Thread: Hybrid cars what to look for.

Originally Posted by No.3

On the subject of used hybrids - most (if not all) of the people I know with hybrids with the plug-in feature started out with a hiss and a roar plugging the things in religiously. Soon gave that up as too much hassle for zero gain as we are semi-rural and everyone around here found the long drag at open road speeds basically meant there was no point plugging in as the requirement to do open road speeds meant they needed to be on dual-power (ICE+battery) anyway and the things just self charged.

They are as much as 50% heavier than the equivalent ICE-only version, so wear things like suspension, joints, tyres, and depending on the driver style brakes much faster than the equivalent ICE version with the same human-fitted load (i.e. if you put the same sh1te in your hybrid that you carried in your ICE version, it will be up to 50% heavier).

It's worth checking as well, if you get the claimed advantages off the hybrid system over pure ICE. Driving an ICE and minimising the load and lead foot on it, will give you say 7.0L/100Km - if you take the same vehicle's hybrid option and return 5.5L/100Km but it costs you a extra $10K to buy it even at todays prices $10K buys you several years of fuel and it gets you most of the way if not all the way to the break-even point where the hybrid starts saving you $$$.

Mandatory check on a used EV or Hybrid is battery health, and thats a real world check by someone that doesn't fall for the tricks like fully resetting the onboard ECU from scratch so that it thinks the battery is newer than it is so gives you a 90% health check on a battery that's actually only 60% of the capacity of a brand new battery (i.e. the ECU check assumes that the battery hasn't done near as much work as it actually has and it rates the battery closer to 100% health that it actually is). Note most of the external checks now should not fall for that, it's some of the system's on-board battery health that this can happen to.

Toyota tend to have less higher-performance hybrid batteries, but they are easier to work on and there is an ability if you have access to the gear to split battery packs out of the entire module and test/replace individual packs or simply replace the entire battery module on a core/exchange basis. A few of the other brands and even models in brands have no such support in NZ, and it's not cost effective to import or ship batteries as they are Dangerous Goods and the shipping line tax is brutal.

I looked into buying a hybrid recently but as I really wanted a station wagon the only really option was a Toyota Feilder hybrid which didn't claim to have the best fuel economy, at least not compared to a Aqua or Prius. I ended up buying a VW Golf wagon which saved probably $8-$10k on the purchase price and I get around 6L/100km which is probably only 1L/100km worse that the Toyota options.

When looking into Hybrids you have to remember there are different types of hybrid.
The Toyota system does appear to be the most relaible system and offers the best fuel economy, outside of a PHEV (provided you make use of the plug in sytem). From the reasearch I did the hybrid battery are probably the most likely part to fail (some last 10 years, others fail in 4-5 years) but this battery is a lot smaller than a full EV battery so isn't too expensive, not like the $20 - $30k you see quoted for a full EV.

There are tonnes of forums out ther for Prius's and other Toyota hybrids, a lot of them seem to discuss the minute difference between the Gen 1, 2, 3 and 4 Prius, with some being better than others.
But for the most part the Toyotas are the way to go.

I would definietly look into the real life fuel consumption though as if you don't do many KMs in a year and the purchase price is a reasonable bit higher it might not be worth it to go hybrid.

Originally Posted by Ned

We got a Toyota aqua. Which turned out to become one of the hottest vehicles around for young criminals in training. However, it's been great so far and even on long trips on the open road still averages 20-22km/l.
If I was buying again today I'd look at the Toyota hybrid station wagon.
We bought of a Toyota lot and it was signature class which gives 5 years on the battery above the usual warranty. Never had to test that so no idea what reality is if there were any issues.

Ditto, my wife gets about 790 km on a tank (35 litres) of petrol..cheap running. A hint: work out how to jump start them, it's tricky. We found out one dark, wet, cold night! Go to a Toyota dealer or hybrid specialist.

Originally Posted by Tahr

You gotta think in the terms of tomorrow, not today. The change in technology is swift and amazing.

Still not seeing anything that's going to reduce the weight of the things substantially enough to make a difference - the limiting factor with the utes is the fact that you hit the limits of Class 1 licence way before the limit of the vehicle, and if you are stacking 3/4 of a ton of hybrid crap into the thing before you start adding paying load to the vehicle. If you aren't loading the vehicle for the purposes of work and it's a glorified car with a big bum there isn't the issues but if you're carting a load for $ the economics of a hybrid ute start looking a little off.

On the other side of it, a hybrid assist on start off with a heavy trailer combined with a regenerative braking setup when on steep downhills stands to make a huge benefit to driveability. A fair bit of experimentation has been done overseas with a electric motor/generator that bolts onto the front of the rear diff and runs on a shortened driveshaft. Bolting a battery pack up under the waste space between the chassis rails and there's a useful advantage in traction and braking, but again the issue is weight and also a smaller effect in performance with the limits on angles the driveshaft can get to.

Wife got given a brand new hybrid for work. Probably be ok for around town but as we dont live in town it used pretty much the same amount of fuel as our non hybrids. Only time it went into electric mode was going down the driveway and in carparks..

Originally Posted by blip

Wife got given a brand new hybrid for work. Probably be ok for around town but as we dont live in town it used pretty much the same amount of fuel as our non hybrids. Only time it went into electric mode was going down the driveway and in carparks..

Yup. Hybrid seems to be a winner at lower speeds, traffic and around town - pretty much the same as full EV's. Take em out of town and the savings drop away to in some cases nothing over an ICE version but at a much higher purchase price.

A wee point that most non techy modern era car owners will not know (and I didn't till last night!) is that everything you do in and with your car, is turned into data and sold to the highest bidder. ALL car companies do it, and ALL fail the most basic of privacy protocols for data. Shag the GF in your car?? gets turned into data and joins your 'profile' at the company HQ. Some Tesla geeks were found out sharing video of Tesla owners copulating in their cars. EVERYTHING that your car does, sees or experiences is turned into data and returned to its maker, to on-sell or categorise sales bub to market sectors.
Ever wonder why a modern car will flatten its battery if its left for one-two weeks? Its computer systems never sleep.

Now, those of us owning 1980's and 1990's technology can sleep replete in the knowledge that our cars generally don't do anything we don't tell them to do. Other than retain their value far better than modern EV/hybrids seem to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUIDiOLxDpE&t=598s

Originally Posted by No.3

Hybrid ute will be good for some roles. Nothing involving farming, water crossings, heavy loading cycles or towing though - the extra weight of a viable-capacity battery pack buggers the average ute for load carrying and towing.

Local Toyota agent saying that from ~ April 2024 they will only be supplying the recently announced mild hybrid HiLux .... no other options.

my work car (200k on the clock) had issues, i had to drive the company hybrid toyota
it did nothing but start/stop ran on gas most of the time, gutless as hell and comfort to match
pita as far as i'm concerned, as for full Ev. not as long as i remain above ground

Just picked up my daughters new second hand wv today. Four door,6speed manual 1400cc turbo petrol engine.Car 10yrs old,1 lady owner.I drove it about a 100ks to get it back here.
Car did 5.2 litrs/100.Why bother with EVs.Car like brand new and only cost 10k.Bargain i thort.

Originally Posted by No.3

Still not seeing anything that's going to reduce the weight of the things substantially enough to make a difference - the limiting factor with the utes is the fact that you hit the limits of Class 1 licence way before the limit of the vehicle, and if you are stacking 3/4 of a ton of hybrid crap into the thing before you start adding paying load to the vehicle. If you aren't loading the vehicle for the purposes of work and it's a glorified car with a big bum there isn't the issues but if you're carting a load for $ the economics of a hybrid ute start looking a little off.

On the other side of it, a hybrid assist on start off with a heavy trailer combined with a regenerative braking setup when on steep downhills stands to make a huge benefit to driveability. A fair bit of experimentation has been done overseas with a electric motor/generator that bolts onto the front of the rear diff and runs on a shortened driveshaft. Bolting a battery pack up under the waste space between the chassis rails and there's a useful advantage in traction and braking, but again the issue is weight and also a smaller effect in performance with the limits on angles the driveshaft can get to.

Or design the gearbox/transfer case to work like an old series Landy, that enabled you to start off in low box till you got up to speed, then double the clutch, into transfer case neutral, select second, then into high box. Possibly a tad too much stick shift gymnastics for the average millennial to master

Originally Posted by Trout

Just picked up my daughters new second hand wv today. Four door,6speed manual 1400cc turbo petrol engine.Car 10yrs old,1 lady owner.I drove it about a 100ks to get it back here.
Car did 5.2 litrs/100.Why bother with EVs.Car like brand new and only cost 10k.Bargain i thort.

...And by this time next year those hybrids are going to be paying RUC's, taking even more gloss off ownership than the $10K ICE of @Trouts example above that appears to be running on t he smell of an oily rag.

Originally Posted by XR500

...And by this time next year those hybrids are going to be paying RUC's, taking even more gloss off ownership than the $10K ICE of @Trouts example above that appears to be running on t he smell of an oily rag.

Not quite.....
Ev= subject to RUCS
PHEV= subject to RUCS
standard ICE/HYBRID = not subject to RUCS

Basically if you have to plug in to charge your battery, you pay RUCS, but it your PHEV then you can claim your fuel excise back, but still pay RUCS.
If your Hybrid can only charge it's batteries via the ICE charging system then you will not be subject to RUCS.

In a nod to 'modern' thinkers, my Camaro is a hybrid, ICE and electric motors (how else can I start my 6.2 litre V8?).

Thanks guys its much as I thought we are a bit out of town so possibly not for us but thought it a discussion worth having.

Originally Posted by dannyb

Not quite.....
Ev= subject to RUCS
PHEV= subject to RUCS
standard ICE/HYBRID = not subject to RUCS

Basically if you have to plug in to charge your battery, you pay RUCS, but it your PHEV then you can claim your fuel excise back, but still pay RUCS.
If your Hybrid can only charge it's batteries via the ICE charging system then you will not be subject to RUCS.

And if you are a cyclist........................you should also be paying RUC's !!!

Every road user should pay RUC's then its genuinely user pays. The more you drive the more you pay. Of course the RUC's should be less as more people paying them AND then fuel should be cheaper as in petrol as RUC would take its place.
Rate should be the same regardless if EV, Hybrid or ICE for easy calculation/collection
Flame retardant suit engaged