Why, are you not hearing what you want to hear? Pretty queer statement
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Why, are you not hearing what you want to hear? Pretty queer statement
Same here. Our dogs will go all day and go spastic if they dont get a real long work out each week.Love the breed. Unbelievable temperament. Not a purist because they are hunting dogs.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee
Te Rei, what do you have to compare them to?
There is no right or wrong answer only ones views and opinions and experiences which we are hearing which are interesting and evolve discussion amongst us allQuote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
just the "us purist working lines people" made me chuckle
you to are in the ngati purist
I've got so much to reply to that... all of it a mixture of rant and drivel :sick: No one cares. Hows your bitch?
I had an email from the breeder updating me on vets jabs and alike and all going well -6 months we will see her here and breed the first litter when she is around 2 years old -she is currently 7 months from memory.The first litter will be to John Pilchers dog which Woody was the sire -looking forward to it for sure --how about your new pup?
All good so far, waiting for rabies titre test at 6 months. Phil Ruge speaks highly of John Pilchers Woody son, reckons he is a machine
Yeah, any pointer ever bred, even three legged ones will be considered "hard going" in comparison to the average Lab for instance... stay with me... unfair comparison I know... pointers are a hard running breed this includes the slowest to the fastest... as a breed compared to other breeds... To ascertain if you have a hard going dog of your chosen breed at some point it is imperative to run them against and with another dog of known quantity to know if it really is going as hard as you think, finding as fast as you think, etc. This was one of Leon's golden rules. He used the analogy that every racehorse looks fast galloping on it's own... all of these horses look fast galloping on their own... all of them are a class above the norm... one of them is possibly the greatest thoroughbred of modern day history, but you only know it because the others are there. If the all galloped individually they would all look like extremely fast horses.... one is supremely faster than the others... but only by comparison.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJn2VWMtEio
I thought hunters with working lines were the purists? :pacman:
Thing is Ruff, there are some real plodders out there. Calling her hard going was in comparison to our trials stuff. And it is unwise to compare pointers to pointers in NZ, you have to compare NZ pointers to NZ setters as the setters here are of a better quality in my opinion. As you say, they all look great by themselves
Long may it last :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruff
Yeah I get that... :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
we have been very lucky over the years with the likes of Leon , Noel, Frank tommy and Ian Hendren all who have imported excellent working animals in NZ and given many the opportunity to have excellent dogs .
Hopefully with Gerald Devine young – GORTINREAGH bitch which is coming we can increase again the amount of good Setters in NZ .
link for anybody that cares to look at Gerald Devines line of Dogs
Gerald Devine – GORTINREAGH « The English Setter Club of Ireland
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by el borracho
FTCH Wingfield Lace (Sharnberry Quin X Wingfield Jemima) is the setter Leon had with show blood in it. If I were to do a mating between my dog and the ponsonby bitch mentioned earlier, the pups would end up being the same mix of working/show as Lace
Is that bitch from Ponsonby seen field action Z , maybe you might consider becoming a fine and elegant Setter man like myself
I have no problem owning a setter, but I do have 1 problem with running them. I have hunted up north with you, F-T and Skid who all own setters, both Skid n F-T ran 2 dogs a day because of thier long coats causing the dog to over heat, I didnt have to with my pointer..
I had the ponsonby bitch for 2 seasons and she saw lots of field time, shes a natural retriever and she points
Spudattack, next time Im driving thru Whangas heading up home Ill have to stop in and smoke some of your good stuff, fucked if I know what your on about but im in
Best to eat it smoking is bad for your health LOL
HaHaHa spudattack removed his post, now I look like im already on the good shit
Haha, sorry mate, posted that on the wrong thread!Quote:
Originally Posted by upnorth uplander
LOL
Maybe a better question to ask instead of this X between show/working would be "How often do you work your dogs?"
The whole reason the rabbiting pack do the lot is they work daily, you work a showpony cross everyday and I will almost guarantee it will come good. My lot have had the last three weeks off then I took them out yesterday, a bit warm but they just didn't want to work. :D Shit happens, but they have a lot in front of them.....
Oh, got three pure breeds coming, a straight lab and two straight whippets. I also had a fucking good black lab all papered up there earlier this year and that fucker was HARD, right up till cancer got him :rolleyes:
I think that's true of all dogs Wirehair... work and experience count for a lot...
but it comes under the category of "all things being equal".
My dogs work every single day too... I'm lucky, I'm rural, just walking my dogs they are working.
I am very lucky I have a very well respected dog here that is now in his twilight but I think I have seen several dogs from the same kennel with the potential to be as good as him, even though many consider him to be the cream of the crop, but at his peak he was picking up on driven pheasant shoots at least three days a week and walks consist of him, me and a shotgun busting bunnies... regardless of what genes are running through his veins, he KNOWS more than all those other dogs... He's had thousands of birds and bunnies, a few hundred ducks and has hunted all over the country in different terrains.... it has to help.
BUT If you took a X and one breed like him and gave the same exposure... I know which one would come out on top.
Don't be so sure Ruff. ;)
If you want to cook a chocolate cake you put into that cake the right ingredients to make that cake, not just unknown stuff like gravel as it will probably break your tooth , hey it might not to as you may just swallow it .
Working dog breeders do this to the best of their ability depending whats on the ground to breed to and breed to the traits they like in another dog and their dog - known ingredients versus the show recipe which is all about coat , how far its tail is from its hips , are its ears pretty blahdy blahdy blah --it may end up pretty but you missed out putting the chocolate into the cake with no extra bird finding drive ,bidability and all the other fine points that make a working dog worth breeding to. The whole process has enough chance in it why make the devide bigger .
A questioned I posed before -at what stage does a show dog that hunts gets accepted as a working dog and worth breeding to though?
Some of the best cakes in fact with any cooking is when you put in a twist, still got the basics in but when you change shit around is when you find gold.
Show mutts have as good a chance as any, it's just that it is never bought out in them. Put them, or rather their pups in the right situation and give them the work and they will come to something possibly. No point condeeming them if they are untried
i kind of am.... :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wirehunt
I've run them all... crosses and purebreds and for the longest time i would have agreed with you...
The old man was on the rabbit board down south and he had lurchers, spaniels, terriers and mixes of all of these... and yes, for what you are doing what you run is the best, as with the old man.
But for what I do I've never seen a mutt yet that could match a top spaniel doing what it is supposed to do.
What do you do apart from sitting here? :D :D :D
He trains dogs for a living Wirehunt, did you not know,truth is I didnt till last week
Goes back to what I posted originally...Quote:
Originally Posted by el borracho
Wirehair, I don;t think you should give my posts any more credibility than I have given yours... It's just an opinion. I think it's based on something, but you'd have to take that on trust and there's no need to... just believe what you believe and don't get all mixed up over it.
I agree... performance alone would be enough for me... at some point you need to test of there is some ability to pass on the desired traits... it is unlikely the pedigree will indicate how.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
"A dog has to be good to win a fairly judged chamionship trial, but a great dog not properly polished or handled, will not win much. Obedience that is not up to championship standard will let him down. When breeding, knowing a dog is far more important than his trial wins". Quoted from "Bird Dogs, Yesterday Today & Tomorrow" by Dr Leon Mortensen
I agree. Measured as you said against other great dogs, if the show cross was doing well, then why wouldn't you use it. But as you put above, being a great dog is one thing, being able to produce one is quite a different thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruff
To me, maintaining the integraty of the breed, in type, conformation, exemplary prey drive and soundness of temperament is paramount. The European example where the dog must have a 'beauty' award in the showring as part of their field title helps in maintaining this integraty.
Europe's a diverse place where are you referring to ? and are their aesthetic confirmations different to ours .
France...I do not know that except for those of the Epagneul Breton where musculature, allure, correct height, etc are greatly valued and even the dentation (with some judges being pendantic to the point of counting every tooth (they recognise the breed as a HUNTING DOG in the purest sense)...I do know however that the English Setter is highly regarded in France and Italy. Furthermore bitches and dogs are confirmed before they can be bred from.