Knife sharpening angles

Interested to hear what is working for others and why. I myself like a thin taper as I don't do many long sessions on knife anymore and are happier to have fast cutting knife that needs little more care and touching up.however my pig hunting mate bluntens knives I have got razor sharp for him something terribly.Im convinced the issue is his steeling technique and more importantly angle. I can stone a knife up super sharp for him with stoned edge of about 3 mm visible on each side of blade,knife comes back to me months later with no visible stoned bit left and front of blade not much sharper or narrower than the back!!!!. This time around I've tried something different,and radicle for me. I've increased the angle right up on my stoning jig to give him a edge angle that's "blunter" so should more closely match his steeling angle.i know it won't cut as fast/ easy,but in theory it should be more resistant to knocks etc. I did two bachos he supplied one each way.be interesting to see which lasts best for him.

Another issue could be the type of steel? Some of the "steels" you get are just knife rooters plain and simple, they won't do anything any good. I keep mentioning fine cut (#4, #5 etc) Cambrian brand steels or the modern equivalent, can get them as a 450mm or a slightly shorter version but they were a revelation for me with regard to steeling up edges. One of those steels with a handful of swipes and the knife's edge is as good as it ever was.

The best thing is as well, my stoning intervals on the Scary Sharp have gone from every few months to once or twice a year so the knife blades are going to be lasting a lot longer just with the change to this type of steel.

What i was finding prior was similar to what you describe from your mate, the edge of the blade rolled back and the clean stoned bevel no longer present.

If he is trying to sharpen using his steel that is going to be the first problem, if they are coming that basically flat then tell him not to cut so much bone and concrete with his knife. No3 nails it with the type of steel, if it is soft no amount of black magic will keep it sharp.

I didn't mention the draw through bluntener....I hate that thing with vengeance,great when new but once worn they round off the edge and shoulders get very blunt...that's what I was trying to discribe before,knives come back with shoulder now right by leading edge instead of 2-3 mm back from it.

I once had some friends who asked me to look at a kitchen knife that was as blunt as the back, when I asked how they sharpened it they showed me one of those notch sharpeners where you drag the knife between two metal strips.
It was so worn out that it was no longer v shaped, so they were actively taking the edge off it!

About the only use I see for those carbide things is for taking the rounding off really rooted blades to save your fancy stones from excess wear! But when they get that bad that the carbides are rounded and no longer at the right angles they are only good for the bin (unless you can get the carbide edges out and turn them around, some let you do that).

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

I didn't mention the draw through bluntener....I hate that thing with vengeance,great when new but once worn they round off the edge and shoulders get very blunt...that's what I was trying to discribe before,knives come back with shoulder now right by leading edge instead of 2-3 mm back from it.

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That may well contribute to 90% of the problem :)

They can be used, they will never be as good as other sharpening systems, and you have to use a very very light touch, which most people wont.

There was a bloke on YouTube did this good video showing that his toilet bowl sharpened better than one of them draw throughs :)

Sharpened up a Knifecut knife on the Scary Sharp. It was very sharp and the eldest dog jumped up at me and I opened my middle finger to the bone on the middle knuckle in a split second. A long deep cut either side of the knuckle. A razor could not have done a better cut.

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Originally Posted by TeRei

Sharpened up a Knifecut knife on the Scary Sharp. It was very sharp and the eldest dog jumped up at me and I opened my middle finger to the bone on the middle knuckle in a split second. A long deep cut either side of the knuckle. A razor could not have done a better cut.

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Ouch, that's a recipe for disaster if you get a tendon or something critical in the wrong place. I knocked a freshly sharpened axe off a bench onto my finger the other day, should have been a stitch job but did it myself with steri strips... Stupidly managed to get the same spot with the same axe about 7 weeks later just as it healed and opened the same scar just not quite as deep. So sharp tools are both a blessing and a curse! I couldn't blame the dog either haha.

I started down the 'proper sharpened' journey after stabbing myself with a knife so blunt it didn't deserve the label knife, have tried just about every gimmick man has invented and can't go past the scary sharp style guided stone systems with the Cambrian steels.

Blunting bachos, is that a thing? Bachos are predominantly what I use, once in a while I'll run them over a ceramic rod, good as new. I have flash carbon steel knives but I can never keep them sharp so they stay in a draw.

Yep - and they can be buggers to get sharp again. I have one in the kitchen as a heavy duty chopping knife for when the carving knives are too big. It goes through the dishwasher and all manner of abuse, and the edge doesn't like it at all.

I have found that the Cambrian fine steels are the only steels I've had that will do anything with the Bahco edge, and I have a fleet of el cheapo and expensive ones right up to diamond steels and hones. The diamond ones are next to useless for the Bahco edge for whatever reason, I suspect they are just too short to roll the edge's feather and also too small a radius. I've never had to fully recut the edge of a Bahco knife, but keeping the edge up to par was a menace for a long time until I tried the good butcher steels.

If the carbon steel blades are giving issues, try a guided stone setup if you haven't. They do a lot of good work for you in terms of accurately recutting the edge bevel, and once you have the correct bevel it's a lot easier to keep it up to par. Stainless blades are a bit the same, need a really accurate setup to get the bevel back and then they are not too bad to keep up to par.

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Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Interested to hear what is working for others and why. I myself like a thin taper as I don't do many long sessions on knife anymore and are happier to have fast cutting knife that needs little more care and touching up.however my pig hunting mate bluntens knives I have got razor sharp for him something terribly.Im convinced the issue is his steeling technique and more importantly angle. I can stone a knife up super sharp for him with stoned edge of about 3 mm visible on each side of blade,knife comes back to me months later with no visible stoned bit left and front of blade not much sharper or narrower than the back!!!!. This time around I've tried something different,and radicle for me. I've increased the angle right up on my stoning jig to give him a edge angle that's "blunter" so should more closely match his steeling angle.i know it won't cut as fast/ easy,but in theory it should be more resistant to knocks etc. I did two bachos he supplied one each way.be interesting to see which lasts best for him.

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Pig hair is farking hard on blades, combine that with a shit pull through and i don't think you have much hope in keeping the knife sharp for long. Get him a simple strop, harder to fuck the edge than a steel, and just if not more effective.

Well at the local freezing works they have a not only a sharpening robot but also a small bench mount.
Bothe set up at the same angle. 18 degrees I think.
It's the optimum for edge and general retention.
Some don't like it but most are ok.
If you go at the bone a bit steep you wreck the edge and these guy are a bit like that generally.
Also if old mate is using the steel on the edge different to you that's a problem too.
Gotta be the same.
Also less steeling is more better.
The guys at the works will do their 20 seconds of cuts (boning chain) then a couple of very light passes on the steel.
That's it. They look like serial killers lol.
If you steel a knife like the old tegel chicken ads you are doing it wrong.
I would suggest he is doing both.
Lots of the steel and wrong angle

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Originally Posted by No.3

Yep - and they can be buggers to get sharp again. I have one in the kitchen as a heavy duty chopping knife for when the carving knives are too big. It goes through the dishwasher and all manner of abuse, and the edge doesn't like it at all.

I have found that the Cambrian fine steels are the only steels I've had that will do anything with the Bahco edge, and I have a fleet of el cheapo and expensive ones right up to diamond steels and hones. The diamond ones are next to useless for the Bahco edge for whatever reason, I suspect they are just too short to roll the edge's feather and also too small a radius. I've never had to fully recut the edge of a Bahco knife, but keeping the edge up to par was a menace for a long time until I tried the good butcher steels.

If the carbon steel blades are giving issues, try a guided stone setup if you haven't. They do a lot of good work for you in terms of accurately recutting the edge bevel, and once you have the correct bevel it's a lot easier to keep it up to par. Stainless blades are a bit the same, need a really accurate setup to get the bevel back and then they are not too bad to keep up to par.

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Relatively soft stainless lile th bahcos can be a real pain to deburr. The edge just wants to keep flipping back and forward. Couple of pulls through the end of some soft wood can help shear a tricky burr

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Originally Posted by Three O'Three

Blunting bachos, is that a thing? Bachos are predominantly what I use, once in a while I'll run them over a ceramic rod, good as new. I have flash carbon steel knives but I can never keep them sharp so they stay in a draw.

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Yes well....I was shocked but he had created a shoulder and rounded edge... I even needed Bench grinder to bring it back!!!

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Originally Posted by csmiffy

Well at the local freezing works they have a not only a sharpening robot but also a small bench mount.
Bothe set up at the same angle. 18 degrees I think.
It's the optimum for edge and general retention.
Some don't like it but most are ok.
If you go at the bone a bit steep you wreck the edge and these guy are a bit like that generally.
Also if old mate is using the steel on the edge different to you that's a problem too.
Gotta be the same.
Also less steeling is more better.
The guys at the works will do their 20 seconds of cuts (boning chain) then a couple of very light passes on the steel.
That's it. They look like serial killers lol.
If you steel a knife like the old tegel chicken ads you are doing it wrong.
I would suggest he is doing both.
Lots of the steel and wrong angle

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The old Tegel ads are a bit rough, but if you are 'on' it's a very quick way to flick a good bevel back to a sharp edge. The technique for doing that the Tegel way is useless on anything but those long 450mm very slightly curved to a point butcher steels (Cambrian again, have I mentioned that name? But there are others). Otherwise every time you contact the knife to the steel you end up tapping the edge and you'll get a ripple in it. That's how you start chasing your tail and next step you've stuffed the edge and pushed the 'burr' right over to one side (and it's usually right where you want to do most of the cutting with the blade). Part of the issue is most people unless they are very careful will hit one side of the blade much harder than the other, so are doomed to an uneven and blunt result. A fine cut steel will mean you don't have to use so much force and very much helps with the uneven effort problem.