Old Nissan Safari query

Helping out a young guy with a 1998 Nissan Safari (the short wheel base jobbie).
He has wrecked a front wheel bearing (started making a noise as he drove along).
He has pulled the front hub apart (sort of) to expose a buggered inner wheel bearing.
The inner race is well stuck to the shaft.
Never seen inside one of these before, but it looks like we need to remove the front stub from out of that hub unit at the front (there's a steel ring with 5, maybe 6, bolts holding it on).
I 'think' that needs to be removed to allow that front stub to come out so that we can smack the inner race off.
Any of you done this job before and can give some solid info please?
Thanks.

Attachment 267158

Just slice the inner race in place

Quote:

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Originally Posted by longrange308

Just slice the inner race in place

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With what?
Can't get a disc grinder in there, don't have a gas axe.

Yep you can do that, just start carefully unbolting stuff until you can get access to what you need. I had to do that once to get one of mine off (the race failed on me when I was trying to remove it and spat balls through everything so needed to completely strip it to recover one offending and very shy and retiring part).

It's not a very complicated setup, I can't remember if I had to pull the swivel hub unit and CV or whatever to do that job as it was about 2005 and I did the swivel hub bearings and seals as a separate job so had it all apart anyway.

Consider doing those bearings and seal anyway, as you are 90% of the way there and it removes the possibility of those bits failing shortly afterwards. The swivel bearings come with shims that align the hub on the axle, I got lucky on one side and slapping everything together same as it came out worked but the other side needed to be reshimmed and the ride height reset (probably it had been dicked with in the past and not set up again right, which is why it fell apart on me).

If you wanted to be argumentative with the inner race and didn't want to strip it apart, you could protect the axle and run a short bead of weld around the race and expand it. It will just pull straight off like that. Having said that, if you don't have the gear to heat the inner race and remove it you probably don't want to start welding on the thing!

Shrink it with welding race but I knew what you meant

Yea unbolt the stub axle pretty sumilar set up to a landcruiser from memory

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grey Kiwi

Helping out a young guy with a 1998 Nissan Safari (the short wheel base jobbie).
He has wrecked a front wheel bearing (started making a noise as he drove along).
He has pulled the front hub apart (sort of) to expose a buggered inner wheel bearing.
The inner race is well stuck to the shaft.
Never seen inside one of these before, but it looks like we need to remove the front stub from out of that hub unit at the front (there's a steel ring with 5, maybe 6, bolts holding it on).
I 'think' that needs to be removed to allow that front stub to come out so that we can smack the inner race off.
Any of you done this job before and can give some solid info please?
Thanks.

Attachment 267158

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Yeah what blip said
Undo the 6 bolts and it'll come off, if it's been stuck on for years might need a little tap.
If the gaskets fucked don't forget to get some sealant on it before slapping it back together.

I've often had to use a small cold chisel with a fine tip to crack the stub axle away from the flange, just enough to get it started. There's another bearing inside the back of the stub axle as well.

Thanks guys.
I've found a man with a bearing puller set and he is going to pull that inner bearing race off the shaft.
I've let the young guy know of the advice from you so he knows what he may be getting into if he keeps on removing parts!

Well, that escalated quickly.
The inboard bearings inner race had heat welded itself to that stub axle housing.
With a good weld bead run around the race to heat it and a lot of pressure from an hydraulic press the race was finally removed.
But no use...the stub axle is badly damaged. The oil seal area has also been ground down from the hub sitting down on it (yes...the owner had heard strange noises before and had tried to just shove in some grease without actually taking the hub apart. No such thing as a quick fix!).
It's not pretty, and probably has damaged the hub too.
So...some parts needed.
Anyone wrecking one of these, or know of a likely source of parts (1998 Nissan Safari)?
Thanks.
Attachment 267333

Partsouq.

Yuk... Yep that's the issue with these things, so damn tough you can get away with murdering them literally!

My missus (who was a fairly new girlfriend at that time) borrowed mine to nip over the kaimais to te aroha and visit her bro. Fresh WOF, all good I thought. Turns back into the street my house was on and the front left wheel went straight. Left a bloody great groove down the road driving on the front left brake disc... New disc, wheel studs, swapped the spare onto the front left and a wrecker brake shield and good as new haha. If I recall, that was the catalyst for me doing the tractor hub swivel bearings...

You used to be able to get kits with all the seals bearings gaskets and stub axle

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blip

You used to be able to get kits with all the seals bearings gaskets and stub axle

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Yep, and it's now being sorted.
The young man has bought 2 of those kits from Aussie.
I don't know the price, but he is happy to get the bits.

Don kyatt used to do them in auck

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grey Kiwi

Well, that escalated quickly.
The inboard bearings inner race had heat welded itself to that stub axle housing.
With a good weld bead run around the race to heat it and a lot of pressure from an hydraulic press the race was finally removed.
But no use...the stub axle is badly damaged. The oil seal area has also been ground down from the hub sitting down on it (yes...the owner had heard strange noises before and had tried to just shove in some grease without actually taking the hub apart. No such thing as a quick fix!).
It's not pretty, and probably has damaged the hub too.
So...some parts needed.
Anyone wrecking one of these, or know of a likely source of parts (1998 Nissan Safari)?
Thanks.
Attachment 267333

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I slightly worn my sub axel 600ks(front left)Y62.Garage glued the new bearing inner on axel with some sort of engineering glue.Been on a year,no problem yet.New sub axel from Auckalnd Nissen ($1350),that was a year ago.

Probably a green loctite retaining compound or equivalent? Bit of a harsh way to go but if it works... On the other hand at $1350 a piece bloody near worth weld repairing and machining back down!

Probably bearing retainer. Wurth makes it.

Used it in trailer hubs before

Just check front wheeling bearings for movement last week.Front left needed a little swigg up,3mm of movenment +or -.First time since glue job 12 months ago,15k.Pretty good I thort.

Iv been watching the oil since last oil change.Used 1/2litre of oil in 10000ks.Happy its only used that amount too for a 610k engine.

Keep an eye on your bearings. If the stub axle is worn youll be taking the play out by preloading the bearings a bit too much but it will work.

Bit late, hope you got it sorted.
I've replaced one as well un my GU wagon.

couple of variations & they do sell them here in NZ.
https://www.4wdbits.co.nz/ProductDet...productID=6631

https://www.4wdbits.co.nz/ProductDet...productID=6630

Yep - side track option but if you don't mind getting out and engaging your hubs the manual spindle at $233+ will do the job if you also swap out the auto hubs. Most 4wd types do this as the standard Nissan auto hubs are bastards of things as if you go into reverse for a short section (rocking the vehicle) the auto hubs tend to unlock and if you can't rotate forwards enough to get them to re-lock in the forwards direction you can bury the rear end or end up parked and need a recovery or a winch. Or, if you're particularly lucky you can use the special locking slim wrench doohickey and manually lock them back up (if you can get to the center of your wheel!).

The other failure mode for the auto hubs is they try and engage when you are going forwards at 50Km/H which can get interesting. It's a hell of a bang at the very least. I had a set of auto hubs here for a long time after I replaced mine with manual type hubs, almost ripped the guts clean out of the right side one doing this. A guy heard me whining about them locking up like that, and made me an offer so he could replace one of his that did the same. Couldn't refuse, to be fair - I would have just fitted manuals but each to their own.

Got rid of auto hubs yrs ago,real bitch of things if you think they are working when crossing a river.You start get bogged down,no 4x4.THanks God for rear diff lock.

Still got auto hubs on the 'good' GU. I have been told its not to go off road, so they will do for the mean time.;)

The old GU has AVM's I fitted 8 years ago. Have been faultless till a couple of weeks ago down on the south Island climbing out of Omarama on steep shale and I swear I heard them jump a spline every now and then. Bugger. will have to take off and inspect before the next trip south in 5 weeks time.

Its good to see you can buy reasonable cost stub axles.

My Kubota tractor has one front wheel bearing held in place with that black Wurth goo. That and a million centre punch dots:omg: Bloody brilliant stuff. Was able to check its concentricty with a dti before the wurth goo went hard, so that was great peace of mind for something that will not want to come apart easily

As mentioned the fully auto hubs are absolute shyte, the other type which are manual/auto are the best in all seriousness.

The auto side is pretty adequate for general stuff, fundraiser, light river or club grade 2 use. For serious grade 5 shyte then just use your wheel brace or tyre iron to switch the hub from auto to manual....they rarely fail or let you down.
I've got genuine Patrol manual hubs on my Safari, I love em...but I've got a couple pairs of mint factory auto/manual hubs tucked away.

The only time I EVER had trouble with the above hubs was winter to summer, during summer i'd run factory recommended fluid in the transfer case, during winter when that oil was thicker due to the cold temperatures here in the South Is...when I left for work in the morning and the fluid being thicker - the auto hubs tended to engage, this only occurred until things warmed up. So to prevent that I'd run auto transmission fluid in the transfer case. It worked perfectly and incase anyone thinks it a bit weird then Google it or look on the Patrol4x4 aussie forum.

Auto trans fluid in transfer case been working fine for me in the last 19yrs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Twodiffs

As mentioned the fully auto hubs are absolute shyte, the other type which are manual/auto are the best in all seriousness.

The auto side is pretty adequate for general stuff, fundraiser, light river or club grade 2 use. For serious grade 5 shyte then just use your wheel brace or tyre iron to switch the hub from auto to manual....they rarely fail or let you down.
I've got genuine Patrol manual hubs on my Safari, I love em...but I've got a couple pairs of mint factory auto/manual hubs tucked away.

The only time I EVER had trouble with the above hubs was winter to summer, during summer i'd run factory recommended fluid in the transfer case, during winter when that oil was thicker due to the cold temperatures here in the South Is...when I left for work in the morning and the fluid being thicker - the auto hubs tended to engage, this only occurred until things warmed up. So to prevent that I'd run auto transmission fluid in the transfer case. It worked perfectly and incase anyone thinks it a bit weird then Google it or look on the Patrol4x4 aussie forum.

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Good to know. Mine is the factory auto/manual variety that takes the wheel brace to change from one setting to the other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XR500

Good to know. Mine is the factory auto/manual variety that takes the wheel brace to change from one setting to the other.

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They are OK, although this was the type that did the 50Km/H 'self-engage' on me driving around town... I replaced with fully manual and no more problems with the bloody things trying to engage at 50Km/H while in 2wd mode. The cheaper auto type (like what you normally get on the early xtrails and the like) are not recommended, but the auto with what they call the emergency manual override option are also not entirely bullet proof.

To be fair, when I was doing a lot of 4wd work I just used to leave them engaged and let the front diff sort it out. Didn't notice any issue with either steering handling or fuel economy from it, and usually when I was working the rest of the crew parked on your arse so you couldn't reverse to unlock the auto hubs anyway so no real change there.

I used to just run the same LSD diff oil in front and rear, as it meant 1 bottle rather than two using half in each end. I think I was able to get a 6L which just did it if I recall, never had any issues with the hubs as I was running manuals anyway. I expect that the issue is due to the axles 'dragging' on the oil viscosity, but no real issue I can see unless you get a handling issue from it???

Update is...all fixed.
New parts both sides (to make a 'proper' job of it).
Safari is back on the road, and with new WOF.
Young bloke did all the mechanical, and leg work (finding bits) too.

The problem with auto hubs is that the time you discover they don't work is the time you really do want them to work.
My old Prado decided the hubs were too old down a bank next to the Piako one afternoon...... what a rodeo it was getting out of there.

Yup... In actuality I was probably lucky mine dig the dog return spring fail and locked up while driving down the road in 2wd. At least you get a fright and find out without having to do a massive recovery as well!

My fuel economy improved by 1L/100km in my old SWB when I swapped the auto hubs for manuals..

At least one had obviously been full time rather than auto.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StrikerNZ

My fuel economy improved by 1L/100km in my old SWB when I swapped the auto hubs for manuals..

At least one had obviously been full time rather than auto.

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Yeah I didn't seem to have that issue, but I suspect the hubs were trying to engage at speed rather than being locked on all the time. If the hub is locked all the time like that, it's possible that the diff and front driveshaft are dragging and spinning one half shaft just enough to make the hub think that it's being driven and activating the hub locking mechanism. The other possibility is that the hub is simply not unlocking after being in 4wd as well. The third and probably the most common fault (apart from the one I had where the hubs try to lock at speed) is the hubs just stop locking full stop...

One thing to check with them is that the half shaft end float is still contained. If the hub starts playing up, it can dislodge the half shaft retaining circlip that stops the half shaft sliding back into the diff, and that can cause engagement issues and wear on the end of the shaft and the inside splines of the hub.