Any Diesel or tractor mechs on here?

Yesterday on the way back from a job my tractor started to spew coolant from the reservoir and warming up, didn't overheat.
Topped it up to make it back home. Let it cool down then topped up coolant to proper level. Took belt off water pump and turned the engine on with reservoir cap off, few second later coolant was blowing out.
Am I right that it has a blown head gasket and combustion gas blows into cooling system?
There is no oil present in coolant , there were bubbles in tank first time I opened it.
No coolant in engine oil.

If it's a HG could I remove rockers without the need of re-setting timing? I think I can do a HG job (did a few on SJ413s) the only thing that worries me is the timing.
Water pump got replaced 15Hrs ago, cost me 2.5k so would be keen to fix myself. I would image this sort of work could go up to the 5-6K mark.
Engine is JD 4045TR

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks
BF

@boarFreak

As @Mauser308 has mentioned or maybe one of the following, and in the order of cheap to expensive to replace

1, head gasket
2, cracked head
3, cylinder liner damage

You can by test kits that will indicate if its combustion gas in the coolant.
I don't think they are an over head cam engine. If that is the case, removing the head should be a pretty simple operation and you wouldn't need to worry about any timing issues.
You would need to remove the head to diagnose any of the 3 issues above!
You will have to do your home work though as the bolts may be "torque to yield" so would need to be replaced.

Check out You Tube to see if there is anything on there about head gasket replacement on these engines.

If it was mine, I'd be giving it a go! I reckon an SJ413 would be more of a mission!

Good Luck

Could even just be something as simple as a stuck thermostat creating a blockage.
Or water pump vanes have fallen off and coolant isn't flowing properly. From memory some JD pumps use a plastic impellor

1 Question? Why take W/pump belt off then run it? Kinda making an issue there by not allowing the coolant to flow properly.

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Originally Posted by cambo

Could even just be something as simple as a stuck thermostat creating a blockage.
Or water pump vanes have fallen off and coolant isn't flowing properly. From memory some JD pumps use a plastic impellor

1 Question? Why take W/pump belt off then run it? Kinda making an issue there by not allowing the coolant to flow properly.

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To see if the pipe is blocked somewhere and the pump is building up pressure, that was my first guess. Without the pump running the only other way getting pressure in there would be engine leak.
Cooling system was cold and engine only ran 30 sec and started pushing out coolant.

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Originally Posted by Fireflite

@boarFreak

As @Mauser308 has mentioned or maybe one of the following, and in the order of cheap to expensive to replace

1, head gasket
2, cracked head
3, cylinder liner damage

You can by test kits that will indicate if its combustion gas in the coolant.
I don't think they are an over head cam engine. If that is the case, removing the head should be a pretty simple operation and you wouldn't need to worry about any timing issues.
You would need to remove the head to diagnose any of the 3 issues above!
You will have to do your home work though as the bolts may be "torque to yield" so would need to be replaced.

Check out You Tube to see if there is anything on there about head gasket replacement on these engines.

If it was mine, I'd be giving it a go! I reckon an SJ413 would be more of a mission!

Good Luck

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Thanks.
It is overhead, rocker arms and everything have to come off.
Forgot to mention the return hose between engine and radiator filled up with air too when tested without pump running.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boar Freak

To see if the pipe is blocked somewhere and the pump is building up pressure, that was my first guess. Without the pump running the only other way getting pressure in there would be engine leak.
Cooling system was cold and engine only ran 30 sec and started pushing out coolant.

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No all it will do is cause an air blockage and the temp rises quickly and then blows out the coolant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boar Freak

Thanks.
It is overhead, rocker arms and everything have to come off.
Forgot to mention the return hose between engine and radiator filled up with air too when tested without pump running.

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Coolant wont flow with the pump not running and then as the temp rises any air turns locked in anywhere in the system will to steam and blow out the coolant.
If you can get a pressure tester and pressurise the cooling system to see if there's a leak. Can remove the glowplugs and crank over to see if coolant leaking into combustion area.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

I'd be looking to the previous work myself - i.e. what has changed? In this case the work done was changing the water pump - and that's part of the system that is misbehaving now I'd put money on something not done right. Also another option once you've diagnosed is a dose of irontite (salesmans head gasket replacement) might seal something up if it's leaking combustion gas.

For a leak to be doing what you say it's a fairly substantial leak i.e. straight out of somewhere under pressure like a chamber. Considering that the coolant system is pressurised the coolant system is getting considerably overpowered to be taking that much gas. If you aren't getting coolant going the other way then I'm picking that if it isn't related to the water pump job it's from a water cooled something like a turbo that's got exhaust gas at high pressure right next to a coolant passage.

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It was going ok until yesterday.
The turbo is hooked to the oil system.
The pump job was done by a proper tractor service firm so I hoped they did a proper job.

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Originally Posted by cambo

No all it will do is cause an air blockage and the temp rises quickly and then blows out the coolant.

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Would it heat up enough in 30 sec? Will have to look around if anyone have a tester in my hood.

Try warming it up from cold with the radiator cap off. May have an air lock

Do you have a compressor, I have just done a cylinder head on my mates land Cruiser, I have an adapter that fits in most glow plugs and a few for spark plugs you can borrow. You simply put compressed air into the cylinder and if the radiator blows bubbles it’s a gasket or cracked head and you then also know which cylinder is the problem. I like to know what’s wrong before I remove anything.
How much above the Hutt are you and is it the one near Wellington. I’m happy to assist. James

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Originally Posted by 2post

Do you have a compressor, I have just done a cylinder head on my mates land Cruiser, I have an adapter that fits in most glow plugs and a few for spark plugs you can borrow. You simply put compressed air into the cylinder and if the radiator blows bubbles it’s a gasket or cracked head and you then also know which cylinder is the problem. I like to know what’s wrong before I remove anything.
How much above the Hutt are you and is it the one near Wellington. I’m happy to assist. James

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Hi James
That would be awesome, thanks. Am in Moonshine Valley, about 30 min away from you.

Did much the same on my v8 straight after a rebuild.
Had the head gasket fail on the break in runs.
Dicked around and made a spark plug adapter but dont really know why. It was 99% a gasket.
Good permatorque types and it was failing on a couple of cylinders.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

Big arse suddenly developing air lock...

In my *limited* tractor experience (mostly marine) I haven't seen many head gaskets shit themselves that quickly i.e. one day fine next day big arse coolant blow like it's decided to be an extra in Free Willy...

More likely in my humble opinion to either be a crack or something that hasn't sealed up during a repair job done previously. In this case the thing has had work done on the cooling system, so that's highly suspect as a contributing factor. If that little donkey is wet sleeved - it's possible that an air blockage has lead to a hot sleeve and a failed gasket. Seen that once before but it's rare in my book.

Also unlikely to heat up from cold to coolant blow 120+deg in 30 sec, that's a pressure leak into the coolant system from my experience. And coolant normally goes two ways when there's a leak - so when it's cold there is likely to be a coolant loss to somewhere however small it may be. I don't know anything of that small a JD motor, so I don't have first hand experience of type design flaws (mitsi diesels in some cases had an issue with their small tractor motors where the exhaust side of the head didn't have enough head bolts making them prone to failure and blown head gaskets).

Yeah 2post's suggestion is good, done that once or twice. Another way is disconnect the injector pump from the fuel supply, and set the exhaust valves to a slight cracked (not enough clearance) to bleed pressure on all but one cylinder. Bar the engine over to ensure it's not going to smack a valve into the piston, and if all is good wind it over on the starter motor. Reset and repeat for all cylinders, one at a time developing pressure and see which one pops smoke as it were...

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I hope its "just a gasket" or something simple ,could live without pouring a heap of money in the machine. Its worse then a pokey.
This is it.
https://www.deere.co.nz/en/industria...-m-4-5l-hf280/

Oh Deer:P;)


Sorry could not help it:)

the water pump doesnt actually pressurise the system all it does is circulate the water you could do a cylender leak test to check for cracked head or head gasket

Cracked head

Remove it and get it tested


The TTY head bolts will need replacing as will the multi layered steel head gasket

Use a razor blade to clean up the head and block surface, NEVER use sandpaper on the surfaces when using a multi layered steel head gasket

You often have to do a few hours of running once repaired (without antifreeze - just distilled water) to help the head gasket seal

Andrew

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Originally Posted by Sideshow

Oh Deer:P;)


Sorry could not help it:)

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I know. You can't expect much from a company who can't even spell Deer properly :D

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

Cracked head

Remove it and get it tested


The TTY head bolts will need replacing as will the multi layered steel head gasket

Use a razor blade to clean up the head and block surface, NEVER use sandpaper on the surfaces when using a multi layered steel head gasket

You often have to do a few hours of running once repaired (without antifreeze - just distilled water) to help the head gasket seal

Andrew

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Yeah this
John Deeres are know for it
Is there moisture coming out the breather when you start it up that will tell you.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

Yeah most likely but its quite sudden for a crack to propagate, I'm still thinking something not done right with the water pump job.

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A crack starts small and grows, you don’t notice the symptoms until the cooling system can’t handle it -so To us it “ appears” quickly

The cylinder head job I have just done had nothing wrong with the cooling system. Sometimes a cracked head is a symptom of other issues and sometimes it’s the cause.

Pour some Bars leaks into it and then sell it on Trademe.