Thread: Budget Family 4WD

Originally Posted by MBraga

Hi All,

Thanks for your replies, especially to Mike for a great chat over the phone.

Although I haven't decided yet, I am tending to get a petrol one, which is more suitable for the intended usage.

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/c...ing/3603748383


I have added to the equation the below 2006 Pajero

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/c...ing/3383016022

Now I'm wondering what the risk might be (if any) if the previous owner has used the truck for heavy towing.

Again, thanks for your time and input.

that surf is way over priced
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/c...ing/3669119090 - $9,000 cheaper, same amount of km's, just been serviced fresh cambelt only 10K old, snorkels are only afew hundred dollars and you have $8500 to upgrade what NEEDS upgraded if it needs it, repaint the bumpers maybe 1000$ and you have the exact same car
just my view

I've got one of those surfs and apart from liking petrol it's one of the best things i've bought. done a lot of miles towing heavy boats/trailers and never had an issue. the one on trademe with a bit of a tidy looks like a good buy

In a similar situation to the OP, curious what the recommendations from the experts are on manual vs auto in the early 90’s bighorns etc? Not looking at anything too extreme in terms of off-roading. Like the idea of teaching kids in a manual but they seem fairly light on the ground compared to autos.

No matter what you buy, do `t choose CVT gear box.

Originally Posted by Black Rabbit

No matter what you buy, do `t choose CVT gear box.

Not a lot of choice these days, they are all either full CVT or possibly worse, multi-clutched 8 and 10-speed autos with lots of spindly little bearings and shafts...

Originally Posted by Jake77

In a similar situation to the OP, curious what the recommendations from the experts are on manual vs auto in the early 90’s bighorns etc? Not looking at anything too extreme in terms of off-roading. Like the idea of teaching kids in a manual but they seem fairly light on the ground compared to autos.

Yes, thats a thing now. You have to go looking to find a manual trans vehicle. Mostly utes but even they are almost all Autos now.

Originally Posted by Jake77

In a similar situation to the OP, curious what the recommendations from the experts are on manual vs auto in the early 90’s bighorns etc? Not looking at anything too extreme in terms of off-roading. Like the idea of teaching kids in a manual but they seem fairly light on the ground compared to autos.

An auto gives smoother control in the rough and rocky stuff, no lose of traction with gear changes. I think autos are better in river crossing scenarios too as you can't get water into the clutch and lose drive.
Manual better for teaching the kids how to drive, but adds another task to the whole learning to drive off road scenario.
Manual is better for faster takeoffs to try clear obstacles unless you are peddling good HP in front of an auto.
Can't crash start/tow start an auto easily if starter dies or flat battery. (carry a spare starter and jumper leads in an auto just in case.)

90s 3.1 Bighorns are pretty sound old girls. They are a value vehicle - very underpriced for what you get. Quite good motor though not as good as the earlier excellent 87-91 Bighorn 2.8T. Good manual and auto boxes - the auto is an Aisin-Warner box and aisin supplies autos to huge number of vehicle manufacturers including Toyota. 3.1 drivetrain same as in earlier 2.8 Isuzus and it is strong. Did many hundred offroad tracks in my earlier modified 2.8 Isuzus ( front and rear lockers, 2" body and 2" suspension lifts, motor tune etc) and they were very tough. Alot more so than my prado. Isuzu stronger truck offroad.

These days for hunting and occasional 4WD I run a 96 3.1 Isuzu Bighorn and they are a very comfortable ride on and offroad. This one has a tight LSD, 2" lift, 32" muds, snorkel, motor tune, breathers etc and its great for hunting and up to moderate club spec. They are not bad on diesel either at about 9.6L per 100ks on open road (27-29mpg). Not many manuals around now, and you don't need it. After near 2 decades running manual trucks for offroading, myself and 3-4 older clubbies now all run autos. You can still lock them in low 1 or 2 as you wish, but pop them in D and that auto on or offroad drive is alot easier. Never thought we'd say that..

90s 3.1 Bighorn a good option if say under 300ks - mine runs well but needed swap gearbox at 317ks. Just make sure you do full mechanical checkover by someone who knows 4wds well - I can refer you to mate who runs Diesel Services here in Chch.

PS - might sell mine before too long - good sound condition and good setup for Canterbury 4wd conditions. After I find a bloody intermittent electrical glitch.....

Originally Posted by mudgripz

MBraga - I see you are in Christchurch like me. Chch is 4x4 central - good clubs, great tracks throughout the south accessible in a day or weekend from here. Canterbury, Reefton, West Coast, Central etc. But if you are getting interested in offroading and plan McCauley Godley type river trips, a soft road all wheel drive will not be advisable. Too many limitations - Flyblown's cautionary advice is right - as is No 3s.

As a 20+ year Chch 4x4 club offroader myself I suggest you decide what level of offroad activity you want to do first - and buy to that. We grade all tracks from 1-5, 1 being easy farm tracks and 5 being coast to coast style truck busters. Been there, done that.. To take a soft roader out into southern river terrain is dangerous. That river can be a 2 or a 5 - often within 30 minutes. River levels rise very quickly, stranding you up some mountain valley, and with low ground clearance you're also at real risk of parking on boulders you can't see. Anything other than ideal dry conditions and you're in deep shite with road tyres or all-terrains, and low ground clearance. We don't even allow them on trips.

You need a truck for the task, and modified for it. Example - these days my 4wding is somewhat easier, and I run a 96 Bighorn diesel. Good basic unit with strong drivetrain, 32" muds, 2" lift, tight LSD, tuned, snorkel, safety hooks/equipment etc - and that's basic spec, adequate for moderate southern offroad tracks. I wouldn't want less. A Mitsi as suggested, Bighorn, Prado (watch the 1kz motors) etc can do your job - can all be modified to get you in and out of our mountain terrain safely. Also important - try and find others to do your trips with. Travelling alone as a newbie up some mountain river is not a great idea - can go wrong very badly. Go to a 4wd club night and listen, then chat to people about tracks/trucks/mods. Find some mates, and find out what you need. You do not need to bash up your truck and have it parked in the shed after every trip. I never have - even doing toughest coast-to-coast tracks. You learn to drive WITHIN your truck spec and keep it safe and sound. Canterbury Recreational 4wd club is good -variety of trip levels.

You may end up with two vehicles - your modded diesel truck, plus a wee commuter car. You won't get an under 120k truck, modded, for your 15k budget. Most of the clubbies go for 'pre-electronic' (to some extent) 90s vehicles - and they usually have 200-350k on the clock, and we don't often use them also as day drivers. If you want to chat about your truck plans, feel free to PM me.

@mudgripz - What club grade would the Macauly River be? both my trucks, 97 Mitsi Lwb 3.5p/auto and 99 Prado D/manual have done that river valley more times than can count, never had any dramas due to vehical fault/failure (we will ignore the failures by the driver....)

Club will rate southern river trips not only on conditions you see in the moment, but for safety - on what can happen in those mountains rivers very quickly. McCauley river in low summer conditions is an easy grade 2-3. Standard Mitsi and Prado 4wd will do these. Easy crossings down low, becoming a little more rocky and less predictable as you cross further up. Summer usually ok, and winter can be ok as alot of high country rain is locked in as snow. Can be very tricky with nor-westers, in snow melt periods, and of course with unexpected rain which can change a 5 cumec (5 tonne per second) river flow into a 50 tonne per second flow in 45 minutes. Been there - got out in time. 50 cumecs is 25 Prados coming down the river at you every second.. Then they can go onto 500 cumecs/tonnes per second in a matter of hours. You don't want that.. We may know a river and its crossings very well, but riverbeds can change hugely after flood events. You drive into what was an easy rock crossing, and straight into and over some big boulders and truck can't move. If you're alone - big trouble.

So as clubs we factor in safety - we are very careful with forecasting, and use well setup trucks. Any of the Canterbury mountain fed rivers can become very dangerous very quickly - Wilberforce, Clyde, Lawrence, Avoca, Harper, Waimak, Waiau, Hurunui etc. Even little Selwyn river near me - can change very rapidly. Dry most of the year, it was running at just 2 cumecs/tonnes per second a week ago, but in matter of hours up to 49 tonnes. Peaked at 330 tonnes per sec last flood. Huge!

By all means wander up the MaCaulay/Godley in a 4x4 - lovely spot. But be very sure on forecasting and for own and passenger safety have good truck spec (lift, snorkel, some recovery gear etc) for that changeable terrain. We see the stories on the news - death or two in recent times - and we hear of a lot more public misadventures at club meetings. Good to prepare well.

Appreciate the advice fellas. @mudgripz if you have any pics be great to see what a well equipped BH looks like. Beyond the regular fluids change what do you reckon she costs to keep on (and off) the road each year?

Originally Posted by mudgripz

Club will rate southern river trips not only on conditions you see in the moment, but for safety - on what can happen in those mountains rivers very quickly. McCauley river in low summer conditions is an easy grade 2-3. Standard Mitsi and Prado 4wd will do these. Easy crossings down low, becoming a little more rocky and less predictable as you cross further up. Summer usually ok, and winter can be ok as alot of high country rain is locked in as snow. Can be very tricky with nor-westers, in snow melt periods, and of course with unexpected rain which can change a 5 cumec (5 tonne per second) river flow into a 50 tonne per second flow in 45 minutes. Been there - got out in time. 50 cumecs is 25 Prados coming down the river at you every second.. Then they can go onto 500 cumecs/tonnes per second in a matter of hours. You don't want that.. We may know a river and its crossings very well, but riverbeds can change hugely after flood events. You drive into what was an easy rock crossing, and straight into and over some big boulders and truck can't move. If you're alone - big trouble.

So as clubs we factor in safety - we are very careful with forecasting, and use well setup trucks. Any of the Canterbury mountain fed rivers can become very dangerous very quickly - Wilberforce, Clyde, Lawrence, Avoca, Harper, Waimak, Waiau, Hurunui etc. Even little Selwyn river near me - can change very rapidly. Dry most of the year, it was running at just 2 cumecs/tonnes per second a week ago, but in matter of hours up to 49 tonnes. Peaked at 330 tonnes per sec last flood. Huge!

By all means wander up the MaCaulay/Godley in a 4x4 - lovely spot. But be very sure on forecasting and for own and passenger safety have good truck spec (lift, snorkel, some recovery gear etc) for that changeable terrain. We see the stories on the news - death or two in recent times - and we hear of a lot more public misadventures at club meetings. Good to prepare well.

Have done a few leery crossings, been bellied in silt, stuck on boulders, floated off a couple of times, been stuck on lips. Got good at using a chain block, ground anchors and a shovel. Scariest crossing ever was main channels between Lilybank and the motorshed, in a dead engined double cab hilux on the end of a tow rope attached to a 40 series Land cruiser flat deck, not funny starting to drift in the flow watching the water push across the flatdeck, that's me on the radio shouting at the driver to pull his finger out! (might not be the actual words used, but it's a family show....)

Now days, I don't like the look of it, I just go naah, and go somewhere else. There are advantages in going in multiple trucks.

Yep.

In the OP MBraga mentioned he wanted to do the McCauley - southern mountains rivers. This is very different terrain to the Canterbury plains, to north or south Canterbury downs country, or rolling Waikato terrain etc - know the latter well. So easy here to cruise up a river to a hut, then notice a bit of cloud cover happening, and next thing the river's rising rapidly due to a weather event further up in the Alps.

When you head into these mountains, either on foot or in the truck, the best policy is to RESPECT them - and prepare well. As 257 notes - if you have a doubt about it it, don't go there!

Jake - here's a pic of a previous 2.8T Bighorn up in north Canterbury foothills. Bloke in the pic is gadgetman. Rimfire heaven there for many years - over 1000 bunnies per evening at times, plus the occasional deer or pig. This truck was modified to near full club spec with 4" of lift, 33" muds, locker, snorkel, tune, breathers and all sorts of other mods. Also set as hunter with rear roof cutout and frame for heavy spotlighting at night. Was superb for that. Best of the six 4x4 trucks I've had easily - and that includes Prado, Navarra, D4D Toyota etc. Tough, economical and reliable. But...yesterday's trucks now...



Will get pic of the newer 96 Bighorn - it is setup for hunting and Canterbury 4wd outings to moderate club spec - i.e. max grade 4. You don't need as much modification as truck above. Re maintenance - you won't have much maintenance cost increase for occasional hunting or light offroading. It is when we start to really push the trucks in big challenge terrain eg coast-to-coast tracks, big bog holes, deep river crossings etc that costs rise exponentially for any make. Starter motors, alternators, wheel bearings, seals etc etc... you name it

Originally Posted by No.3

Not a lot of choice these days, they are all either full CVT or possibly worse, multi-clutched 8 and 10-speed autos with lots of spindly little bearings and shafts...

It may because nowadays not many people like us, have some little basic mechanical knowledge. Have you seen somebody on the roadside were waiting for tow truck, only because they do `t know how to change tyer.

I like my xtrail which is 2.0 AT, has lots of good memories with it, fishing, hunting, road trips. But sadly, if I can `t go back before next spring, have to let it go since my boy has sitting in there for 30 months.