Believe me, the inspector will be quite happy to pass the vehicle once some one has provided a statement that it complies. They really don't care either way, they just have a job to do and a boxes to tick before they can give you your sticker.

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Not always the case, I used to have an S15 silvia which had some bucket seats I put in it. Laws are that if the seat is designed for the model of car and bolt in without modification they don't require certification but say for example you take a standard bucket seat and weld it onto the factory mount it would then require certification. The pricks at North city motors failed the WOF saying it required a certification, I printed out the laws regarding it along with the receipts that showed the seat was made for the model of car, I even got a signed message from VTNZ backing up that it was indeed legal but they refused to even look at it. Took it to VTNZ and got the WOF straight away. Never went back to the useless pricks, its one thing to get it wrong......its entirely another to be ignorant to the point where you won't even consider evidence that would suggest you're talking out your ass.

Any work or mods on a wof vehicle is and absolute nightmare, cof much easier as they are used to the system.

My Sr5 ln106 had the factory steps bolted to factory mounts on the body.

I built rock sliders and welded 16mm thick steel drilled and tapped blocks on the chassis to mount them to so the vehicles entire weight could be lifted on them.
This was certified along with many other mods.

Wof guys will be covering there arse as basically any non factory welding on a chassis or body of a wof vehicle needs someone to sign off on and in the top of the south especially there is fuck all wof lvv certifiers and often they only know their specific field of interest .

A while back I put 1200 in the wheelbase and a meter on the arse of a 40 series cruisers chassis for a camper....it already had 80 series driveline.

Local lvv certifier tried to tell me the chassis "must" be cut on a 45 degree angle.
It was basically impossible to achieve that in the space constraints.
I asked WTF we cut and lengthen or shorten vehicles weekly that run over 50 tonne GCM with a square cut and full penitration weld!
He said it says so here in my book and I have to follow the book.
Give me that book I said.
The book said " where practicable the chassis must be cut on a 45 degree angle....bla nla bla"

Key point where practicable....It wasn't practicable so I did 3 square joins each side with doubler/fish plates each side and a couple extra cross members.
All certed all good.
But if hadn't asked the question and actually read his certifiers manual myself the job would have been impossible to do legally.

The screws have been tightened on both cof and wof guys and girls so the default position is to fail anything that might be open to enterpritation.

Its a load of bollocks anyway. I've done all sorts of things to chassis when I was in the trade of fixing bent shit.

Cut them, welded them back together, heated them up red hot and pulled them straight again. All things that you are not supposed to do now, we did back then and there was never an issue.

Mainly hi lux and land cruiser chassis were the worst to work on because they were well put together. Nissans and Holdens not so much.

The modern ones are more susceptible to failure from improper welding or heating as they are lighter/thinner sections with sometimes some quite trick metal alloys being employed. Not the problem for the OP's situation, but caught in the same rules...