Toyota or nissan V6

Sooner or later I will be getting rid of the 94 pajero diesel
Had it for 6 years but it is just a bit tired really.
Considering the price of Diesel now being so close to petrol I am thinking about petrol.
Ruling out the mitsi pajeros etc, just too many niggles especially the GDI and quite scoffy.
That brings it into Toyota prado/hilux or nissan Pathfinder/navara.
Mid to late 2000 models with the 4 litre engines.
Havent really thought about the isuzu/holden models around that time but have a sneaky feeling there wasnt that many and they were only 3.5 litre.
Goods, bads, prices etc?
I will add that I dont own a trailer and I tow bugger all
Borrow the bro in laws trailer to take rubbish etc to the dump a couple of times a year.
I'm saying that because I'm well aware petrol economy goes through the floor if you start towing etc
It's not really a consideration for me
I suppose if I bit the bullet on a ute then I wouldnt even need his trailer, but I still help out sometimes with one
Cheers

Don’t forget, the 25 cent petrol tax reduction will finish shortly


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Don't touch a modern Nissan with a bargepole

nissan will have the evil jatco cvt from hell, the toyota one is more reliable but cvt is pure crap to drive

If you're not towing, why not consider a Highlander? You'll get one 8-10yrs newer for the same money... I've got a 2014 top spec highlander. Absolutely love it and if money allows, will have the equivalent model until they stop making them - and then I'll probably buy the driverless flying version.

Toyota highlander
Absolute winner.
More economical than my diesel hilux plus more comfort and more grunt.
All wheel drive but limited more by the tyres than the all wheel drive

I'm interested in this as well, I'm just not sure where diesel is going, there was talk at work today of removing road tax and adopting an English like colour system.
Will diesel climb higher
Older vehicles may have gone for may hundreds of thousands of Km but I doubt mine will do anywhere near that and service costs are ridiculous
I had a 4 yr service a month ago , not much change out of nearly 800$. Can't wait till I hit my 50 or 60thou Km one , Not.
starting to suck really.
A reliable decently strong petrol engine seems more and more attractive.

I seriously looked at the 1GR 4 litre Toyotas but stuck with a diesel for towing and river crossings etc. Weekend vehicle so not too fussed on fuel costs. One issue I found (admittedly from reading the net and a couple of vehicles I looked at) with the Toyota motors are oil feed problems resulting in motors needing rebuilt. A fair bit of it I think is due to short runs causing sludging. Check under the oil filler caps and down the fill tubes. Will give an idea of what the inside is like. Both Prados in town I looked at were bloody bad. Maybe supermarket/school runners which wouldn’t help. Other than that they seem to be a bloody good motor. I think @Flyblown has had a good run from them?

mitisi outlander or suzuki escudo are good and have v6 engines too

I've got a 2015 V6 Hilux. Had it since new. Awesome truck.

Mine averages 13.05 L/100km for non-towing, and 14.5 L/100km when towing.

If you are serious off roading, the 2015 year is a bad one for this model. It is missing the limited slip diff due to the stability control requirements that came into force at that time, and was pre the factory fitted diff lock.

Yeah wont be newer models.
Probably top out maybe 2010 for the models I suggested.
No CVT in the nissans either @gonetropo but my nissan Murano V6 does have one. That does have an issue I should get you to look at but that is probably electrical.
The highlander sounds ok and I do know the Outlander go well so that is definitely a consideration if I want a full body type over a ute. A vitara or possibly a rav could slip 8n there too. The outlander has a 2.6 which might be ok
It wont be in the next few months, more likely next year will see what the fuel price is then
26 cents is bigger all really though
Diesel used to be 3/4 the price of petrol, now it's much the same. It would have to be 50-60c a litre to be like it was.
TBH I don't really need a LWB prado either so the smaller wagons could work but if I want a ute it comes back to hilux or navara.
The nissan motors are very good.
And yes while I could get away with an all wheel drive model as I do shit all proper river crossings etc, there is that part of me that wants a proper 4wd just in case

If you're thinking about towing check the tow ratings. The current Highlanders are only 2000kg braked, less than you'd think for their size

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Originally Posted by jakewire

I'm interested in this as well, I'm just not sure where diesel is going, there was talk at work today of removing road tax and adopting an English like colour system.
Will diesel climb higher
Older vehicles may have gone for may hundreds of thousands of Km but I doubt mine will do anywhere near that and service costs are ridiculous
I had a 4 yr service a month ago , not much change out of nearly 800$. Can't wait till I hit my 50 or 60thou Km one , Not.
starting to suck really.
A reliable decently strong petrol engine seems more and more attractive.

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I'm not calling BS but would find this hard to believe.
With the increase in EVs there will eventually be a need to introduce RUCs for these vehicle, the government keeps kicking the can down the road but will introduce it eventually, the existing RUC system for diesel vehicles will work perfectly.
Where it gets a little tricky is with petrol PHEVs, how do you charge RUCs on a vehicle that may be using EV 90% of the time or 10% depending on the owners use case.
The obvious solution would be to have RUCs on petrols too and scrap the taxes applied to the petrol.

Actually about it they'll probably intorduce some convoluted system that allows them to keep the tax on petrol to ensure all the boat owners continue paying their "fair share" of extra tax.

With the near parity of petrol and diesel price I too thought it'd make more sense to go petrol over diesel.
I have a Diesel V6 Discovery and a Petrol V8 discovery that I worked out the cost per 1000km on:
-the diesel will do about 10l/100km normal driving and 13ish l/100km towing
-the petrol will do 14ish /100km normal driving and 15-20 l/100km towing

For daily usage the diesel still works out cheaper due to the better fuel economy, for towing the diesel is way cheaper.
If you were talking smaller vehicles then petrol is probably the better way to go as fuel consumption gets much closer, but for utes and SUVs I think diesel will remain the way to go for a very long time.

Diesel also has the advantage of more torque which usually makes for better towing and more range on tank of fuel.
My petrol Discovery will do a max of 600km to a tank (maybe more if i take the risk) whereas 800km is easy on the diesel which is nice on a weekend away knowing if I fill up before I leave home I'll make it home again without having to find a petrol station.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beetroot

I'm not calling BS but would find this hard to believe.
With the increase in EVs there will eventually be a need to introduce RUCs for these vehicle, the government keeps kicking the can down the road but will introduce it eventually, the existing RUC system for diesel vehicles will work perfectly.
Where it gets a little tricky is with petrol PHEVs, how do you charge RUCs on a vehicle that may be using EV 90% of the time or 10% depending on the owners use case.
The obvious solution would be to have RUCs on petrols too and scrap the taxes applied to the petrol.

Actually about it they'll probably intorduce some convoluted system that allows them to keep the tax on petrol to ensure all the boat owners continue paying their "fair share" of extra tax.

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Boats can claim back the road tax under the claim back scheme. It's the same as farmers and forestry companies claiming back for off road miles. In some cases it's huge $$$$ amounts for the bigger companies doing the claim backs - I would be interested to find out if outfits like the smaller ferry outfits running outboard powered boats are claiming back because it would work out to probably several thousand a year!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snowgrass

I seriously looked at the 1GR 4 litre Toyotas but stuck with a diesel for towing and river crossings etc. Weekend vehicle so not too fussed on fuel costs. One issue I found (admittedly from reading the net and a couple of vehicles I looked at) with the Toyota motors are oil feed problems resulting in motors needing rebuilt. A fair bit of it I think is due to short runs causing sludging. Check under the oil filler caps and down the fill tubes. Will give an idea of what the inside is like. Both Prados in town I looked at were bloody bad. Maybe supermarket/school runners which wouldn’t help. Other than that they seem to be a bloody good motor. I think @Flyblown has had a good run from them?

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Really interesting, I've heard this before from someone else - I always considered petrols a better option for start/stop short running but now I think that's an old fashioned notion now. Also, the only real cost saving I've noticed for servicing is the lower capacity of the sump - everything else being equal for my vehicles the petrol car oil filter is actually more expensive than the diesel and the consumables and labour are basically the same. Also, with the modern injected petrols repair costs for the fuel injection gear is pretty comparable to the diesel injection system and surprisingly takes a lot longer to replace typically due to the amount of crap that you have to strip off the engine just to get to the bits! The fuel economy between petrol and diesel in the same useage is something that while it exists is only really a factor if you are doing more than say 15 or 20K km's a year...

When I did the math years ago on this the deciding factors were price difference and similar economy.
This was back when it was recommended to do oil change on turbo diesels every 5k vs 10k for patrols.
If the 2 vehicles got exactly the same mileage, it took 20000 or so k's a year to start to be cost effective.
This was back when diesel had just risen from maybe 2/3rds the price of petrol to approx 3/4.
My reckoning is that if it is all but the same price, RUC's wreck it. Unless you really need a diesel for towing etc then petrol starts to look more attractive.
Also well aware that a lot of those older diesel have issues with heads and head gaskets once they get up in the mileage. Reasoning the petrols not as bad especially if there is a large price difference between the petrol and diesel model in favour of the petrol.
Another thing that used to annoy me was how you would drive around with the cheaper diesel fuel then have to buy more RUCs. Tricks you into doing more than you might with a petrol and copping it at the bowser.

Diesel contains 15% more calorific value per litre than petrol, so that's a bit more energy efficiency right off the bat. Then the injection pressure and atomisation process of diesel injection adds yet more efficiency.

Most old style large capacity lazy diesels are renown for longevity. And having looked at the average fuel consumption people on here are getting from their modern diesel 4x4s and the 1 or 2L/100km improvement over the older engines does not see me wishing to blow $$$ on a new vehicle when my 25 year old one works perfectly well for me...and is completely maintainable by me.

Going to a UK style colour coding of diesel would be dumb. Its complicated, they have three colours, it means yet more costs on farmers for storage of different coloured bloody diesel. RUC's work fine, and the govt makes a shitload more tax out of RUC's than they ever would be just taxing diesel. A 50 tonne B combination consuming 9 x toyota hiluxes work of diesel every 100km will be paying waaay more than 9 x 3 tonnes of RUC.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by XR500

Diesel contains 15% more calorific value per litre than petrol, so that's a bit more energy efficiency right off the bat. Then the injection pressure and atomisation process of diesel injection adds yet more efficiency.

Most old style large capacity lazy diesels are renown for longevity. And having looked at the average fuel consumption people on here are getting from their modern diesel 4x4s and the 1 or 2L/100km improvement over the older engines does not see me wishing to blow $$$ on a new vehicle when my 25 year old one works perfectly well for me...and is completely maintainable by me.

Going to a UK style colour coding of diesel would be dumb. Its complicated, they have three colours, it means yet more costs on farmers for storage of different coloured bloody diesel. RUC's work fine, and the govt makes a shitload more tax out of RUC's than they ever would be just taxing diesel. A 50 tonne B combination consuming 9 x toyota hiluxes work of diesel every 100km will be paying waaay more than 9 x 3 tonnes of RUC.

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If you use the LR Disco as an example, the newgen engines don't necessarily get better fuel economy but you get considerably more power for the same fuel consumption.

I thought I'd be a diehard old school diesel fan but I bought a Disco 3 with a 2.7L V6 paired with a 6 speed trans, the difference between that and previous gen vehicles is not even comparable.
Admittedly I think the transmission is one of the best improvements, the difference between the 6 speed ZF and 4 speed ZF is possibly the biggest upgrade in the vehicles drive train, especially when towing.

I'm not doubting that the older diesel are great in their simplicity ( although they still had EGR valve back in the mid 90s) but I think many common rail engines have proven to be reliable in the long term, with many doing very high kms.
Biggest issue IMO is the cost of parts is considerably higher in the modern engine, at least from what I've experienced.

I got around the need for a fancy trans in my Land Rover by just sticking a 6.5L GMC diesel in my Stage 1 V8: 2 gear changes needed between Waiouru and Palmy:thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beetroot

If you use the LR Disco as an example, the newgen engines don't necessarily get better fuel economy but you get considerably more power for the same fuel consumption.

I thought I'd be a diehard old school diesel fan but I bought a Disco 3 with a 2.7L V6 paired with a 6 speed trans, the difference between that and previous gen vehicles is not even comparable.
Admittedly I think the transmission is one of the best improvements, the difference between the 6 speed ZF and 4 speed ZF is possibly the biggest upgrade in the vehicles drive train, especially when towing.

I'm not doubting that the older diesel are great in their simplicity ( although they still had EGR valve back in the mid 90s) but I think many common rail engines have proven to be reliable in the long term, with many doing very high kms.
Biggest issue IMO is the cost of parts is considerably higher in the modern engine, at least from what I've experienced.

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I suspect that the cost of parts isn't that much higher i.e. the Ranger to replace fuel rail, 5 injectors and injection pump inc. labour = $8500 or so - the Safari to do 6 injectors injection pump and the rest of that setup with the new replacement kit is roughly comparable - but with the older gear likely you can have the vehicle off the road a few days longer and get the bits rebuilt whereas the Ranger spec kit they put in a bin. If you consider the Safari again, I've taken out a set of engine mounts in the SWB I had roughly every 10,000Km towing, until I custom built a set that won't break (and still haven't 16 years later and several hundred KM). Crap Nissan design, towing stuffs the mounts young. I've done one set in the Ranger in 115,000Km's... Again, towing heavy is bloody hard on mounts with looong periods on sustained power (this is probably more correct a factor of wind resistance on the larger surface area of big box trailers and boats than weight).

Servicing to factory specs on the current vehicles is roughly comparative petrol-diesel - biggest difference seems to be oil price and volume from what I've been billed recently. When towing large trailers (again this isn't everyone's use or requirement) petrol can get up to 25L/100Km or more while diesel might increas by 25% so 10-12.5L/100Km. That is an incredible saving if you do a lot of trailer miles, especially on a higher grade of petrol which could be over $3 a litre! In my case, that's more than double the fuel bill on a towing trip so if I'm doing 600Km round trip so petrol bill $450, diesel $175+RUC. That's noticeable.

so a bit side tracked on other models.
So the prados a bit thirsty, same for the nissans? Their engines are best in class. The VQ series do very well

I'm right off diesel's with the current fuel prices, so expensive & sounds like it's not going to be reducing anytime soon & fukin around with RUC's

Even brought a petrol Van for work, will be selling my Ranger soon ( I love the truck but just not using it, I don't tow etc so not needed ) but I did buy a new wagon as a spare for the kids to drive & for me to use until my new "petrol" GR turns up.


This thing is so much fun to drive, put a new stereo in it ( had a factory mini disc player, like wtf lol ) couple of new tyres & some steelies & just gotta chuck on a light bar, plus it's a V6 chur chur I call it the "scud" hahahaha


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The petrol thing is good, I currently have the use of a relatives car while they are not driving and it's bloody good. Not so good when I'm travelling and needing to take a lot ofkit with me, but for little errands around town it's really handy. Interestingly, it's getting me about 8.4L/100Km where the ute is 8.7 currently so in terms of fuel it's not hugely cheaper in terms of fuel costs.