Do when they land on it...
Printable View
That they are - in effect EV cars are just electric fork lifts and work platforms with some fancy packaging and a slick marketing campaign. And practically, nearly the same - you wouldn't expect to go to Auckland from Tauranga and back every day on a battery forklift but they are OK driving around the yard or warehouse.
My manual 2021 flat deck double cab diesel Hilux has just done 37020 Kms & is sitting on 8.4 litres per 100 kms for its entire life with an average speed of only 39 kph
I use 4wd when ever on a gravel road which is often
I haven't seen an auto one come even close to that economy for its life & average speed, not surprising given how much the converter slips :XD:,
Mine is happy enough at 54kph in 5 gear, 65 in 6th
I am extremely reluctant to get an auto Hilux
How much more economic would a hybrid one be ?
I guess they would only be a mild hybrid as well ???? time will tell
Rumours are the mild hybrid Hilux will only drop consumption by 1L/100km so less than the difference tyres, bull bars, driving style, unnecessary load, etc make.
Looks like plug in hybrid Ranger due late 2024, early 2025. Sounds pretty good (3.5T towing, 45km EV for toodling around town, still can off road) except for the price (>$85k)
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/132...-plugin-ranger
Earlier version of article said price not released but is expected to be more than Wildtrack but less than Raptor. That comment has since been removed from the article.
Edit: here the version that mentions price https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/132...-to-nz-in-2025
Hi,
I have a 2016 Toyota fielder/Corolla wagon 1.5 hybrid...
In real life driving mixed highway and round town (Wanaka/Queenstown) I average 5 Litres per hundred Kms, I have roof racks, often carry my mountain bike on the back etc etc. Best I've got was 4L per hundred, but that was in flat Christchurch!
I've been super happy with it, gets over the crown range, Ive put 60k on it in two years.
Its Def funny driving a small car around with all the big guzzling utes on the road ! Get a few looks pulling upto road ends and hunting out of it, when most are expecting me to have a 4x4 !
That shows more common sense. I did hear about a trial of one setup that basically flogged the petrol engine and transmission out of a sedan, shagged about to go from east-west to north-south orientation and shoe-horned between the chassis rails of a 2wd ute - apart from a little gutless and somewhat tall gearing it seemed to pass the functional requirements.
Provided they tax the tax of the pump price then I don't have an issue with all vehicles having RUCs.
If they start dicking around with the RUC cost's though and giving special exemptions prices to EVs and penalising the "dangerous" vehicle, then thats a different story.
We have a Toyota prius alpha which is the station wagon prius. It actually has 7 seats although the third row has pretty pathetic leg room. You can fit 7 adults in at a push though. The seats fold down completely flat so is pretty much a normal station wagon boot when folded down. Very happy with it, very reliable. The fact that every uber driver and taxi driver pretty much has one attests to the fact that they are one of the most economical vehicles on the road (combination of reliable, cheap to maintain and low fuel costs) at least if you are doing high ks. Being the station wagon it uses a bit more than the standard prius but can usually get about 4.8l/100 around town and highway driving is much the same. The boot is considerably bigger than the standard prius and more head room for the rear passengers. I think that the year to avoid in terms of prius was 2011 for some reason those engines tend to have problems.
If you are a city dweller like myself the hybrids are good but if you live rural with mostly open road driving I think a hybrid is a waste of time as you aren't doing much stop-starts and the electric motor pretty much doesn't kick in ever over about 60km/hr or so. I think the battery in the prius is about 2-3k to replace, so not too bad and you get a lot of kms out of the battery. Plenty of priuses out there with 400k + on them and still going strong.
The aqua is a good option if you don't need the room except that the Jap import ones have no immobiliser so very easy for teenagers to film themselves stealing it on tik tok. The NZ new version (I believe they are badged Prius C rather than Aqua) have immobilisers I think (push button start) so much much harder to steal. If you get an aqua, always run a steering lock or get an after market immobiliser I would say.
The other vehicle is a diesel Prado 120 series, but with an economy of 13lt/100km + diesel ks it barely gets used unless we have to haul a lot of stuff or need to go offroad. It is really painful to run cost-wise compared to the prius.
I think RUC on every vehicle may be the easiest option for them now. When the free ride ends for electric/hybrid vehicles how else will they manage it ?
diesel/elec plug in = tax on all km's via RUC
pure elec plug in = no tax or RUC
petrol/elec plug in = tax on fuel but free for the electric powered km's
Or more likely they'll dream up some half assed 60/40 or 80/20 split for RUC/fuel tax like they do when they charge us for waste water in our water bill, the hybrids that do most of their driving around town get subsidised by the others that end up using petrol as well.
Even if they do go the "simple" route of RUC for every vehicle by weight I doubt they'll remove the petrol tax or Auck fuel tax.
Same boat here. 2016 fielder hybrid. 5L per 100km. Mostly highway around the NI to avoid putting lots of kms on the 4wd. Get 4L/100 if only in town. Very comfortable to drive, just a bit noisy, but it’s a low spec Toyota so never going to check all the boxes. Very happy with it.
Lots of people saying that the electric motor don’t do any work once on open road but that’s not been my experience, it’s constantly using the electric motor especially up hills.
Yep, goes onto 'dual power' mode and uses both systems with the (or any) excess energy sent back to the battery for recharging. It means that if you live out of town (especially uphill) there doesn't seem to be much benefit of plugging the vehicles into the mains for recharging, as once you head back out onto the open road you are using the onboard generator anyway which is recharging the battery.
In the end eschewed a hybrid due to the extra cost of them and most driving is open road living out of town. Picked up a nice cheap Civic hatch for the wife her pick of everything we looked at and tried and best of all no cambelt.
Will keep my diesel…
Attachment 234130
Knowing ford that range 45km of pure electric power was done down hill
V8 Y62 patrols are slowly getting cheaper second hand.:thumbsup:
Hard to beat a honda as far as gas consumption goes if its running right
If the capital outlay is just a few k,whos cares.
Well, to be fair I thought they were the go to as well and was seriously looking into one when we replaced the wife's car a year and a half or so ago (almost two years...). The neighbour had the same as we were looking at, but what the proven fuel consumption worked out at was actually really unimpressive on the PHEV. We live semi-rural up a fairly big climb from town and straight into 80 and 100Km/H roads. In practice, this meant that the hybrid system only worked in the driveway, and the combined power systems were required on the open road even though the trip to town was downhill. The only practical saving was a short amount of driving off the highway into town, and around a parking area before shutting the vehicle down...
On the way home the reverse was in practice, a short amount (5km or so) on battery followed by highway driving where it was back to combined power. In effect there was no requirement to plug the thing in, as it was arriving home at 80-90% charge or better due to being run on self-charge and dual power mode virtually all the time... Real world consumption figures off that PHEV were 6-6.5L/100Km - the non-hybrid is returning an average of 7-7.5L/100Km in exactly the same (or maybe slightly worse traffic) driving conditions.
The economics of it were that the PHEV version was basically $19,000 more expensive to purchase, and due to the extra weight consumes tyres, suspension and joints at a higher rate. Servicing costs are similar. The extra $19,000 procures a LOT of fuel, even at $3 a litre (circa 85,000Km's of travel equivalent to 6 years for us).
...by which time your ICE has devalued but still does close to the fuel consumption it did when new, but the PHEV now has a rooted battery, the devaluation on the vehicle is enormous, and the P...EV part of the equation is adding no utility to the car running, and you have the equivalent of two fat mates sitting in the back of your car, having to haul them everywhere you drive.
Yep, I did get that but in practice there isn't much difference in usability for us. I test drove a Prius (I know, I know) and a Honda mumble (might have been an Insight? Memory is murky on it. Civic sized sedan anyway) and both of them did the same - as soon as you're over 70-odd k's on open road combined power in use. If you're doing that for 90%+ of the trip you literally aren't saving enough fuel to make the extra consumables and higher purchase cost stack up.
If you are urban and the engine is off for say more than 60% of your trip, that potentially is a saving worth having. But otherwise, as XR500 says the hybrid systems on open road use are generally not saving you anything as the IC engine is turning and burning and anytime that is happening you aren't saving fuel.
A hybrid in the price range we were looking at would be totally rooted already with very high KM's. For what we paid a higher priced hybrid would gain us nothing as thet extra cost is quite a few years driving as this is the second car not the main vehicle.
If comparing Hybrid with ICE, which is better mostly comes down to the type of driving and the amount of driving. At one extreme end of the spectrum a typical drive might be 10km at a constant 100km/h on a straight flat road.
In a hybrid or ICE the same amount of energy will be consumed (essentially resulting in the same petrol consumption) for a hybrid or an ICE. (The hybrid will store a small amount of regen braking at the end of the trip unless you coast to a stop).
Driving around town with lots of stop starts, the hybrid stores some of the braking energy and converts it back to momentum when needed.
While the ICE converts momentum mainly to heat energy to stop, and uses near peak fuel consumption to accelerate from stopped.
So at this stage of technology it depends on what kind of driving one does.
Lots of around town in traffic lights makes a hybrid more relevant. Hence their popularity with taxi drivers.
Mostly long trips on the open road and the savings from recovered energy from braking will likely never outweigh the additional capital outlay.
I think for better and worse that in the next 10-15 years we will see ICE go the same way film cameras started going 20 years ago. Anyone here picked up a roll of negatives lately?.
There will probably be some decent money to be made in producing bolt on converter kits as 2nd hand ICE vehicles get cheaper and cheaper to buy.
It's certifying and tying the hybrid kit onto the vehicle's existing computer setup that makes that an issue. Who covers liability for damage, warranty etc etc?
I'm looking pretty seriously at a lexus ct200h (same running gear 1800cc toyota hybrid as prius, Fielder etc) do a fair whack of 100kph open road travel for work but also do a lot of stop start stuff running the kids around on days off.
The prius is well proven to be reliable I just like the Lexus aesthetics and higher level of interior appointments etc. I know it won't save much if anything on the open road stuff but even just cutting cost of all the running around we do for the kids will be nice.
.......*takes a moment to zip up flame suit :yaeh am not durnk:
U can however buy cells and rebuild/ build your own says a m8 who sells solar and batteries, reckons for about 1/ 20 th the cost
He told me where, pm for details
@No.3 there are ways to get batteries on cheap from au
Cheap to buy - or cheap to ship? The things aren't expensive here on the odd time you can get one in good order from a dismantling outfit (unless you are looking at a select few models where there are aftermarket or they are repackable in NZ) but shipping costs to get them into NZ are virtually cost prohibitive with the DG limits. Even storing them out of the vehicle in a commercial situation can be a headache here.
Getting these batteries delivered around the globe may get more difficult with the frequency that they are catching fire. I see a Tesla Grid tied mega storage battery pack in Queensland went into thermal runaway last night. Fire crews are just letting it burn....
The Toyota Hybrid batteries are a different kettle of flash than EV/PHEV batteries.
For all intents and purposes the Toyota hybrid system is good to go and well proven over many decades. EVs/PHEVs on the other hand are not. While electric motors are hardly a new technology the battery replacement situation is a big problem, even though it really shouldn't be.
You cannot buy a replacement battery for a Nissan leaf in NZ, which considering how many old Japanese import ones are kicking around you'd think there would be.
Re nissan leaf batteries I read in Holland that when they get too old for cars they are beginning to put them in a battery box and with software interface and using them as backup batteries for houses as they are reliable and not prone to fires so at least being used for a longer time .