PLB and GPS or just an inReach?

As on another thread, my GPS62s seems to have gone to the basecamp in the sky, fades out and dies when turning on, which seems like a familiar analogy.... My PLB battery expired in Feb, although it still tests OK, it seems that I could win a Darwin award if I knowingly rely on an expired battery for the PLB function...

So - should I - :

1/ replace the PLB battery and get a new GPS, - if so which one?

2/ Forget the PLB and just get an inReach Explorer?

The context is a few multi day trips a year in places with no cell coverage.

Thanks.

or 3/ replace the PLB battery and get an inreach explorer. PLB's are better for rescuers to find you, but the inreach lets you tell them what the issue is so they know how urgently they need to get to you.

Or forget the Inreach explorer and get the new Garmin with Inreach as its now running Garmin maps instead of the crappy Delorne maps, is touch screen too so bigger screen more like a phone.

Be aware though it took 20 mins to send a text from one of the red Inreach's at the weekend, they are not instant and can take simply ages to send and receive.

agree, what @Cigar said.

This garmin?

https://www.garmin.com/en-NZ/p/561269#overview

Its about 8 years old so well out of warranty....

To the OP, PLBs and satellite communicators are very different devices.
inReach is a great bit of kit but having flown a few rescues, I do not recommend relying on an inReach as a primary means of SOS.

Thanks Moutere. So your advice is that inReach is cool for GPS, messaging, weather, and as a backup for emergencies. But not to give up the specialist PLB using 406 frequency? Is that because of the superior infrastructure of the 406, or the device quality and durability or both?
Thanks.

Yeah I would recommend the PLB as well. 406MHz is good and they also have a 102ishMHz for narrowing down the search area even more.
Good to have a system where the battery is solely used for emergencies and not run down with texting etc...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Northkiwi

Thanks Moutere. So your advice is that inReach is cool for GPS, messaging, weather, and as a backup for emergencies. But not to give up the specialist PLB using 406 frequency? Is that because of the superior infrastructure of the 406, or the device quality and durability or both?
Thanks.

---

Sorry, just lost a long winded response into the cyber ether. In short, yes you are correct. PLBs are part of the native and seamless 406 alert system. RCC is well resourced and very good at what they do. It is a superior and more robust emergency alert system for a variety of reasons.
Having some insight into the nature of the emergency via a satellite message is great, however it does not alter the priority or equipment configuration for emergency response.
Aircraft are dispatched and configured for more or less for any eventuality once on scene.

Here is an overview of the Becker used to track the VHF signal from a beacon.
Don’t underestimate how hard it can be to spot people in the wilderness or at sea with a single Lat/Long.

Turn on the beacon and then leave it on until someone is standing next to you.
Recently had a bloke wrap up the antenna and put the beacon in his pocket as soon as the helicopter flew overhead the valley. Probably added 10 minutes to dialling in their exact position on the steep slope under a full canopy. Had to be directly overhead a tiny gap in the trees to pick up the signal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r41jA33Rec8

Do strobes help much?

Yes, but any light source can help looking up from the shadows of a canopy even in daylight.
At night using NVGs most light sources can be seen up to multiple tens of miles.
Heliographs have a similar range in the right conditions during daytime.
For example, you can see the location of the Maui A Platform flare quite clearly at night with a little bit of height from Tasman Bay through NVGs.

I really don't understand why modern PLBs don't broadcast their position data on low power transmitter in the same way ships do with AIS.
Helicopters with suitable recievers could recieve the signal on a moving map and essentially fly to the user directly.

A lot of vessels now give their crews water activated AIS beacons so if they, god forbid, fall overboard a mark pops up on their nav equipment as soon as its recieved by onboard reciever so they can find said person quickly

A PLB can also be gradually homed by de-tuning 121.5 on any VHF radio in a pinch which is some added, if basic but slow redundancy.
Googling AIS, I take it has the same function as an aircraft transponder being interrogated by TCAS in lager aircraft or by controllers looking after airspace.
I’m guessing the payload on a ship for receiving equipment is infinite in comparison to small aircraft?
Also, would AIS be man portable for land based SAR groups.
Dunno, I’m not familiar with it.

Seems a logical thing to enhance an EPIRBs functionality at sea. Maybe the signal is too hungry on power to make the 24 hours for a PLB or 48 hours for an EPIRB.
I also think they’re already too expensive to buy and replace the batteries on, I can’t imagine added complexity would help with unit price.

I got a free one with some farm stuff the other day :) winning :thumbsup: have for the past couple years only carried my Spot X and Now Garmin Alpha 200i because one unit I can message, sos, gps, and track dog but PLB be good to carry also and have on the boat. Have had a heli rescue after setting off SOS on Spot unit a few years back. Worked perfect at the time but can’t say that they would in all situations.
Attachment 193774

By in large most inReach pickups go with out any issue, but occasionally the don’t… the worst one I’ve been privy to were co ordinates either generated or provided that were initially 2.2km out. The couples head torches were what located them over a kilometre from a revised position.
Have also seen situations of family being sent messages lacking context or missed scheds and aircraft being prematurely tasked to individuals not requiring help.

Great discussion, thanks.

Ive got a wee plb...about 3" square pouch,lives in day bag...use a gps...marks my points of interest and reinforces my whereabouts and CONFIRMS location on map....MOST people carry cellphones in this modern age....I just upgraded so have topo maps on hand...and if have reception I can also get my location and block boundaries..the PLB is a panic button..the GPS navigation aid....the phone is navigation aid and comms if have reception...I dont see a need for anything else.
heck we go bush to get away from it all......and take half of it with us if still in comms with home.

I see some of the PLB brands advertise that they can replace batteries for $200. Anyone know who might do battery replacements and what the warranty would be.?

There’s plenty of videos on YouTube on replacing the batteries yourself if you were willing to give it a go. Granted some may say “you’re putting your life peril!” Etc but if you’re confident it’s probably better than putting your life in the hands of some Wally you don’t know who’s going to do the exact same thing with the exact same batteries....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Micky Duck

Ive got a wee plb...about 3" square pouch,lives in day bag...use a gps...marks my points of interest and reinforces my whereabouts and CONFIRMS location on map....MOST people carry cellphones in this modern age....I just upgraded so have topo maps on hand...and if have reception I can also get my location and block boundaries..the PLB is a panic button..the GPS navigation aid....the phone is navigation aid and comms if have reception...I dont see a need for anything else.
heck we go bush to get away from it all......and take half of it with us if still in comms with home.

---

I use my cellphone + NZ Topo50 app for all my navigation now. You do not need cellphone reception to establish you position or track. My phone is in Flight Mode to save battery life most of the time.

Not very keen on knowing exactly where I am with a broken leg, and no cell reception though.... Spent the first 20 years of my hunting life with just a compass, but luckily, with a few more years and kg under the belt, comes a bit more ability to fund things that offset the risks. inReach - a good multi-purpose option by the sound of it, but if you really really need a rescue - then at that moment you would want to be pulling out a purpose built specialised bit of kit (PLB) is the logic I'm hearing from the forum gurus.

I use NZTopo on my phone for gps location. Also have an inreach mini. And a plb.
If I had to leave one of these behind, I'd take the plb first, then my cellphone and leave the inreach behind.
If you need lifted out, then you need lifted out.
Inreach is for sure handy for keeping in touch with home.
The only exception I could see for an emergency evacuation might be when something bad has happened at home and somebody needs to contact you.

Just to be a bit more sitting on the fence, the inreach mini is small and weighs hardly anything. And I already have a phone and NZTopo is a handful of dollars for IMO as good a gps tool as any dedicated gps unit I've ever had. And the plb is non-negotiable anyway. The only thing with the inreach (and other similar tools), is an annual subscription fee whether you use it or not. I guess for very low usage, renting a unit would be the answer if you need back country comms.

Good call Ned about the benefit of home being able to contact you. That is a substantial factor I hadn't thought about.

Wouldn’t go out without my PLB. Always have it on my person too so it’s readily accessible. Not much good if it’s in your pack & a fall/slip means you can’t get to it. Used to use a Garmin Rino for nav but passed that on having found NZTopo50 just as accurate for nav but a lot more user friendly. An InReach mini is on my list of gear I’d like to get & will pick one up sometime in the near future- be nice reassurance for the better half to know I’m safe, but she always gets a detailed rundown of my plan- intended area, etas etc before I go anywhere. But the PLB is a must.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ned

I use NZTopo on my phone for gps location. Also have an inreach mini. And a plb.
If I had to leave one of these behind, I'd take the plb first, then my cellphone and leave the inreach behind.
If you need lifted out, then you need lifted out.
Inreach is for sure handy for keeping in touch with home.
The only exception I could see for an emergency evacuation might be when something bad has happened at home and somebody needs to contact you.

Just to be a bit more sitting on the fence, the inreach mini is small and weighs hardly anything. And I already have a phone and NZTopo is a handful of dollars for IMO as good a gps tool as any dedicated gps unit I've ever had. And the plb is non-negotiable anyway. The only thing with the inreach (and other similar tools), is an annual subscription fee whether you use it or not. I guess for very low usage, renting a unit would be the answer if you need back country comms.

---

They now have a yearly plan for low users but its still $300 a year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Northkiwi

Good call Ned about the benefit of home being able to contact you. That is a substantial factor I hadn't thought about.

---

Have you decided what you think you will get yet?

I've found that the magnetic bearing on topo50 to be a bit out, even accounting for magnetic deviation. I've taken the bearing to a land mark on my phone and checked it with a compass and it was a good 20 degrees out.
Any suggestions?

ship it to @gonetropo for a look. he fixed my gps for a very reasonable price!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Russian 22.

ship it to @gonetropo for a look. he fixed my gps for a very reasonable price!

---

cheers. was that the one with the corrosion?
honestly i lose track of the things i repair.
i am going to be in and out of hospital etc a few times soon so i cant promise a quick turnover though i will try my best

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imaca

I've found that the magnetic bearing on topo50 to be a bit out, even accounting for magnetic deviation. I've taken the bearing to a land mark on my phone and checked it with a compass and it was a good 20 degrees out.
Any suggestions?

---

20 degrees is just about what the difference is between magnetic north and true north. Your compass will definitely be pointing at magnetic north, I bet your phone is doing true north

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mr300WSM

Have you decided what you think you will get yet?

---

At this point I’m thinking replace the PLB battery as long as it comes with a warranty. And then get a new GPS maybe the 66 that has inreach functions but is primarily a gps, then I can choose whether to pay for and enable the inreach functions by trip.

Interesting discussions, some sensible dudes on here.

If you get the proper authorised person to change the battery, you should get another 7 years of battery life out of it ( unless you have the very old 5 year battery life one).

Inreach txting is an awesome feature to have and I use it a lot. Can’t comment on the SOS yet.
Smartphone as GPS is the beesnees. $5 cost for the likes of MapToasters (iOS) and pretty accurate!

Just thinking about things, how likely is it that Starlink and other satellite based options will make inReach and sat phones redundant within a year or two? Probably won't change my decision, but just thinking about it. Essentially that is what inReach is, just an expensive way of doing it if it pans out like Elon Musk says it will.....

Hope this isn't too much of a thread-jack, but has anyone used the Zoleo sat communicator that Ol' Skippers Mate sells? They look good, are more affordable than anything Garmin, and work with the phone you will most likely have with you anyway, so keen to hear experiences as an alternative to an InReach.

I have an old Gen3 Spot Tracker, and the Zoleo subscription looks to be about the same as Spot, but obvs you are able to communicate via a phone app with Zoleo. Plan for me (when funds allow) is a PLB + Zoleo/phone... in addition to map and compass.

https://skippersmate.co.nz/zoleo-nz-...-communicator/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cigar

20 degrees is just about what the difference is between magnetic north and true north. Your compass will definitely be pointing at magnetic north, I bet your phone is doing true north

---

I think you are correct. With the NZ Topo50 app (and probably most others) you can select between magnetic or true north.

sitting up on ridge last night I pinged my gps so can confirm location on google earth when got home...picked up cellphone and just had to ring RUMPY as had 5 game animals within 250 yards of me ,and evening was rather nice...... the plb sat in daybag but could well have been used later when stepped in hole and smashed shin of other leg into old sticks..... had it been sharp rock instead of rotting wood it could well have broken my leg.

And if ya day pack was away from you when you stepped in the hole and broke ya leg, you might still be there unless you could crawl back to your bag.