"Oh sh#t" overnight kit

Reading about some hikers stuck out overnight, and from my own recent experience with a thunderstorm that came in 4 hrs ahead of schedule, I'm rethinking my basic carry kit.

The basic philosophy behind it is I can leave my big main pack at camp or the hut and take a lightweight setup in the 20L attached bag out with me that has enough stuff to deal with weather changes and allows me to spend a rough night if need be.

Thinking on it, the reasons I wouldn't be able to return are:
Lost
Injury
Sudden unsafe conditions (for example in the thunderstorm I mentioned I had to return via a pine plantation, I heard several trees go over while I was walking, if I'd had another option I'd have camped out and waited for the wind to die down.)
Gear failure (ie both my headtorch and my backup failing)
Exhausted to the extent that continuing on for the night would be unsafe.

Due to that I've set the following requirements:
Must allow me to spend the night in freezing or near freezing conditions without use of a fire.
Be able to keep me out of wind and rain
Must be able to be done without use of light.
Be simple to set up, since I assume I'll be not in the best headspace.
Not require me to buy much more stuff, or double up on stuff that would be in my main pack.
Be moderately comfortable. I realise there are a lot of ex army types on here who could survive a snowstorm with just a doc leaf to cover their nuts, but I'm a desk jockey and appreciate some comfort

So far here's where I'm at:
Rain jacket and pants, which are for weather changes.
Fleece midlayer, wool neck gaiter and gloves plus down jacket for sleeping in.
Poncho/lightweight bivvy bag. - I'm torn here, the poncho is way more versatile, but the bag is much easier.
Sleeping mat- this is the single heaviest thing on the list at 600gm but being able to get off the ground and off any stones is maybe worth it?

This all fits into the bag with enough room for water and some food.

What are peoples thoughts? Am I overdoing it?

There is no overdoing it when you actually need it.

I have one of those mylar tube "tents" and a firestarting kit (ferrocerium rod, firelighter, some firestarters and a piece of rubber...)

The tube tent would be sufficient to keep me out of the rain/wind and build a temporary but uncomfortable shelter yet is so light-weight that i can afford to carry it in all situations.
That and a multitool (which i have with me all the time as well)
And they are cheap, thus every backpack has one in it all of the time...

And of course a plb... always... even on day hunts/hikes

I've spent an involuntary night out at about 1,200 masl in early spring once and the learnings from that very cold night were invaluable.

Fire starting gear as per above a must, light fly, plenty of headlamp batteries plus small back-up torch and the warm gear you've suggested. Not sure I'd worry about a sleeping mat. Having a small fire, and knowing that you have light from your headlamp when needed are good for your physical and mental wellbeing. If you're warm, under a fly and have a fire going then it will be a safe and bearable night out.

I'd add swollen rivers to the top of your list of possible reasons/causes to stay out.

Something substantial to eat for breakfast.

Having a meal will help with the business of getting the day back on line - and you out of wherever you are. I keep a Radix breakfast in my bag. *00 calories and no need to cook it, just add 180ml of water

Good stuff, guys! During 40 years as a SAR practitioner, I always asked of people who had spent a night, or part of a night, out unexpectedly: "What did you wish you had with you?" The responses were always similar: shelter, warm clothing, light, food, fluids, means of communication. A lot of outdoors people keep/carry a "survival kit", but don't give a lot of thought to its contents. 16Tontovarish has.

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Originally Posted by Ranger 888

Good stuff, guys! During 40 years as a SAR practitioner, I always asked of people who had spent a night, or part of a night, out unexpectedly: "What did you wish you had with you?" The responses were always similar: shelter, warm clothing, light, food, fluids, means of communication. A lot of outdoors people keep/carry a "survival kit", but don't give a lot of thought to its contents. 16Tontovarish has.

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Having kids has made me way more thoughtful.

Has anyone had any experience with heating under something like a poncho with a tea light? I hear you all with a fire, but I keep thinking that if its pissing down or I had a rolled ankle it wouldn't be practical.

I got some of those little heating pads from the chemist warehouse, plan on trying them out on my next trip. should be interesting to see if a couple of those inside a thermal blanket would make much difference.
https://www.chemistwarehouse.co.nz/s...=hand%20warmer

My 2 cents..

Firstly I believe that spending time in the hills when the weather is really shit house is invaluable. Personally I only ever did this on fly in trips that I had committed to where weather was bad for the first 3 or 4 days and it got too unbearable staying in the run down Bivvys.

You’d be very surprised to learn how it’s possible to tuck up out of the extremes fairly well once you know how.

It takes practice to identify good dry wood and get a decent fire going in wet bush and it’s a great skill to develop. You will know you’ve cracked it when you stay at a campsite or hut and you can find a shit load of good dry wood close to camp that everyone else has walked right past. You will also identify good wood areas as you hunt and if you are in the shit you can go back and grab it.

It always takes more wood to keep a fire going outdoors than you think so if your stuck out for the night and conditions are likely to get very cold - don’t ever be relying on a fire alone to prevent you from hypothermia particularly if your clothing is damp. That’s PLB territory.

In colder months you need to keep a down jacket, gloves, Beenie and spare long sleeve thermal in your pack and be able to keep it dry. If you are planning on an unexpected night out, once you have managed to find a good place to hold up only then do you swap out your damp clothing for the dry layers that you’ve safely stored in your pack.

Plenty of inner tube rubber, BIC lighter and foil blanket in emergency kit. Even if you manage to make it back to a hut late at night after an ‘Incident’ this stuff will help you believe me. Don’t stuff around with matches and flint sticks and know that if your BIC lighter gets wet and won’t work, run the roller up and down a tree a few times until the friction dries out the flint and you good to go. The butane ones with the blue flame that you fill up yourself are better again.

Chuck your firefighting kit inside a large snaplock bag and you can use the bag to build your fire in and keep everything dry until it’s going.

Candle stub with inner tube rubber around it is another handy addition.

I carry a small kit of "Oh sh#t" gear at all times. I carry it in a waterproof bag in a small molle pouch on the front of my TwinNeedle bino harness. That way- if I had to ditch my pack for whatever reason (fall crossing a river or something) then I still have some rudimentary gear to help me out- two forms of fire starter (lighter and stormproof matches, plus I always have another lighter handy inside the bino pouch which I use all the time for checking wind direction when hunting), rubber inner tube, pain killers, celox sachets, basic bandages, mylar blanket, backup knife and a couple of snacks. Plus my PLB is on my person at all times- no good in a pack if you have to ditch it or get injured and can't get the pack off your back to reach it. My PLB also lives on my bino harness.

The above is very much meant as a sh#t hits the fan deal. Anytime I leave camp with just a day pack that will always have my full first aid kit (including more fire sources and inner tube), food that I don't need to cook, a 1L dry bag with spare merino thermals and socks (in case the clothing I'm wearing ends up soaked I've always got something dry to put on), raincoat, lightweight puffer, beanie, gloves and water. Plus head torch and a 1L dry bag with spare 18650 battery, power pack and cord to charge my phone &/or head torch.

Genuinely interested. How confident are you that you could start a fire, even when you have the essentials? To be honest, I struggle when everything is wet. May not be an issue in the open, drier parts of the country, but I don't visit those places very often. Others have said the same including a mate who is ex-army.

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Originally Posted by MB

Genuinely interested. How confident are you that you could start a fire, even when you have the essentials? To be honest, I struggle when everything is wet. May not be an issue in the open, drier parts of the country, but I don't visit those places very often. Others have said the same including a mate who is ex-army.

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Flakey Rimu bark is usually bone dry or dead Kanuka branches that are hung up under other trees and snap nice and crisp are fairly easy to get going without too much trouble. Provided you build it on a platform of dry wood to stop the steam putting it out once the heat builds up.

Being warm will ensure you see the sun rise next morning. A fire may help, but to be honest, a half dozen army surplus store hexamine tabs is far, far better than any firestarter. My luck, it's pissing leopards and hyenas, and there is no dry fuel. A chocolate bar or 3 of the small Whittakers bars ( or your treat of choice) is a huge morale boost, and has lots of fast acting calories to help you warm up. Doesn't have to be chocolate - I'm quite partial to dried mango, or fruit leather. The oldest I've ever been was on a military exercise. The South African army didn't have great cold weather kit, and we were sleeping underneath a truck. We had no sleeping mat, just a nylon groundskeeper to keep you dry. Never again. A sleeping mat isn't a luxury in extreme conditions. IIRC it hit -7ºC that night and at one point, I though I might break something I was shivering so hard. I bought a thin foam sleeping mat (this was 1989, before anything remotely flash was available), cut it to fit inside my 2 season army sleeping bag, and never looked back.

Great to see some resilience around the prospect of toughing it out for a night.
Further to the below, it’s worth while reinforcing having a light source. Having undertaken a few airborne searches at night I cannot stress enough how important a light source is if a night time search ends up being called. Even a small light or signal fire will likely make a search into simple pick up for an experienced crew on goggles.

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Originally Posted by Ranger 888

Good stuff, guys! During 40 years as a SAR practitioner, I always asked of people who had spent a night, or part of a night, out unexpectedly: "What did you wish you had with you?" The responses were always similar: shelter, warm clothing, light, food, fluids, means of communication. A lot of outdoors people keep/carry a "survival kit", but don't give a lot of thought to its contents. 16Tontovarish has.

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A normal overnighter will see me carrying my main pack wherever I go and camp when I'm done hunting for the day. This way I have all my gear on me at all times.
If I set up a base camp I will just dump a few things but still take the pack and a few basics.
I pack differently for each trip and what goes in is based on the weather and the location.
Having had hyperthermia 3 times in the past you learn a few things. A few items that have and or could of saved my arse were as follows:

-pack liners are compulsory! Keep your gear dry and help float your pack in a river crossing
- always carry a stove and food. A warm feed helps a lot when cold and on one trip when hyperthermia was evident I used a couple of dehy meals once heated to stuff down my jacket......life savers!
-The ability to pull out warm dry clothes with a wind/rainbreaker is a must. Strip off wet cloths first.
- a light weight fly is my norm for overnights so pretty easy to leave in the pack
-for a sleeping mat I leave one of the cheap light weight car front window shades in my pack, $5 from miter 10. Good to sit on when glassing or having lunch and can sleep on with the addition of dead tussock leaf.
-EPIRP lives in the pack too

Probably one of the biggest things we've learned is the self discipline of... "if it looks dodgy, go the long way around". This applies even more so toward the end of the day when fatigued. It's those micro decisions that often lead to dumb ones.

I would add a silky saw to that list and small blowtorch kind of lighter,tiny but hot enough to get most wood burning.

And cable ties..

Some awesome tips there guys, thanks for the info....I carry some small pieces of 'fatwood' great fire starter and a couple of plastic tent pegs

I've been contemplating getting a Jerven bag https://jerven.shop/collections/jervenbag. Not only for an emergency night out but for glassing from your favorite spot waiting for last light.
Couple it with some hand warmers and you'd be toasty as https://www.whitbyandco.co.uk/produc...by-hand-warmer

Spent an unexpected night in the bush a few years back luckily for me I had a large thick black bin bag from work in the bottom of my backpack
Kept me dry on a cold and rainy night, after that experience I went out and bought a sol emergency bivvy it weighs nowt and could make all the difference
It’s the escape bivvy edit to add

I've spent two unpleasant unscheduled nights in the hill in my hunting career

I won't tell you what to carry but I you can learn from my experiences

1- Westland mid winter with a friend we got our time management wrong on the way to a very remote and rarely visited hut.
The track was poorly marked and completely overgrown. So we were way over the track time signage and still hours short of the hut.
We made the call while it was just still light to try and bivvy up and sit it out.
In anticipation of that I had noted a small dry area under a very large rimu tree a while earlier.
We back tracked and made the best of the night under emergency blankets.
A fire was simply not an option as it was deepest darkest wettest Westland bush.

Lots of learning in this one. Some time later I talked to an older gent who used to possum there and he said it was an easy 5 hour walk in the day.
And that visibility in the bush in those days was 100m due to high possum and deer numbers

2- South Westland mid winter tahr hunting. Had a friend from Germany with me. We saw a very good bull tahr late afternoon and got underneath it on the hill expecting him to descend pre darkness.
We were aware that we wouldn't be able to safely get back to out main camp if we stayed to get the shot.
So it was a decision we made and the consequences were entirely of our making.
The bull came down to us very very late and Josef missed it with 5 shots from his custom made 300 Magnum, which was heartbreaking ! ( custom rifle built by one of Germany's best gunsmiths and supposedly sighted in and good to go. But not known to me at the time of shooting ) .
We back tracked to a rough rock bivvy above a glacier and at very high altitude.
Josef who was very well insulated seemed to have a fairly comfortable nights sleep in all his cloths and a survival blanket.
I had easily the most unpleasant night of my life despite having plenty of layers on, a tussock bed, a little overhead shelter, enough food and drink.
The kestrel told me it was -9 degrees C
We were well above any fuel for a fire

Lots of learning here also.
Always validate rifles that are someone else's on my personal range before a trip like this ( the pain of the cold would have been lessened by the satisfaction of a trophy tahr in the bivvy with us )
I started carrying a very light summer down sleeping bag with me on those mid winter trips just for a similar situation.
We started shooting bulls late in the day and recovering the following day.
We started having a staging point at major fords, the bottom of major climbs or at the packrafts as a fall back well supplied location if things got messy

I have been back and stayed in the rock bivvy intentionally and it was still pretty unpleasant mid winter even with lots of gear.

So during your days hunt take a note of any interesting features that naturally created shelter.
Mark it in your GPS.
Put it in the nearest hut book.
Someone might just use it one day.
Take a note of anywhere unusually dry you pass through in a wet forest, you might just need it.
Always think about a plan B for if things do go wrong

Attachment 255529

Pack something warm.

A long haired dog might have been better, but you do what you can with what you have. At least it didn't snow.

I’ve had the odd shit night in the bush, unprepared.

One time Got stuck up the west coast, waitaha river, overnight, in the early 90s. Hadn’t been hunting South Island much, 1st or second west coast trip.
We had planned to be up there a few days.
The tiny creeks along the track began to flood mid afternoon and were waist high on the way in. Got a bit caught out by that, they came up fast. No checking forecasts whoops.
pre plb and pre Windy app etc, no led headlights, no gps, walking back at night not an option. Probably had a crappy torch or bike light.
We had a map might as well have been from outer space though (was a travel atlas book) and couldn’t find the hut and the main river was flooding hard so couldn’t get across the river, getting dark.
Wasn’t on to it, to look for dry spots , but the bush was sopping wet. Got real dark and heavy, heavy rain.
We had no tent so built a Manuka shelter. Our good down sleeping bags went on the ground. They ended up soaked and a were only few mm thick when wet. A long night but had swanndri etc so wasn’t super cold luckily, but still cold from the wet. With four of us it was a bit of a laugh anyway. A bit of huddling during the night, lucky I had my girlfriend with me, my other two mates got cosy, but not brokeback style. But Very happy to see sunrise. It fined up and the creeks suddenly dropped, the side creeks down from knee/waist high to a trickle under your boot. The main river was probably still flooding and every single thing was soaked through so we bailed quick as we could and hightailed to the Mahinapua Hotel for pies and beer.

Lessons learned taking into account the new gear available easily now:
A lightweight fly would have kept us dry, I don’t tend to rely on huts anymore and pack a lightweight 600g Durston tent, this gets you on to better spots anyway.
Headlights are gold take two lightweight ones. Eg nu25s.
for a reserve warm non bush bash stationary jacket, I pack an enlightened equipment synthetic puffy which is a bit less than 300g. Better than down in the wet.
Even a section of a cheap thin foldy mat would have been a bonus, I carry one now for sitting glassing, cooking at night etc, and put under my blow up mattress as back up.

When I flew “ bush “ in Alaska.. we were REQUIRED to have a survival kit…., much the same as what is being relayed in some of these posts… small pack weighing about 10-15 kilo…. Always had some firearm and ammo of sorts ,most had a break-down 410 shotgin/.22 arrangement,cracker litte gun…..flares,etc….

Might seem a little extreme,but there is a fine line sometimes between surviving and not… our limitations (personal) are only really ever tested when we are in the shit ,and are able to manage to get out of it to tell the story….

Some bloody great advice on this thread

Yep bet the dog tried to push you off the jacket at night! 🤣

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Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

Attachment 255529

Pack something warm.

A long haired dog might have been better, but you do what you can with what you have. At least it didn't snow.

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Originally Posted by MB

Genuinely interested. How confident are you that you could start a fire, even when you have the essentials? To be honest, I struggle when everything is wet. May not be an issue in the open, drier parts of the country, but I don't visit those places very often. Others have said the same including a mate who is ex-army.

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This is a skill/art form that we simply don't practise enough anymore. I have spent a couple or three unexpected nights out,funnily enough two were in same area a year of two apart. First we lost track in dark so simply slept where we were,not bad or cold but really dry,was happy to find swampy patch for drink next morning.we awoke and were literally still on track. The other night in same spot,three of us all young,I was most experienced.we had ditched tent n took fly only.it snowed.we on bushline.i got fire going had meal.we made nest in under trees with fly over top.my mates got into sleeping bags.i took my wet swannie off and got cold while waiting to crawl into bed...one of the coldest I can remember being. If had got straight into sleeping bag I would've been still warm. Two other nights out no drama.

South opuha,shitty paper map pre GPS days.shot two young that,the first I had ever seen.we dropped down to where we thought hut should be just on dark.got to creek.oh shit no hut,now what? Turned around,over hanging Rock made bit of a cave,bit of driftwood so we got fire going in cave and spent night in relative comfort.i gave my swannie to skinny mate.

Attachment 255571 Easter 1993 my photo album tells me,shikes that makes me feel old.not ten foot tall n bullet proof anymore.

Rolled an ankle recently. On day 5 of a 5 day trip in high country, luckily only a short distance from a track. Made me think though, I could walk/grovel on it for about 20 mins before it got too sore, would have been interesting if a day earlier on my own in the tussock. Had a PLB and inreach, bt they don't help much with hypothermia if a night out at 1100m was the outcome. Some great advice and stories on here, the key one being to have the emergency gear with you when the emergency happens.....

When I was a NZ Mountain Safety Council bushcraft instructor, had to attend a 2 day "Instructor Development" course, based at an outdoor education centre. It was raining, and after a roast dinner on Saturday evening, the 18 instructors were tasked to meet in the main lounge with our "survival kits". The facilitator asked the group if anybody had ever had to use their survival kit. Only 2 of us had (we were both hunters). The facilitator said: "So you all discuss survival kits on the courses you run, but apart from the 2 hunters, none of you have actually put the kit to the test? Right, follow me, and bring your kits with you". He led the group outside and into the adjoining bush, and selected a sleeping position for each of us, about 50 metres apart. After informing us that all doors in the centre would now be locked, he said he would see us for breakfast. I had a comfortable night, having taken my "in the shit" hunting daypack as my survival kit, as had the other hunter. At breakfast, when we were asked how many people would now modify their survival kit, 16 hands went up. It was an innovative teaching method, had inherent controls, and very effective. It wasn't cold overnight, but most people were very uncomfortable.

there was a long thread on this subject a while back went on quite a bit so look it up if you want more info

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Originally Posted by Snoppernator

Yep bet the dog tried to push you off the jacket at night! ��

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The dog ended up inside the jacket with me. I can't remember being colder. The trick is to start preparing for a night out well before nightfall. Going to sleep cold and tired is much worse than just cold.

A good thread - a mix of uncomfortable nights vs bordering on survival. It’s the knowledge, judgment, prep and key items that changes from warm comfy situation to a debacle. Good to read about some other debacles not just my own. Ha.

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Originally Posted by Ross Nolan

The dog ended up inside the jacket with me. I can't remember being colder. The trick is to start preparing for a night out well before nightfall. Going to sleep cold and tired is much worse than just cold.

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That's the thing. It can take a surprising amount of time to make shelter and gather enough firewood for the night and generally setting your self up. Your lizard brain is trying to convince you that you get back to the camp/car/hut before nightfall when really you should be listening to your Homo Sapien brain and sorting yourself out while it's light

Add rectangle of closed cell foam mat cut to fit inside your daypack, weighs a fraction and good for keeping your arse of the ground, makes a big difference when its cold if you don't have a full size mat. And I've noticed a good number of the mylar blankets can be small, but Macpac (among others) sell the Mylar "emergency" bags, definitely big enough for you (and maybe a really good mate at a push!) to climb into, and are only a few grams more. Their blankets are also a decent size, but I think I'd still take a bag...

Also, the Real Meals "bacon mash" freeze dried meal still tastes good made up cold!

Lot of people talking about a back up torch. Simple, lightweight and small....get a new battery every now and then (or use the one in your rifle?)
Attachment 255673

My backup torch.

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/TOL...ini-Keychain-F

https://i.ibb.co/vcHtq5N/images.jpg

Who ever got lost??? Just a bit geographically challenged..I always carry a day pack no matter how short the trip away from camp/base, map, compass, plb, water and some snaks...i.e. packet of dried apricots, bars...back in the day once got caught where I should not been, woollen clothes from longjohns up, woolen swandri, packet of Port Royal, blue zig-zag papers, lighter and w/proof matches, a good log, a freezing cold night, bloody damp uncomfortable but the swanny conquers all...don't forget yet your HAT

A wee story re wet wood. A couple of cobbers and I did a very ambitious traverse in Fiordland in the early 80s. I recall our loads averaged 30 kgs with 14 days food, a mountain radio and I think a rifle each . . . We might have shared two between us though. Relatively light loads for the day due to processing a lot of our own dehy food.

Anyhoo on the first "serious" day we were going downhill and it started to rain lightly. Was quite nice for a couple of hours then it changed up to a heavy very cold rain. We crossed a big river and shortly after noticed we were bloody cold and the decision was made to stop and camp.

What we didn't realize was just how hypothermia we all were, our judgment was very weak. I was to light the fire while the other two got the tent up. It was very wet, in the wet bit of Fiordland and I couldn't seem to find any dry wood, even with the half axe we had. After a bit I happened to check my watch and somehow realized we'd been putting up a tent and lighting a fire for TWO hours - we were very hypothermia. Once one of realized I was able to get another of the party 'on track' and the tent was soon up with the coldest guy in his bag.

Within a few more minutes with a clear head I found a big overhanging tree with plenty of dry stuff and a big fire was going within 10 minutes with a bit of bike rubber we always carried in those days.

A big part of good bushmanship is observing as you go, and if you keep an eye out for burnable wood you'll be surprised how much there is even in wet country . . . .

My PLB lives on my belt along with my hunting knife and its always the last thing I take off in camp and the first thing I put on when packing to leave.