Thread: Minimum pack contents

When I was a NZ Mountain Safety Council bushcraft instructor, a weekend course was organised for instructors. It was in May, and during a wet weekend. The course was based in a residential camp. After dinner on Saturday night, we were sitting in front of the fireplace enjoying the warmth, when the course organiser told us to quickly go and return with our survival kits. When we were assembled in the hall clutching our kits, he asked: "How many of you have ever had to use your survival kit? Put you hand up!" I put my hand up, as did another instructor (like me, he was a hunter). "Right", said the organiser, all of you follow me". He strode out into the darkness and rain. We walked into the bush surrounding the camp, then he pointed out spots where 2 people at a time were to spend the night! We were told that the camp would be locked as soon as he returned to it, and told to assemble in the hall at daybreak, when the doors would be unlocked.
Back in the hall, next morning, he asked: "How many of you will now alter the contents of your survival kit? Put your hand up!" Everybody, except we 2 hunters, put a hand up. Most of those people had based their survival kit contents from a list they may have seen in a book.

In order to plan what you should carry in your pack, imagine this: You have had an immobilising accident (very likely for hunters), it is raining (or about to rain), cold, nearly dark, and you haven't eaten since breakfast. You are obviously going to be at that spot at least for the night, and nobody knows where you are. What equipment would you want to have with you?

In NZ, searches of 3-4 days, and sometimes up to 10 days, occur.

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

When I was a NZ Mountain Safety Council bushcraft instructor, a weekend course was organised for instructors. It was in May, and during a wet weekend. The course was based in a residential camp. After dinner on Saturday night, we were sitting in front of the fireplace enjoying the warmth, when the course organiser told us to quickly go and return with our survival kits. When we were assembled in the hall clutching our kits, he asked: "How many of you have ever had to use your survival kit? Put you hand up!" I put my hand up, as did another instructor (like me, he was a hunter). "Right", said the organiser, all of you follow me". He strode out into the darkness and rain. We walked into the bush surrounding the camp, then he pointed out spots where 2 people at a time were to spend the night! We were told that the camp would be locked as soon as he returned to it, and told to assemble in the hall at daybreak, when the doors would be unlocked.
Back in the hall, next morning, he asked: "How many of you will now alter the contents of your survival kit? Put your hand up!" Everybody, except we 2 hunters, put a hand up. Most of those people had based their survival kit contents from a list they may have seen in a book.

In order to plan what you should carry in your pack, imagine this: You have had an immobilising accident (very likely for hunters), it is raining (or about to rain), cold, nearly dark, and you haven't eaten since breakfast. You are obviously going to be at that spot at least for the night, and nobody knows where you are. What equipment would you want to have with you?

In NZ, searches of 3-4 days, and sometimes up to 10 days, occur.

So can you list your items I think I have what I need but I've never had to use them yet.

Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

So can you list your items I think I have what I need but I've never had to use them yet.

Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

If you read the second to last paragraph of my post, think of: pain relief, shelter, warmth (fire, clothing), light (if you haven't got any light, you can't do diddley on a dark night in the bush), food, water (you may not be close to a stream), signalling equipment (a whistle is great- it can be heard well beyond the range of a human voice).
Be aware that the combination of an injury, and wet and cold conditions, can be fatal.

And consider this: you may not be found for a day or three: a search won't take place until you are notified as overdue (will somebody do that? People who live alone often don't tell anyone when/where they're going bush). Also, SAR will need a general location of where you are operating.

There are some great suggestions in the earlier posts..

Originally Posted by 25/08 IMP

So can you list your items I think I have what I need but I've never had to use them yet.

Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk

I was a Mountain Safety Instructor for over 30 years and would never have pulled that stunt on anyone - I would have told him to get fucked and walked back inside

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

I was a Mountain Safety Instructor for over 30 years and would never have pulled that stunt on anyone - I would have told him to get fucked and walked back inside

It was actually a very good teaching technique..the course participants were instructors who taught their "clients" about survival kits, but had never actually used one...how much credibility would they have? The fact that most of them decided they needed to change the contents of their survival kit when they got home proves the message was conveyed to them.
I managed an instructor group for 22 years, and recruited people who had done the hard yards, had done dumb things in the bush and learned from them. I wanted course participants to be able learn from the instructor's experience. I had a favourite mantra: Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from poor judgement. One of my instructors, a former Urewera culler, had developed hypothermia as a 20 year old and nearly died, 30 metres from a hut. He would tell the clients on a course the story of his near miss, sitting in the bush, leaning back against a tree, and have the whole group spellbound by the saga. So here was a man who had mana, that you knew you should listen to. Compare him to a bushcraft instructor I saw who took a session on hypothermia by reading aloud the contents of a pamphlet on the subject. Who had the most credibility?
Barry the hunter: if you had stormed off and gone back to the camp...the doors were locked! The course organiser had covered that! He was the legendary Bob Badland, MSC Firearms Programme Manager for ages, and one of the best hunters I ever came across.

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

It was actually a very good teaching technique..the course participants were instructors who taught their "clients" about survival kits, but had never actually used one...how much credibility would they have? The fact that most of them decided they needed to change the contents of their survival kit when they got home proves the message was conveyed to them.
I managed an instructor group for 22 years, and recruited people who had done the hard yards, had done dumb things in the bush and learned from them. I wanted course participants to be able learn from the instructor's experience. I had a favourite mantra: Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from poor judgement. One of my instructors, a former Urewera culler, had developed hypothermia as a 20 year old and nearly died, 30 metres from a hut. He would tell the clients on a course the story of his near miss, sitting in the bush, leaning back against a tree, and have the whole group spellbound by the saga. So here was a man who had mana, that you knew you should listen to. Compare him to a bushcraft instructor I saw who took a session on hypothermia by reading aloud the contents of a pamphlet on the subject. Who had the most credibility?
Barry the hunter: if you had stormed off and gone back to the camp...the doors were locked! The course organiser had covered that! He was the legendary Bob Badland, MSC Firearms Programme Manager for ages, and one of the best hunters I ever came across.

Bob Badland now theres a blast from the past - had quite a bit to do with him - but still would not have expected people to camp out overnight on any course I ever ran - just me - to much could go wrong and quickly - but then so many of the groups I took were school age - bit young to chuck in deep end - I used to spend a lot of time getting them to get a fire going and what would burn and what would not

Originally Posted by Barry the hunter

Bob Badland now theres a blast from the past - had quite a bit to do with him - but still would not have expected people to camp out overnight on any course I ever ran - just me - to much could go wrong and quickly - but then so many of the groups I took were school age - bit young to chuck in deep end - I used to spend a lot of time getting them to get a fire going and what would burn and what would not

We used to run a series of 3 weekend courses, spread out over several months: Basic Bushcraft, which involved the "classroom" content, e.g. first aid, food and cooking, pack contents, tents and bivvies, firelighting, navigation, etc, but with plenty of outdoor teaching around the residential camp we used (the best place to teach outdoor skills is outdoors); Intermediate Bushcraft, which was a 2 night 2 day expedition and involved camping out, putting all the first course learnings into practice; then a survival course, also 2 nights 2 days, teaching how to cope if you had not put the other stuff into practice properly. That course started with a night tramp off track into a hut (which did not exist(!), we would simulate a disagreement between instructors on how to reach the hut in thick bush, which resulted in the lead instructor departing in a tantrum, with the remaining group needing to set up bivvies for the night with the polythene sheet they were issued with. This resulted in members feeling disoriented, frustrated and uneasy. The idea was to lower their morale on the first night (just how you would feel when you have had an injury accident or are lost) and then build it up, along with their confidence, over the next 2 days by teaching them that you CAN build a rainproof bivvy, and that you will not die by not eating for 2 days. Each member was given a sealed ration pack the first night, but could not use it without the permission of the instructors. They learned that if you have a hot brew when you feel hungry, it will satisfy your food cravings (we didn't move around much, so energy levels were maintained, and teaching was done at the same spot. They were encouraged to spend a lot of time alone in their bivvies, because loneliness is an issue in a survival situation. Those courses produced well trained, confident trampers and hunters, able to cope with anything the outdoors could throw at them.

Originally Posted by Ranger 888

We used to run a series of 3 weekend courses, spread out over several months: Basic Bushcraft, which involved the "classroom" content, e.g. first aid, food and cooking, pack contents, tents and bivvies, firelighting, navigation, etc, but with plenty of outdoor teaching around the residential camp we used (the best place to teach outdoor skills is outdoors); Intermediate Bushcraft, which was a 2 night 2 day expedition and involved camping out, putting all the first course learnings into practice; then a survival course, also 2 nights 2 days, teaching how to cope if you had not put the other stuff into practice properly. That course started with a night tramp off track into a hut (which did not exist(!), we would simulate a disagreement between instructors on how to reach the hut in thick bush, which resulted in the lead instructor departing in a tantrum, with the remaining group needing to set up bivvies for the night with the polythene sheet they were issued with. This resulted in members feeling disoriented, frustrated and uneasy. The idea was to lower their morale on the first night (just how you would feel when you have had an injury accident or are lost) and then build it up, along with their confidence, over the next 2 days by teaching them that you CAN build a rainproof bivvy, and that you will not die by not eating for 2 days. Each member was given a sealed ration pack the first night, but could not use it without the permission of the instructors. They learned that if you have a hot brew when you feel hungry, it will satisfy your food cravings (we didn't move around much, so energy levels were maintained, and teaching was done at the same spot. They were encouraged to spend a lot of time alone in their bivvies, because loneliness is an issue in a survival situation. Those courses produced well trained, confident trampers and hunters, able to cope with anything the outdoors could throw at them.

Bob Badland - is he still with us - remember him fondly - he got me thru as a Firearm's instructor so many years ago - when I was at Kaitaia he got me to go around a lot of the local Maraes and do safety talks - lot of fun- had many shady types sidle up after the talk hey I have this at home and yup something in the firearm line they were not supposed to have