Getting The Knife Sharp

It is said that we learn from our mistakes,it is also said the day you stop learning is the day you begin to die.
Getting knives sharp is something I have always been passionate about and Im still learning.
Reading comments on this great forum in last year has given me new insight about some things,Ive had to eat humble pie too..that was good for me to do as the learning was priceless.
Bruce made comment re keeping angle constant and just to keep going with harder steel knife...took that on board and revisited a couple of knives that I just couldnt quite get right before...got angle really good then switched to super fine/hard stone and continued.. results are hair shaving sharp.
2 years ago I made a custom knife on course,as 50th birthday gift from my wife...only in last month have I really got to grips with getting it super sharp,I had origonally left blade very meaty with rounded shoulders for strength..but realised was shooting self in foot.so got stuck in and took shoulders right off blade so have ended up with sort of a long shallow angled scandi grind maybe 15mm from my fat raw cast section down to razor edge...I also took about 5mm off back of blade along the spine...figgured no way will I grind down that far in remaining 30 years on this earth so why carry the extra metal around the hill???
processed two goats with knife yesterday and MUCH better to use and taking that 5mm off back edge dropped point back closer to level of back of handle..more to my liking have never liked a sweeping skinning blade.
That brings me to another wee tootoo I did last week..had old green river?? works knife with sweeping skinning blade,close to half worn down but still lots of life left in it..but I dont like swept blade...asked question on this a month or so back,was it posible to rebend it...NO was answer but maybe grind it to more user liked shape..so I took big slice off tip and rear..not quite enough to have it straight backed but nearly..it has had added bonus of creating a much better point. love using that knife now..before it sat un used.
mate had older boning knife sort of a lamb skinner shape..he really liked knife but it was really blunt.Ive put edge back on it twice over last 18mths but it had really pronounced shoulders...a blade cross section that was fat till about 5mm from edge then steep taper to ccutting edge... he gave it to me the other week with permission to "get stuck into it,use grinder if needed" so I took it to shed and did get stuck in..I dont have linisher but have got good at using 4" bench grinder with blade just touching wheel at very very shallow angle..its fine balancing act of mark blade up too high..but get stuck in I did,took shoulder back from 5mm to about 10mm back from edge,then used rough stone,then fine stone to finish it off...gave it back to him and week later after cutting up ANOTHER pig..we is stoked,completely different knife to use and very sharp.
Now I have another wee delima and its caused a learning in of itself,it involves the use of a steel.Having served my time on fish filleting line,I learned that steeling can be done both ways and sometimes putting point of steel onto table and stroking knife down from handle of steel towards the tip while looking along steel can be VERY effective,It allows you to watch your steeling angle...I watched mate use steel out of corner of my eye and noticed on some strokes the angle between blade and steel was far far to steep..EG knife was close to 45 degrees into steel..PERSONALLY I prefer knife to be much flatter onto steel so its brushing along stroking feather edge back into line not grinding it off...now I have to work out how to tell my older much experienced mate this without offending him (Ive already threatend bodily injury if catch him using drag through grinding thing again) Im positive with wee tweek to technique his knives will stay sharper for longer.
Comment by Mr Songhurst some time back...I now polish blade using fine wet n dry sand paper...lovely to see a dark dirty looking blade come back to mirror finish..the look on face of "dirty old pig hunter" when the trusty previously rusty svord is removed from sheath is priceless.
Thankyou to all you folks for caring enough to pass on knowledge,sometimes without even knowing you are doing it.
My left arm is often seen hairless,when you give me a knife to sharpen you find out why.
Hopefully this rambling may help someone somehow
Sharp blades
Milky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY6aCdQHxt8

I don’t overthink things

And I don’t care what the blade is, if it’s sharp then get the meat off, cool it then carry it

Attachment 251637

A wee strop up on the barrel and I’m good to go again

Attachment 251638

your mercator photo shows what I would call a perfect steeling angle.
another lesson was how much better the green river is compared to the knifecut...the sound is so different when using steel,one is swish the other a screech.

That knife you sharpened for me is still just as sharp. Skinned out a few heads with it now. Might have to come around for a tutor session

Most of the knife sharpening systems work on the same principle of a constant angle - I have a ScarySharp and it's definitely helped get my knives sharp, especially the ones with the really hard steels that I found difficult to sharpen freehand. I think a lot of practise could also do the trick but I only sharpen knives monthly at most so appreciate the ease of a guided system.

I started out using an Outdoor Edge with replacement blades, as no one ever taught me how to sharpen knives. Found them dangerously sharp and just didn't like the disposable nature of the blades. So, invested a Benchmade Worksharp sharpening tool and a quality knife (Argali Serac with S35VN steel). The great thing about the Worksharp tool is it teaches you the blade angles and the process - moving through coarse and fine diamond, ceramic then leather. Don't need to carry it in field as will easily process a few deer before requiring sharpening. Always sharpen when I got back. Really enjoy the process now and sharpen all the knives in the house regularly - only to see them used to cut on plates etc...

The last roar I made the fatal mistake of walking in 6 hours, and had a nagging concern about my quick gear pack. Result = no kill kit and knife. Had to borrow my mate's. Now carry two knives.

I ended up with the main chunk of an early scary sharp from someone on here (can't recall who but thanks) and built a couple of stone holders for it. Works bloody well, best sharpener I've used for my style and use.

Worst thing I've found for knives is wives and dishwashers, instant blunteners both. I'm going to get tricky one day, and make up a guided device to hold a 5" angle grinder with a sanding disc on it so I can thin blades like what was mentioned in the OP's post. Take the rounded section back down to a convex shape and go from there - will be much easier to sharpen if you have a knife that has worn fat and a lot easier than trying to freehold it!

Dishwashers not only blunten.they change temper and then knife REALLY sucks to sharpen....well that's what I believe happens anyway.just can't seem to get any feather edge on one once been through dish washer.

Try these stones just one in 500 Grit would get you started.
https://piranhatools.co.nz/products/...iant=348381229

They really are good especially with the modern harder steel grades

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Originally Posted by Low box

Most of the knife sharpening systems work on the same principle of a constant angle - I have a ScarySharp and it's definitely helped get my knives sharp, especially the ones with the really hard steels that I found difficult to sharpen freehand. I think a lot of practise could also do the trick but I only sharpen knives monthly at most so appreciate the ease of a guided system.

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One of the biggest issues with freehand sharpening hard/abrasion resistant steels is using to fine a stone/a not suitable abrasive. Having to sharpen for a long time leads to inconsistent edge angles and a convexed bevel. A good quality 400 grit diamond plate will chew through even the hardest steels.

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Originally Posted by TeRei

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY6aCdQHxt8

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That's interesting video...in 52 years on God's green earth that is the first n only time I have ever seen a stone used that way.... I always have stone on bench or better still in vice block and knife is pressed down onto it. The angle thing he shows is great....with the mighty bacho you just need to tilt much further till the cutting edge is flat on stone. Can't argue with his results,it's just different.i can see it leading to even worse angle errors until/unless you have technique down pat.his knives are softer steel I believe too.same as my green river.interesting his two knives are nearly identical lamb Skinner's.

Superior Swords do the Spartan products - they are quite affordable and in a guided sharpening device seem to do the job.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

That's interesting video...in 52 years on God's green earth that is the first n only time I have ever seen a stone used that way.... I always have stone on bench or better still in vice block and knife is pressed down onto it. The angle thing he shows is great....with the mighty bacho you just need to tilt much further till the cutting edge is flat on stone. Can't argue with his results,it's just different.i can see it leading to even worse angle errors until/unless you have technique down pat.his knives are softer steel I believe too.same as my green river.interesting his two knives are nearly identical lamb Skinner's.

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I used to do that and got ok to crap results thinking that was as good as it got. I did it to a guys stone without realising what it can do one time. It causes stars in your eyes apparently. That was from the other stone bouncing off the back of my head - the circular motion can cause uneven wear on the stone apparently which requires the stone's surface to be leveled again to make it useable for other techniques. Every time I use a stone now I get that uneasy feeling and still don't use circular motions. It was a true learning opportunity haha.

I enjoy the whole process. Quite relaxing standing at kitchen bench sharpening all the knives. We love cooking so have decent Japanese/European knives. Still only use the cheap works knives for hunting and butchery. Bugger the pocket knives for hunting, tried going light weight option over the roar, not a fan of breaking down animal with small knife, just didn’t feel right, way better with bigger blade IMO
Bought some decent quality Japanese whetstones.
Quick going over on the 1000, then quick polish on 3000 then onto homemade strop which is a leather welding gauntlet unstitched and staples onto a piece of matai floor board. Touch of autosol polish and the edge comes up like a mirror.
I use the strop for taking the burr off in between stones as well.

Sharpening knives is certainly something that I continue to learn more about. Spent fifteen years using them daily at the meat works in the bonning room and make the odd knife at home now (also have a lot to learn here). One of the most helpful things I found when steeling your knife was to shift your grip from normal to having the back of the knife between index and middle finger, surprising how much easier it is to see the actual angle you are steeling your knife at. This was how we taught some of the newbies and had surpising results for a lot of the old hands too, takes away the tendency to roll your wrist.

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Originally Posted by McNotty

I enjoy the whole process. Quite relaxing standing at kitchen bench sharpening all the knives. We love cooking so have decent Japanese/European knives. Still only use the cheap works knives for hunting and butchery. Bugger the pocket knives for hunting, tried going light weight option over the roar, not a fan of breaking down animal with small knife, just didn’t feel right, way better with bigger blade IMO
Bought some decent quality Japanese whetstones.
Quick going over on the 1000, then quick polish on 3000 then onto homemade strop which is a leather welding gauntlet unstitched and staples onto a piece of matai floor board. Touch of autosol polish and the edge comes up like a mirror.
I use the strop for taking the burr off in between stones as well.

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Yeah, I pretty much don't use a folding knife for anything animal related now - had a fairly expensive folder lose it's locking device on me (the lock mechanism literally failed and broke apart internally). This resulted in the bloody thing trying to fold up and attack my fingers on a puncturing cut into an animal - luckily it pushed through the skin prior to folding all the way up and slicing me. Had a piece of fairly stout wire nearby on the ground, managed to jury rig the thing very securely in the open position to finish the job and at the end it went for a quick flight off a cliff into a deep, dark hole in the river below never to attempt that trick again. Now, the only knives that try that trick on me are the buggers that come from China with concealed handle bolster with several rivets down them, but only the first one is actually through the steel in the blade of the knife. Shitty trick that!

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Originally Posted by Low box

Most of the knife sharpening systems work on the same principle of a constant angle - I have a ScarySharp and it's definitely helped get my knives sharp, especially the ones with the really hard steels that I found difficult to sharpen freehand. I think a lot of practise could also do the trick but I only sharpen knives monthly at most so appreciate the ease of a guided system.

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Geoff is a talented dude. We have used all 3 models. I have model 3 and a spare at home and my son has model 3 as well.My son now sharpens knives for 3 other blokes around him. LOL. I have sharpened some Victory and Knifecut knives on a stone using WD40. They are very sharp but not before a fair amount of cursing. It is an art.

Not sure which model the one I have is (or was as its a bit bastardised by back yard improver haha). It has a flat across the back as the angle guide not the two vertical rollers and the knife clamp is part of the base, not able to be rotated like the version 3. I actually quite like it for reasons of OCD, the knife support is wider and the stone can be made to travel perpendicular to the entire length of the blade not leaving lines radiating from one point if that makes sense. Looks a bit nicer when sharpened I feel, but just as effective in use. Little bit slower as you have to manually flip the knife over and reclamp it not rotate it clamped...

This will be interesting to see how it goes. Very old piece of leaf spring at guess 60-70 at least.roughed it out 9 years ago and revisited it in last week.LOTS of grinding down to thin it back..must have been 5mm to begin with.its still got slight bend in it from spring.its ok as bends inwards/upwards for right handed user lol. Maybe 5mm over entire length at most. Poked in oven at 220 degrees for nearly hour then left it alone to cool down.went from shiney to the bronze it is now and seems to hold edge well,or at least will steel up sharp now which it wouldn't before.time will tell if any good or will be relegated to garden tool.Attachment 251989

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

your mercator photo shows what I would call a perfect steeling angle.
another lesson was how much better the green river is compared to the knifecut...the sound is so different when using steel,one is swish the other a screech.

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Reckon you be sharpening my knife from now on.

Back when I made knife in workshop over the weekend via gift voucher from my wife,there were many handy tools that caught my attention
One of the most handy was a rotating kind of vice which allowed person to clamp handle of blade with blade itself sticking out horizontal towards you. Rather intimidating looking at blade pointing at my fat puku but very handy to draw file the last bit of edge/put angle on edge. It's stuck in my mind and yesterday I worked out red neck way to do it myself. Simple G clamp in my bench vise. G clamp holds blade right up by handle and bench vise grips G clamp wherever on curved bit of its body makes suitable angle,this allowed not only draw filing but I took stone to blade while held there and worked on it some too. Might revisit this later as if stone held flat and drawn across blade it's sort of how commercial sharpeners work with blade held at fixed angle. Keeping stone flat would be the key.