Oversteer

Hi all. My ute has developed a problem of bad oversteer, predominantly in the wet but its starting to get noticeable in the dry, plus losing traction when I start moving. I first thought it might be the M/T tyres on steel rims I have but this problem started becoming noticeable with a set of A/T tyres on alloy rims I used to run on. I have heard a faulty diff can cause this issue but I don't know how to find out, what tests to do to confirm its the diff, or tyres. Has anyone else had this issue, all advice will be appreciated.

check your shocks....the loosing traction when start moving is dead giveaway for this....

Diff lock on? My ford has a button in front of the gear lever that got pushed by my card holder.

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Originally Posted by 2post

Diff lock on? My ford has a button in front of the gear lever that got pushed by my card holder.

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No diff lock, RWD only. I'm wondering if the diff is locking itself from wear?

Worn Nitrous switches or bad earth to one of the Vertex magnetos ?

Occasionally you can get a 3-400 hp surge from unburnt fuel lighting off when a mag comes back online and there’s O2 there to burn it

Are you injecting base of the hat or fogging post blower, an intermittent electrical signal there can see power surges causing the same traction and steering symptoms you describe

start with a wheel alignment maybe?

To be honest it could still be the tyres.
When we first got 4wd Hiluxs at work in aussie in 2010 the biggest issue was the factory tyres were junk. Not very grippy at all. Just after I got it I tried coming in a bit hot to an intersection like I would do in my holden crewman to beat a light then thought better of it.
I slid a car length through the intersection and very lucky it had barely gone red and no one coming. This is on the new tyres under 2000ks
Absolutely shithouse on roundabouts if you spat on the road.
Everyone grizzled to OHS department and we got a change.
They sourced replacements to suit the mags and load rating
Very high silica rating for the grip.
Every hilux we got we sent to our tyre fitter and he took them off gave us about 200 a corner for them and fitted the new ones
Fast forward 45000ks and same thing. They went off.
Still had at least half the tread (got close to 90000ks out of the crewman with 2 buggered tyres and 2 almost, and I thrashed that hard), had to get another set fitted.
You could tell, it just started getting squirrely in the wet on roundabouts and withing a couple of weeks they were junk again

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Originally Posted by Three O'Three

No diff lock, RWD only. I'm wondering if the diff is locking itself from wear?

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Ok then look for wear in the rear spring bushes or sway bar rubbers.
What make of Ute is it and how old?

Does it do it worse turning one way over the other?

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Originally Posted by 2post

Ok then look for wear in the rear spring bushes or sway bar rubbers.
What make of Ute is it and how old?

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2002 rodeo

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Originally Posted by dvk-kp

Does it do it worse turning one way over the other?

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Mainly when turning right, wheel alignment has be done but made no difference

Right hand axle not driving the thing? If it is not an alignment or steering issue on the front axle, it must be either a mechanical issue (diff, broken axle), suspension (shocks, bushes, sway bar), or grip either tyres or the road surface. Probably the tyres...

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

Worn Nitrous switches or bad earth to one of the Vertex magnetos ?

Occasionally you can get a 3-400 hp surge from unburnt fuel lighting off when a mag comes back online and there’s O2 there to burn it

Are you injecting base of the hat or fogging post blower, an intermittent electrical signal there can see power surges causing the same traction and steering symptoms you describe

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Farkin Gold!

Leaf springs at rear? Maybe a broken leaf or two. Centre bolt that holds the spring together can break too.
Could be shocks. Remove them and check for proper operation. Don't just crawl under the back and say 'They look OK'.
Shocks have a 'life time' and are probably the originals (?) Recommended to replace at 50,000 miles (80,000 km).
If you put power on through a corner does it make the problem better/worse?
I'd start with shocks, then proper check of rear springs, and check that the diff isn't loose in it's mountings (broken/loose 'U' bolts, etc).
Tyres OK (no lumps hanging out the sides), proper air pressure in them? Same size tyres each side?

Have a look at the leaf spring bushes, make sure it’s all parallel and central etc.

A lot of “wheel alignments” on stuff like that is just to set the toe on the front cos that’s the only adjustment. Nothing in the back should move.

My hilux had a seized handbrake pivot on one side so that side was dragging and would do a similar thing, something else worth checking.

Spring bushes as well, if the entire diff can move on one side it can cause a power on steering effect.

any progress????

2 WD Utes are noted for loose back ends, especially when empty. All the weight is at the front and it is driven through the back wheels. Various manufacturers have different fixes for this but over time these become degraded due to wear. Your ute is 20 years old, perhaps this is the problem.
GPM.

Update: Checked wheel bearings and diff, all seems fine. But lately only at 60kph I can feel a knocking like I have a tire bulge but theres no bulge. Now after 60kph I sometimes hear a loud rumbling but can go away if I stop a vehicle than start driving again.

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Originally Posted by Three O'Three

Update: Checked wheel bearings and diff, all seems fine. But lately only at 60kph I can feel a knocking like I have a tire bulge but theres no bulge. Now after 60kph I sometimes hear a loud rumbling but can go away if I stop a vehicle than start driving again.

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Dont like that rumbling sound, probably not this but please check the tailshaft universals and wheel nuts. Neither will affect oversteer but can be more serious

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Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

Dont like that rumbling sound, probably not this but please check the tailshaft universals and wheel nuts. Neither will affect oversteer but can be more serious

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@Moa Hunter. "tailshaft universal" is that the same as U-joints?

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Originally Posted by Three O'Three

@Moa Hunter. "tailshaft universal" is that the same as U-joints?

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No. tailshaft means the driveshaft from the back of the gearbox, the splined slipjoints and the universals which are the + shaped crosses between the yokes of the driveshaft joints. Even the flange bolts on the diff and gearbox output shaft should be checked. If you had a wheel off, were the wheel nuts tightened in a headstud pattern, so they all end up being tightened down the same. Let the handbrake off and check all the drivetrain for play. Vibration and rumbles can turn out real bad but its only 5 mins to check

Seized/jamming clutch pack next to the spider gear in the diff

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Originally Posted by Moa Hunter

No. tailshaft means the driveshaft from the back of the gearbox, the splined slipjoints and the universals which are the + shaped crosses between the yokes of the driveshaft joints. Even the flange bolts on the diff and gearbox output shaft should be checked. If you had a wheel off, were the wheel nuts tightened in a headstud pattern, so they all end up being tightened down the same. Let the handbrake off and check all the drivetrain for play. Vibration and rumbles can turn out real bad but its only 5 mins to check

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I noticed when turning either rear wheel or the driveshaft there seems to be quite a lot of play before the other two start to turn as well. Also how much play should there be in a driveshaft hanger bearing bush?

Might even be a broken spider gear

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Originally Posted by 7mmsaum

Might even be a broken spider gear

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Dropping the oil would soon let you no if there's diff issues in my vast experience with diffs [emoji1787]

Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by BRADS

Dropping the oil would soon let you no if there's diff issues in my vast experience with diffs [emoji1787]

Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk

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@BRADS. Diff is weeping a bit from driveshaft and left wheel ends

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Originally Posted by Three O'Three

@BRADS. Diff is weeping a bit from driveshaft and left wheel

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Could be the sparkles eating the seals away trying to get out :)

A bit of play in the diff isnt necessarily an issue. Ive seen some that manage at least a half turn of one wheel before all the slack gets taken up and the other starts moving - check that it moves freely and try to have someone else turn the wheel wile you get close to the diff to listen for noise.

You mention a hanger bearing bush - recommend you take the driveshaft off if you can and check the bearing and all the U-Js. the section of driveshaft between the gearbox and the hanger bearing doesnt get much variation in angle, and a UJ running in a nearly straight line all the time can wear funny. Common problem on cars with independent rear suspension - youd think they would never wear out but running in a straight line is worse than at a modest angle. Could be causing your rumble / vibration at a specific speed. Check all the bolts and any rubber bushings too. Also a slightly worn wheel bearing can do the same.

Re oversteer - roll-oversteer could be making an appearance as your suspension wears - its when body roll causes a leaf sprung diff to cant left or right while going around a corner. Shocks and anti-roll bars may be loosing their effectiveness, coupled with tires + whatever else could add up to your situation.

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Originally Posted by Three O'Three

I noticed when turning either rear wheel or the driveshaft there seems to be quite a lot of play before the other two start to turn as well. Also how much play should there be in a driveshaft hanger bearing bush?

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My big concern with my earlier post was for your safety if a universal let go, always worth a check if there is vibration.
Regarding the Idler bearing on the driveshaft, there shouldnt be any slop in the rubber bush, just a tiny amount and non in the bearing in its centre these are greaseable but the rubber bush does pack up. If worn it can cause vibration, but more likely vibration from the diff is damaging the idler.
Hopefully a mechanic will come on here and give better advice than mine

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Originally Posted by Three O'Three

Update: Checked wheel bearings and diff, all seems fine. But lately only at 60kph I can feel a knocking like I have a tire bulge but theres no bulge. Now after 60kph I sometimes hear a loud rumbling but can go away if I stop a vehicle than start driving again.

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stop running over road cones.....

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Originally Posted by blip

stop running over road cones.....

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Well, if there wasn't so many roadworks that wouldn't be a problem

Have you jacked up rear wheels off ground and checked operation of diff/drivetrain? If diff is locked, both axles will drive in same direction at same time, this usually leads to understeer though and outer wheel trying to spin up in turn. If only one axle driving steering will be better one way more than the other. You haven’t altered suspension ride height recently without resetting wheel alignment have you? Raising front suspension will create more toe-in thus oversteer. Raising only rear end can effectively do the same. Rumbling noise is generally a bearing failure not usually necessarily related to steering. Any decent mechanic should be able to diagnose problem, that’s what old school mechanics were trained in, at least they used to be.

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Originally Posted by woods223

Have you jacked up rear wheels off ground and checked operation of diff/drivetrain? If diff is locked, both axles will drive in same direction at same time, this usually leads to understeer though and outer wheel trying to spin up in turn. If only one axle driving steering will be better one way more than the other. You haven’t altered suspension ride height recently without resetting wheel alignment have you? Raising front suspension will create more toe-in thus oversteer. Raising only rear end can effectively do the same. Rumbling noise is generally a bearing failure not usually necessarily related to steering. Any decent mechanic should be able to diagnose problem, that’s what old school mechanics were trained in, at least they used to be.

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Yes I have jacked up the rear end, both wheels do spin in same direction, its a LSD diff. Oversteer is the problem, not understeer. Haven't adjusted height of ute.

was the alighnment out when you had it done.

Attachment 229155

If it's an LSD and it's buggered it might be running as an open diff, will definitely break traction easier.

As @BRADS said, drop the oil, it should be clean and golden.