Fell upon this news article. Will equiv of this happen in NZ?
https://www.autoblog.com/2024/02/20/...ation%20charge.
Then today on Stuff. Are these 70 series lower than they used to be?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350...s-ultimate-ute
Fell upon this news article. Will equiv of this happen in NZ?
https://www.autoblog.com/2024/02/20/...ation%20charge.
Then today on Stuff. Are these 70 series lower than they used to be?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350...s-ultimate-ute
It's one of the reasons our supplies of anything with the 2.8 engine have gone backwards so I'm told, the Aussies are trying to push customers who have paid a deposit for the V8 cruiser onto either a hilux or the 2.8 version as they just can't confirm what Toyota will be sending them. They've pushed orders back in Aus and still can't confirm delivery dates, and are trying to get as many 2.8 versions as they can (same as everyone else). Fun times...
2.8 isn't a terrible engine, but the main issue with it is the same as everything else with a tiny donkey - just not as polished with heavy towing and heavy loads. That's why people are waiting and hoping for the v8's...
I read somewhere that, OZ has over 2000 orders for V8 pending or maybe just another publicity stunt
Wouldn't surprise me, considering the industry use of them over there.
Are the prices lower than last year in nz? No, the LT single cabs that were delivered in May/June of 2023, were ordered on the 2022 pricing. Which was ?$73,490 with $5175 Ute tax on top. So still less than the current price.Quote:
Originally Posted by uk_exile
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Lots of good reviews on the 2.8.
But I guarantee that when the v8 is eventually phased out they will continue to go up in value. Can't beat the sound of a v8 turbo diesel!
I struggle with the power & torque output comparisons, V8 Manual vs I4 Auto
Engine 4.5 Litre Turbo
Cylinders & Arrangement V8, 32 Valve Quad Cam
Maximum Power 151kW at 3400rpm
Maximum Torque 430Nm at 1200-3200rpm
Engine 2.8 Litre Turbo
Cylinders & Arrangement 4 Cylinder, 16 Valve Double Overhead Cam
Maximum Power 150kW at 3000-3400rpm
Maximum Torque 500Nm at 1600-2800rpm
The Manual Hilux isn't far behind the V8 70 Series ?
Maximum Power 150kW at 3400rpm
Maximum Torque 420Nm at 1400-3400rpm
Auto GR Hilux 2.8 has way more grunt
Maximum Power 165kW at 3000rpm
Maximum Torque 550Nm at 1600-2800rpm
I guess one engine will do 500000 Kms + and the other not so much ????
a 2.8 in a land cruiser they could have just called it something like land cruiser junior or mini cruiser or land cruiser quazi just does not seem right at all
Funny you should say that, Google the land cruiser 250 series. Jimny sized.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry the hunter
Throw up a pic of your one. It's mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by MSL
250 series is the new prado, so hardly jimmy size, call it useful size.
True, they must have changed their minds on it. I see all the jimny references are now 2023 news
There are already huge numbers of very high mileage 1GD-FTVs around the world in all sorts of commercial applications. It’s already 10 years old. The engine is used in Hiace, Hino & Dyna trucks, Coaster buses, others that I can’t remember, as well as what we’re used to with Hilux, Fortuner, Prado. The commercial constant use examples rack up crazy km in a year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg
The 1VD single turbo V8 in the Cruiser utes was detuned so much its lazy to the point of being a waste! The twin turbo used in the 200 was a better spec for the displacement, weight and efficiency. Dozens of factory tune examples on YT demonstrating what can be done with the V8 if for some reason its too lazy for you. A lot of over-powered examples with shorter life expectancy… (The 4WD-24x7 guys keep demonstrating how to shorten the life of your Toyota / Nissan - they’ve already fucked two new engine builds in “Sooty” in a year or so…. And that’s with the IL 6cyl! All in the name of chasing more torques.)
The performance of the new Land Cruiser I4 2.8 has been thoroughly tested and the outcomes speak for themselves. The only downside is the higher auto-box first gear in low range, meaning that downhill assist control is required where before no braking at all (optimal) was the preferred option. That’s when the going is very tough, hardly a common occurrence. Overall the spec of the vehicle is an improvement on the V8s by a decent margin, fuel economy being a big deal these days.
I firmly believe that all the hullabaloo about the demise of the V8 will die out and in 5 years it’ll be nowt but a distant memory.
Wouldn't surprise me at all especially when you compare the performance figures....Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyblown
Very detuned stock engine in the cruiser, also very easy to get a lot of power from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg
We tow some heavy gear all around with ours, 3.5 tons plus it's pumping 600nm and there not much that slows it down.
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ahhhh but the deep satisfying rumble of a 4.5 V8 as opposed to the tortured whine of a 2.8 having its guts pulled out no comparison
I think the issue with the figures is it's comparing an elephant with a greyhound. Put the elephant on a diet and a training regime and with the appropriate care it'll do some serious work reliably with torque to spare day in day out. The smaller engine can do it on the odd occasion but if you try it routinely 100% of the time, like a loaded up greyhound it will end up needing to be retired and converted to a rescue dog or taken out the back and shot.
A good comparison. Feeding the elephant is getting expensive. Which one will be more economic over it's lifetime?
Yes...
I think if you remove the designed in restrictions on the bigger engine and free it up for long term efficiency rather than going for absolute power, it will be the better option for reliability and economy. My mate's experience with that generation 2.8 engine in a ute was after less than 100,000 of hard towing and heavy loads for work the thing was completely worn out. in another 20,000 it was returning 56L/100Km and running like a dog. Toyota claimed the mate was getting servicing done at an unapproved agency so refused any claim - despite the only work being done by the dealer and the service book completed as per. Washed their hands... The vehicle is one thing, the company's backup didn't win friends and none of us that were in the circle at that time have stepped foot in a toyota dealership since. Having said that, theres a few ford service teams that won't be getting any business either.
Yeah our fuel consumption dropped significantly after a tuneQuote:
Originally Posted by No.3
I'll be interested to compare the efficiency of the cruiser and hilux tonight I doubt there's much in it.
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I’m very happy with mine compared to my 2014 hilux. Way more efficient when towing and or deck loaded.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADS
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Yeah, we've got a 2018 cruiser and a 2018 hilux, the hilux went to dannevirke and back today at 9.7L/100km the cruiser came back from taupo yesterday towing the boat and it says 13.9L/100km so I suspect the hilux would use a lot more doing the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by MSL
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...c5d5330a06.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Proudkiwi
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Looks a bit like a Mahindra!
Spent the month of March down on the SI west coast with the boat in tow. Kept an eye on all fill ups and kms done. The Patrol's big ol lazy 4.2 TD with 530,000km on the clock returned 10.9L/100km over 3500 km.
Won't win any drag races, but there's something to be said for big and lazy and turboed.
Nah, the roof line is only 1 story not 3 stories... Next time you see a mahindra look for it and you'll not be able to unsee it haha. "Turban tall..."Quote:
Originally Posted by vulcannz
Almost identical, hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by vulcannz
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some one needs an eye test followed by a dettol gargle Mahindra the cheek
Not necessarily. 13-14L/100km is about par for the I4 1GD-FTV towing something like a decent sized boat or camper trailer. There's heaps of tests on YT with that engine in Hilux and Prado, lots of guys in Aus. The Hilux I drive regularly towing a 5m tandem trailer with a CamAm Defender, full dip tank, pump, hoses, dead sheep etc shows around 13-14L/100km on rough, steep hill country unsealed roads, going relatively slowly (prob 70km/h max) with 4WD engaged.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRADS
It's towing caravans into a head wind that the 1GD-FTV will struggle with. The long distance tests in Aus have it on a par with the V8 single turbo ute, but it ain't pretty for either of them.
What has been demonstrated again and again is the effect of accessories on fuel consumption - roof racks & roof mounted gear, bull bars, bigger tyres than stock, all the rest of the fruit. There's a significant consumption penalty to be paid if you run all the fruit as I do, out of necessity.
Yep, the same with big boats. Parachutes basically, and any 4cyl engine is ugly in this application. Basically in marine engine terms you are operating the engine at 100% duty cycle, geared down and near full throttle just to overcome the wind resistance of the thing behind ya. The other problem with boats in the loading of a boat on a trailer is fairly ugly and often is marginal for weight distribution especially with big outboard or inboard engines. Where it shows worst is starting of having to turn, like on a T intersection onto a main road where you need to roll with a lot of power to get moving. Often it's a balancing act with enough power to get moving vs spinning up at the rear and not actually going anywhere. It's something that the 6cyl Landcrabs and Patrols, and the V8 Landcruiser do better with as there are more power strokes per rotation of the crankshaft which minimises the load/unload cyclic forces on the crankshaft. The 5cyl Ranger is one of the better options in terms of cost vs availability vs reliability but from my experience is still a little marginal in this application.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyblown
Tested in the video below… there are several of these tests out there already (e.g. Ronnie Dahl) and they are all concluding the same, which is that the 4-cyl auto is not struggling at all compared to the V8 as most punters assume it would. In pretty much all the tests that I have watched so far, the 4-cyl has “won”. Having done a decent amount of hard yakka km in the 2.8 4-cyl, and many years working with the V8 here and in Aus, I kinda knew that would be the case. I simply have not experienced a performance deficit in the 4-cyl.
Bottom line is that there’s a lot of assumptions being made by fans of older, bigger engines, but the tech advances look like they have won the day and the small engine has superior metrics. I don’t buy the argument that the smaller engine will wear excessively. Toyota aren’t that dumb! Anyway, we will have forgotten all about this debate in a few years time because the V8 is on a 1-way ticket to retirement and before you know it to 2.8 will be the new normal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRns...ezaiFpUhwf0_p5
Agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyblown
To put our 10.9L/100km fuel consumption into perspective, the Patrol is completely cleanskin with standard highway tyres on. The boat and trailer combined weigh 500kg, and all the camping gear fitted in the boat, so we could rid ourselves of the roof rack. The boat itself wears a cover, making it a reasonably slippery towed item.
Still not bad for a 27 year old truck with an unopened engine and drivetrain.
yeah yeah but the driving experience all well and good listening to the asthmatic 2.8 but ya actually internally sobbing wishing it was a V8 rumble thats gotta be worth somethingQuote:
Originally Posted by Flyblown
Having seen one early example of the current 4cyl Toyota completely worn out and ready to be junked in less than 100,000Km's towing a variety of large work boats I tend to disagree.
Towing big heavy parachutes is the hardest work you can do to a light vehicle from what I've experienced - the bigger engines doing less work for the same power so survive better. You can get the book specs out of the engine and they look OK on a wall chart, and for most people they don't operate in the top 25% of the engine's output very much let alone continuously. You can substitute tech for capacity for a while, but not continuously.
All brands have a very small percentage of mechanical failures, that become inflated stories on the internet, especially on forums. We can never see what really happened, we only hear what "my mate" said. So without any evidence, I don't really believe this story as is I'm afraid. Something else would have happened, guaranteed.Quote:
Originally Posted by No.3
With today's modern engines, pretty much all serious mechanical failures from bikes to utes to heavy plant and equipment, there's always been a significant contributing factor. A servicing mistake covered up, intentional misuse causing damage, persistent use outside of specified operating parameters. Whatever it is, it's usually conveniently removed from the re-telling, if it was even known in the first place.
Only time will tell,
Im not a fan 4cl 70s must as well get a hilux or Ineos
Hopefully, by that time, Ineos manage to pull their sh#t together and make a proper cabin chassis.
You mean V8 cabin (wind) noise :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry the hunter
Nope. No bullshit, brought from new, no mods, dealer serviced, one clutch replaced under warranty and dealer/supplier walked away at about 120km's with the thing unuseable stating the vehicle had been serviced at a non-dealer mechanic which it hadn't (parked up in the sticks at a local supplier when it shit itself finally). Easiest solution for the owner was trade it for a different brand replacement and take the hit, just not worth the fight. Would like to say I've never seen anything like it it terms of the dealer performance but I have from two other brands so no love lost for any of them. They are all interested in just the money, not interested in people who are actually using the vehicles in day in, day out hard heavy work. It was sold with the work it was going to do stated up front, they reckoned it was perfectly suited when it wasn't. Having said that, I've seen two other 2.2 and 2L twin-turbo diesels die real young when asked to tow the full 3500Kg with a BIG parachute on the back, so it's not a particular criticism of the Toyota 2.8 engine - it's just that the smaller 4cyl engines relying on a massive amount of tech and forced induction to get the Kw and Nm figures do it at the expense of service lifespan. There just isn't any way around it or a way to beat the physics or mechanics of it - there is no replacement for displacement. (And that's the capital full stop).Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyblown
I'll add an edit, I'd like to say I knew what happened to the ute after it was traded but I don't have hard facts on it - I did hear that it got a replacement out of a rollover and then sold on the lot, but I can't be sure on it. I would have loved to be there when the failed unit was pulled down - I'd have expected it to be completely choked in the intake manifold and flogged out in the bores. Smoking like it was and returning 56L/100Km off the onboard computer tells a story. And it did have a mod, an aftermarket winch bar...
Who’s worried about fuel consumption on a V8 Landcruiser??
I’ve just chucked on 4 new tyres and a service, fuel economy doesn’t even come into it.
I’d sooner have a 4.5ltr V8 diesel than a 2.8ltr stressed, no substitute for cubic inches.
Anyone interested in a Q7 4.2 ltr V8 diesel, one lady driver, 76km, 2012, goes like a cut cat, $27k
Mint condition. The cooks down sizing. Basically been a Remuera tractor, supermarket, gym, Newmarket to home.
There are thousands upon thousands of very hard working 1GDs out there that make your one lonely example look very much something else happened than just “couldn’t tow”!Quote:
Originally Posted by No.3
Technology moves relentlessly forward, and big engines are yesterday’s tech.
Try telling that to petrol heads that love V8’s and most of the Taupo population this weekend. :D