Thread: Budget Family 4WD

Originally Posted by Jake77

In a similar situation to the OP, curious what the recommendations from the experts are on manual vs auto in the early 90’s bighorns etc? Not looking at anything too extreme in terms of off-roading. Like the idea of teaching kids in a manual but they seem fairly light on the ground compared to autos.

An auto gives smoother control in the rough and rocky stuff, no lose of traction with gear changes. I think autos are better in river crossing scenarios too as you can't get water into the clutch and lose drive.
Manual better for teaching the kids how to drive, but adds another task to the whole learning to drive off road scenario.
Manual is better for faster takeoffs to try clear obstacles unless you are peddling good HP in front of an auto.
Can't crash start/tow start an auto easily if starter dies or flat battery. (carry a spare starter and jumper leads in an auto just in case.)

No matter what you buy, do `t choose CVT gear box.

Originally Posted by Black Rabbit

No matter what you buy, do `t choose CVT gear box.

Not a lot of choice these days, they are all either full CVT or possibly worse, multi-clutched 8 and 10-speed autos with lots of spindly little bearings and shafts...

Originally Posted by No.3

Not a lot of choice these days, they are all either full CVT or possibly worse, multi-clutched 8 and 10-speed autos with lots of spindly little bearings and shafts...

It may because nowadays not many people like us, have some little basic mechanical knowledge. Have you seen somebody on the roadside were waiting for tow truck, only because they do `t know how to change tyer.

I like my xtrail which is 2.0 AT, has lots of good memories with it, fishing, hunting, road trips. But sadly, if I can `t go back before next spring, have to let it go since my boy has sitting in there for 30 months.

90s 3.1 Bighorns are pretty sound old girls. They are a value vehicle - very underpriced for what you get. Quite good motor though not as good as the earlier excellent 87-91 Bighorn 2.8T. Good manual and auto boxes - the auto is an Aisin-Warner box and aisin supplies autos to huge number of vehicle manufacturers including Toyota. 3.1 drivetrain same as in earlier 2.8 Isuzus and it is strong. Did many hundred offroad tracks in my earlier modified 2.8 Isuzus ( front and rear lockers, 2" body and 2" suspension lifts, motor tune etc) and they were very tough. Alot more so than my prado. Isuzu stronger truck offroad.

These days for hunting and occasional 4WD I run a 96 3.1 Isuzu Bighorn and they are a very comfortable ride on and offroad. This one has a tight LSD, 2" lift, 32" muds, snorkel, motor tune, breathers etc and its great for hunting and up to moderate club spec. They are not bad on diesel either at about 9.6L per 100ks on open road (27-29mpg). Not many manuals around now, and you don't need it. After near 2 decades running manual trucks for offroading, myself and 3-4 older clubbies now all run autos. You can still lock them in low 1 or 2 as you wish, but pop them in D and that auto on or offroad drive is alot easier. Never thought we'd say that..

90s 3.1 Bighorn a good option if say under 300ks - mine runs well but needed swap gearbox at 317ks. Just make sure you do full mechanical checkover by someone who knows 4wds well - I can refer you to mate who runs Diesel Services here in Chch.

PS - might sell mine before too long - good sound condition and good setup for Canterbury 4wd conditions. After I find a bloody intermittent electrical glitch.....

Club will rate southern river trips not only on conditions you see in the moment, but for safety - on what can happen in those mountains rivers very quickly. McCauley river in low summer conditions is an easy grade 2-3. Standard Mitsi and Prado 4wd will do these. Easy crossings down low, becoming a little more rocky and less predictable as you cross further up. Summer usually ok, and winter can be ok as alot of high country rain is locked in as snow. Can be very tricky with nor-westers, in snow melt periods, and of course with unexpected rain which can change a 5 cumec (5 tonne per second) river flow into a 50 tonne per second flow in 45 minutes. Been there - got out in time. 50 cumecs is 25 Prados coming down the river at you every second.. Then they can go onto 500 cumecs/tonnes per second in a matter of hours. You don't want that.. We may know a river and its crossings very well, but riverbeds can change hugely after flood events. You drive into what was an easy rock crossing, and straight into and over some big boulders and truck can't move. If you're alone - big trouble.

So as clubs we factor in safety - we are very careful with forecasting, and use well setup trucks. Any of the Canterbury mountain fed rivers can become very dangerous very quickly - Wilberforce, Clyde, Lawrence, Avoca, Harper, Waimak, Waiau, Hurunui etc. Even little Selwyn river near me - can change very rapidly. Dry most of the year, it was running at just 2 cumecs/tonnes per second a week ago, but in matter of hours up to 49 tonnes. Peaked at 330 tonnes per sec last flood. Huge!

By all means wander up the MaCaulay/Godley in a 4x4 - lovely spot. But be very sure on forecasting and for own and passenger safety have good truck spec (lift, snorkel, some recovery gear etc) for that changeable terrain. We see the stories on the news - death or two in recent times - and we hear of a lot more public misadventures at club meetings. Good to prepare well.

Originally Posted by mudgripz

Club will rate southern river trips not only on conditions you see in the moment, but for safety - on what can happen in those mountains rivers very quickly. McCauley river in low summer conditions is an easy grade 2-3. Standard Mitsi and Prado 4wd will do these. Easy crossings down low, becoming a little more rocky and less predictable as you cross further up. Summer usually ok, and winter can be ok as alot of high country rain is locked in as snow. Can be very tricky with nor-westers, in snow melt periods, and of course with unexpected rain which can change a 5 cumec (5 tonne per second) river flow into a 50 tonne per second flow in 45 minutes. Been there - got out in time. 50 cumecs is 25 Prados coming down the river at you every second.. Then they can go onto 500 cumecs/tonnes per second in a matter of hours. You don't want that.. We may know a river and its crossings very well, but riverbeds can change hugely after flood events. You drive into what was an easy rock crossing, and straight into and over some big boulders and truck can't move. If you're alone - big trouble.

So as clubs we factor in safety - we are very careful with forecasting, and use well setup trucks. Any of the Canterbury mountain fed rivers can become very dangerous very quickly - Wilberforce, Clyde, Lawrence, Avoca, Harper, Waimak, Waiau, Hurunui etc. Even little Selwyn river near me - can change very rapidly. Dry most of the year, it was running at just 2 cumecs/tonnes per second a week ago, but in matter of hours up to 49 tonnes. Peaked at 330 tonnes per sec last flood. Huge!

By all means wander up the MaCaulay/Godley in a 4x4 - lovely spot. But be very sure on forecasting and for own and passenger safety have good truck spec (lift, snorkel, some recovery gear etc) for that changeable terrain. We see the stories on the news - death or two in recent times - and we hear of a lot more public misadventures at club meetings. Good to prepare well.

Have done a few leery crossings, been bellied in silt, stuck on boulders, floated off a couple of times, been stuck on lips. Got good at using a chain block, ground anchors and a shovel. Scariest crossing ever was main channels between Lilybank and the motorshed, in a dead engined double cab hilux on the end of a tow rope attached to a 40 series Land cruiser flat deck, not funny starting to drift in the flow watching the water push across the flatdeck, that's me on the radio shouting at the driver to pull his finger out! (might not be the actual words used, but it's a family show....)

Now days, I don't like the look of it, I just go naah, and go somewhere else. There are advantages in going in multiple trucks.

Appreciate the advice fellas. @mudgripz if you have any pics be great to see what a well equipped BH looks like. Beyond the regular fluids change what do you reckon she costs to keep on (and off) the road each year?

Yep.

In the OP MBraga mentioned he wanted to do the McCauley - southern mountains rivers. This is very different terrain to the Canterbury plains, to north or south Canterbury downs country, or rolling Waikato terrain etc - know the latter well. So easy here to cruise up a river to a hut, then notice a bit of cloud cover happening, and next thing the river's rising rapidly due to a weather event further up in the Alps.

When you head into these mountains, either on foot or in the truck, the best policy is to RESPECT them - and prepare well. As 257 notes - if you have a doubt about it it, don't go there!

Jake - here's a pic of a previous 2.8T Bighorn up in north Canterbury foothills. Bloke in the pic is gadgetman. Rimfire heaven there for many years - over 1000 bunnies per evening at times, plus the occasional deer or pig. This truck was modified to near full club spec with 4" of lift, 33" muds, locker, snorkel, tune, breathers and all sorts of other mods. Also set as hunter with rear roof cutout and frame for heavy spotlighting at night. Was superb for that. Best of the six 4x4 trucks I've had easily - and that includes Prado, Navarra, D4D Toyota etc. Tough, economical and reliable. But...yesterday's trucks now...



Will get pic of the newer 96 Bighorn - it is setup for hunting and Canterbury 4wd outings to moderate club spec - i.e. max grade 4. You don't need as much modification as truck above. Re maintenance - you won't have much maintenance cost increase for occasional hunting or light offroading. It is when we start to really push the trucks in big challenge terrain eg coast-to-coast tracks, big bog holes, deep river crossings etc that costs rise exponentially for any make. Starter motors, alternators, wheel bearings, seals etc etc... you name it

Hmmm.. unfortunately nature has just underlined the points above regarding safe preparation and driving in southern river terrain.

Last night a man was killed trying to cross a swollen stream ford in a vehicle at North Taieri near Dunedin. Two other passengers managed to get to safety. And in Lees Valley in North Canterbury at 9pm last night - in heavy rain - a man had to be choppered out of his vehicle when stuck in the Okuku river. One lucky boy! Okuku normally a wee river you can cross in a car.. Someone choppered to safety when they went off the road into Heathcote river in Chch city also..

This happens only too often which is why clubs are very clear on truck types, truck setup, safety/recovery setup etc before you go into these environments. A sad lesson but a real one..

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/129...flooded-stream

Jake - as requested here's couple of pics of present 96 Bighorn with basic mods to make it a competent offroader, and safer in challenging terrain, rivers etc. This one has 2" suspension lift, 8" rims, 32" muds, tight LSD with Redline in it, snorkel, rated tow hooks, breathers etc. A very sound hunter now in all sorts of country - and set to moderate club spec. Went for a potter in it today out by Birdling's Flat up and round some dunes. Went well. Good fun

Cheers @mudgripz, nice to see what a good honest functional vehicle looks like vs. the shiny tricked out units with massive tyres, lots of chrome and big exhausts you see round.

@mudgripz
Very refreshing pictures from what’s starting to be seen as a ‘basic 4wd’ with nothing practical other than big bull bars, light bars and roof top tents.

What’s a set up like that going to cost at the moment?

You don't see a whole lot of modern utes at 4wd club nights though more coming as earlier trucks disappear. But preference is still 1990s to 2000 trucks. Less electronics, much less to go wrong in the rivers, often stronger build, easily modified. For example - of six long term 4wd mates there are two 90s Bighorns modded as mine, one 90s prado modded as mine, and three VX series 80 cruisers - all six are 1990-96. By preference.

A good sound condition 1992-1997 Isuzu Bighorn with 3.1 TD (4JG2) might cost $5k to $15k. Never buy the 97-2000 Bighorn/Wizard with the 3.0 (4JX1) motor - absolute crapper of a motor. In standard road setup the 90s Bighorns will do fine in selected dry conditions, but will be useless once you hit mud,wet clay, snow, wet terrain, soft river beds etc. Setup costs to bring this truck to general offroad competence and club spec safety spec - roughly:

* Rims (wider for bigger tyres) = anywhere from $200 a set on trademe or to $750 for a set of white spoke steels. Must get right offset. Note you cannot change tyre size much without encountering certification issues.
* Set of mudgrips = allow $12-1500 after trade-ins.
* Suspension lift for IFS vehicle (most aren't beam axle now) = Say $600 for taller eg coils and altering torsion bars on front (and if poss doing balljoint flip on A arm to recentre CVs some.)
* Snorkel - often $150 or less from Hawker Supplies on trademe, plus $300 or so to fit = $450.
* Breather tubes fitted to diffs, gearbox etc and run up out of way into engine bay etc to prevent water ingress - $150 tubes and labour
* Rear LSD - Isuzu limited diffs very good esp with Redline Heavy Duty Shockproof oil in them. Have had front and rear lockers, air lockers, E lockers, auto lockers, and a good isuzu lsd 95% as good. Experience. Cost maybe $450 and $150 to fit with oils = $600. Aussie auto Lokka nearer a grand fitted - good value locker esp for rear.
* Safety hooks - rated hooks bolted through front chassis member and held on with 8.8 standard high tensile 12mm bolts. Factory hooks weak. For rear, if you have a heavy duty towbar securely bolted either side to chassis, then remove towball and use a rated D shackle. NEVER try extracting someone in a pressure tow using towball. Low rated, break off like a missile, and kill people - happened in Southland while back. Costs say $250 allowing for some front chassis plate mods.
* Recovery gear - an 8-11meter 8000kg minimum 'snatch strap', and a longer heavy towrope. Also some kind of ground anchor. Cost = $3-400. Note if you're travelling together someone else may have a winch. Winch not necessary - have never had one - but useful on one of the trucks.
* A PLB if travelling alone.

So your truck might cost you say $7k, and mods might be $4.5k - if you don't do work yourself or have a mate to do some. These simple mods - esp if you can fit 32" or 33" tyres - will bring truck up to moderate club spec. Make a very significant difference from standard road capabilities. Chatting with mate tonight who is currently president of Canterbury Combined 4wd Clubs, and he and I would agree on these points. There's a lot more too covering variety of weather and terrain conditions etc which comes with years - but every club man starts with training days. I've just asked him to get Cantab combined clubs to consider a list of offroading advices anyone can access - sites like this one where alot of blokes use 4wds. Help stop some of the 'accidents' that happen so often. We'll see..