I hear Quik clot can cause burns especially when applied in powder form and can cause burns to people around the paitent including the patient.
Celox seems better but you get less?
Are any of you medical types in the know?
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I hear Quik clot can cause burns especially when applied in powder form and can cause burns to people around the paitent including the patient.
Celox seems better but you get less?
Are any of you medical types in the know?
what do you want it for? I have quick clot for my work truck.I know the yanks love celox in the military.
Any major trauma, Im not so keen on the secondary burns side of things.
I'd rather have less than none - the less also means less weight and less space taken up.Quote:
Originally Posted by savageshooter
A quick google shows the websites to be out of stock of both. Where do you get it and is it something I should have in my kit?
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Only for when your bleeding
Simple thing like your lisence and a bandage will do.the same.job if ou got into the shit.
Open up the wound an poor ice cold water on it, that'll take your mind of the bleeding for a while
Alot of nato uses celox, after doing osme reading quikclot has been updated and doesnt cause burns any more.
Im looking at bring in some trauma kits and sports sponges
Tampons are great for filling wounds especially exit wounds ( Stops woman bleeding out...), Israeli compression bandage is the best type I've used it really cranks the pressure on, if your thinking gunshot wounds you may like to look into gear for sucking chest wounds (collapsed lung) such as stick on flutter valve or ways to improvise. and oral or nasal airways they really are priceless for keeping an airway open.....When thinking Trauma think bleeding out and stop breathing
I carry (especially in the roar) a couple tampons, a Israeli compression bandage, couple nasal airways, flutter valve thing and a Tourniquet. (Torurniquet only if you cant stop the artery bleeding out with all the other stuff been used already)
Hi all.
Jono here from PHEC Enterprises here in NZ.
My backgtound is nursing and my company was the first in NZ to sponsor Quikclot here back in 2008.
The burns mentioned earlier were severe (often 2nd to 3rd degree, partial and full thickness). This side effect was from the 1st generation loose granule version as seen on the movie "shooter" staring Mark Wahlberg. The packeys of bagged zeolite granules are slightly hydrated to lower the "exothermic" (heat reaction) and doesn't get much warmer than around 40 degrees c. When I was in the process of registering the product here with the Ministry of Health this was one of the things I wantef to ensure was dealt with before bringing any product here.
In regard to celox vs quikclot; Quikclot products (2nd gen) are zeolite granules (linde type 5a for those that want to know) similar to kitty litter basically, that has had calcium added and the 3rd generation is kaolin based product (an inert clay). Celox on the other hand is a protein based product (chitosan) that is digestible by the human body, for this reason I would encourage the use of Celox (and yes that might seem a little odd being the sponsor and importer of Quikclot) but wound cleaning isn't quite as critical as with the zeolite and kaolin from Quikclot.
As another note; the zeolite went from loose granules for two reasons: 1 was partly due to the granule to blood ratio got too high adding to the heat reaction as people just poured whole packets into the wound so bagging became a measured dose, 2nd. It became apparent applying quikclot to verticle wounds or high wind conditions meant a large amount of product didn't get where it was needed. As you probably know when the products is averaging $25-30 for 25g it makes an expensive excerise exorbitant.
I have plenty of research articles on quikclot and the hemostatic (blood clotting) agents if anyone is interested.
Anything else you would like to know, give me a bell.
Are we going to war?
Yes. The NZDF is a bit low on inventory so they are going to join in and do the usual trick of permanently borrowing some gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
I got my Celox and Islreali Bandages for work from here. Buy Israeli Bandages and More
Buy in bulk its much cheaper. now ALL our first aid kits are kitted with the stuff.
Israeli Emergency Bandages - Israelifirstaid.com
Celox Home Pack of 10 - Israelifirstaid.com
Very cool. Thanks for that.
Maybe one of you chaps might like to follow me around during the roar as my sort of personal medic? Just don't go sticking a sanitary device into me without getting my permission first though. The mind boggles. I could die of toxic shock (google it).
:PQuote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
If I carried around all the stuff that I "might" need in case of emergency, I wouldn't be able to walk because of the weight.
As I recently read somewhere - "Don't carry around your fears".
Kiwis are pretty good improvisers. A knife and your shirt will make a pretty good compression bandage.
I have no intention of walking through the bush prepared for every contingency.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussock
I carry on my belt adequate stuff for the most likely events. If I carted around a remedy for all of the least likely events I would, as I said, be loaded up like a medic.
I am though curious about this stuff that stops bleeding. But tampons, and plugging great gaping holes is a bridge too far.
If I end up shirtless I will put my jacket on (which I always carry), or use my survival bag (which I always carry). If the injury is life threatening, I will activate my PLB (which I always carry) while my shirt stops the bleeding. These are thing I have thought about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussock
Another saying I heard recently is that "a heavy pack is made up of a lot of light things". Too true.
The best way to stop bleeding is not to let it start in the first place. I know "accidents" happen, but I use the outdoor in a way that minimises the risk of a serious accident. I know my limitations and stay within them. If I do have a serious accident hopefully I have the means to survive it without having to carry around a heap of "just in case" crap which I will never use. If I don't you can say "I told you so".
PS. My "luck" (I like to think of it as good management) has been pretty good for the last 35 years.
Bandages make pretty crappy shirts too.
And as I implied above, I think it is more than just luck that has kept me unharmed in the outdoors for the last 35 years.
I've had the Isreali bandage and celox sachet in my PLB pouch on my knife belt for about 2 years new. Its vac packed so is small and compact, don't even know its there.
I haven't had to use it and probably won't ever need the stuff, but if its not in the way then why not take it.
Its that one time that you need it, maybe on someone else that you'll be glad you did.
I try to make sure my hunting partners have the stuff to (have given it to them). One day I might be out cold so if I can help them help me its a double win.
Hope I never have to do this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rl2ieZzRtvo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNcTM1tHCXk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_memNCN0IY
Sorry sir going to disagree with you about that. One tampon is designed to hold about 30mls of blood which is bugger all and while it works for the fairer of the species you would do just as well with a rolled up bandage stuffed in there. Gear for sucking chest wounds is the eftpos card and duck tape. I am curious do you hunt with people who know how insert a nasopharyngeal airway?Quote:
Originally Posted by karl200
And I would advocate for carrying Celox, get the bandage form otherwise it's like pouring icing sugar in the wind.
Hey just so you are aware there are potential side effects to using Celox and while it does save a life by stopping bleeding, there is no doubt there, you may also like to know it increases your chances of clots being formed and going for a very merry wander round your body.
Clot hits the brain, stroke. clot hits the heart, heart attack. clot hits the lung embolism....don't stop the bleeding you die. rock and a hard place.
I might just stay at home and hunt from my computer...hang on not moving enough I might get a clot.
Life to short really. Celox, light, portable and works. Ah bugger it I just happen to have it in my kit.
You may also like to purchase from these wonderful people
Product Search : Emergency Care, Training and Rescue
Just type celox and go for the z fold bandage or the applicator.
@Willie
How effective is Celox if the patient is on heart drugs such as Wafarine (sp)
It laughs in the face of blood thinners Pengy!Quote:
Originally Posted by Pengy
As a general day hunter can someone give me an idea of what first aid is ideal to carry? I have a full kit in my car but never take any in the bush
enough to stop the leaking and ease the pain. Anyhting else you can ususally walk out and back to the car kit.Quote:
Originally Posted by matto1234
I use a 250gr marmite container,
1 bandage,
few plasters, assorted size.
couple wound pads 3" square
2 needles, few ear buds, tooth picks.
painkillers and anthismine tablets, about a dozen in total.
part tube of antiseptic cream,
small roll of medical tape.
sealed with insulation tape.
have been thinking of adding a little pk of burn gel,
and getting six -10 stronger painkillers,
this kit is in my belt bag. been used many times,
I strongly disagree, I'd rather a filthy shirt be used to plug a wound than to let them bleed out because a clean wound packer wasn't available, wounds can be cleaned and antibiotics administered at a later time, providing they still have blood flowing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mauser308
My kit has a CAT tourniquet, izzie, packer and an airway tube, I want to get some clotter, especially for areas where pressure cant be applied effectively.
Number 1. Stop the bleeding.
Depending how big and where the hole is you can bleed out in minutes. Be agressive and get in there to stop the blood loss (literally GET IN THERE if you have to and plug it).... yes they'll scream but atleast theyre alive.
A sterile hole on a dead person is pointless. Like Savage1 said you can deal with infection later in hospital, but also don't be an idiot and get too much dirt and crap in the hole.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBWWleBSW6A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po2iLU4Ur9w
good basic stuff How to Treat A Gunshot Wound: Assessment, Treatment And Considerations