How do you see your dog, then?
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How do you see your dog, then?
pretty reasonable given his lack of work time --I put him up to be tested against others and let that be his credentials and not what I might romance
if you are inferring that I am romanciing about my dogs, then you are wrong...I know how they work in the field, I do not need to compete with anyone to know that...and while I appreciate their pedigrees are liberally splattered with French trial successes and the care of those breeders, they being the end result of all that embues them with qualities that make them more than reasonable to me...work in the rough is what makes the gundog...
I cannot see you mentioned there at all !Quote:
Originally Posted by el borracho
i do find this statement quite tell tale and well worn though of romantics "I do not need to compete with anyone to know that.."
What is it that you want someone to say of a dog they have never seen in the public arena being tested against its peers other than its probably quite reasonable ??
I'm a dog man.
Im a short man
And that's where the whole thing goes to shit. Cause some of those myths are just a bit true.
Myself if I had a dog that only worked feather, well, it would be long gone. Which to me is why trials aren't much chop, if I can get a dog that looks the part preferably from hunting parents then it's a goer.
Then ball is my court.
I had one myth dog, a mutt no less who was fantastic on everything, but even she had a major issue. Fucking possums.
Sorry if I came off as flippant, I wasn't, I meant it.Quote:
Originally Posted by el borracho
Over the years i have owned and hunted over Spaniels, Labs, a GSP, a few crosses.... In training I have worked just about every popular breeds, and many not so popular breed you can imagine on the NZ scene.
I have immense respect for good pointing dogs. I'd dearly love to own one if I felt it was the best hunting dog for the style of hunting I do most often. they aren't. I won't keep one just to trial it. Spaniels suit my work best these days... where I hunt and train owning a setter or pointer would be like owning a Ferrari in Tokyo...
Not everyone would agree with that either.... Bob, who I have immense respect for, believes and will happily tell you he shot more roosters when he hunted GSP's...
I don;t get a choice about what I breed i get to work with as a commercial trainer, what they bring through the gate is what I work with... hence I don;t think it is fair to put a label on what I am other than a dog person. I keep the most suitable breed for the use I have for it and am suited too. but I don;t to be limited to that. If I moved to a different area with a different hunting style and terrain I would happily keep a breed most suited to that. If I won the powerball last (Haven;t checked) thenh I will have a kennel with everything in it by next Tuesday :)
Which is the point i am trying to make about you comment that my dog is simply 'reasonable'...:D:DQuote:
Originally Posted by el borracho
I hope one day we can sit down with a latte and discuss this...I dont know about you, but I am just glad that we gundog people have the privilege if you like to own, work and cherish our chosen breeds, to have the opportunity to hunt them as they were intended to do and to compete against each other if that is our wish.
Regarding fur and feather, I agree with you Wirehunt. The Epagneul Breton is colloquilly (dang) referred to as the Poachers Dog...he was created by peasants for peasants, thankfully some influential people embraced the little one and helped make him what he has been, become...his role was to augment the table of the peasant (and the peasant needed a little dog that was high voltage and low upkeep)...which meant fur and feather, poached or not. I think to take the fur out of his equation is wrong.
I think that is a very sensible and honest assessment of why different dogs are kept over others .Living in the city generally means owning one or two animals and traveling to any area of choice and you know Jaffas wouldn't be seen dead in a anything less than a Ferrari :thumbsup:
Yes well, that city thing has it's own issues when it comes to dogs el b, there is some rather heated discussions around here with council types. Luckily I don't live at home much so can register out of area, all very dodgy but who can afford to rego a pack at $80+ each dog. Well that and there is some shit about a three dog limit or some crap.........
reg here i think is over 100 bucks. reg under your parents if retired its less
Reg them out of this district as working dogs which they are and it's $5 a mutt. There was even a rather heated discussion with said council type if they were working dogs. The fucking idiot.
http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...-jivehill2.jpg
http://www.nzhuntingandshooting.co.n...-armiquail.jpg
Mix of working and show lines in both these dogs. In the Versatiles you can get beautiful dogs and good working gundogs. It is easy in NZ, not many are shown. The unregistered pet only bred are the real worry IMO.
The split is certainly less marked in Versatiles than others, but it still should not be ignored. Compromise is compromise... and compromise never means better or best.Quote:
Originally Posted by GSP
Historically the split has been minor but it is increasing in GSPs. There are some kennels out there now breeding for show only and there have been some imports from show lines.
There has never been a working Vizsla import. Working being defined as European tested stock. There were two littermates out of a show sire of UK blood and a working bred bitch from a very old hungarian lines that ended up here, that was about it. Everything else has been show bred for many, many generations excepting the stuff behind the hubertus Pannonia mating and some early yank trials stuff behind the Paradox imports in the 80s. The show pundits will say, 'but our stuff still hunts', but what do they have to compare that to?
DFS Crufts 2010 Results |
This is how the show people get themselves or rather the genetics of their dogs in a twist; in fact the future of their chosen breed...this dog, after winning at Crufts went to so many bitches throughout the UK...because he won this prestigious show...to have his name on your puppies pedigrees might seem a big deal to a small brain, but what for the breed...I am not suggesting he is not a handsome dog...it is the fact that a win such as this can have so much influence on a single breed...thats the human condition for you...its pretty much nowt about the animal...
But conversely I have seen working spaniels who have shocking front legs, pigeon toed, lax pasterns, long dippy backs, loose shoulders, cow hocks etc ete...same for the labradors both in and out of the ring...boffy heads, size and height all over the place, heavy shoulders etc etc..it is not enough to laud the working ability of a breed alone...it is reaching for and maintaining work with conformation...conformation is paramount I believe to the health and long term endurance of the dog and therefore of the breed.
I've hunted wild birds with my hunting/show dogs since early 70's. Some have been better than others just like any breed.
It is sad to see the USA show lines of GSP coming in. There are plenty of beautiful working lines to chose from that would win big in the show ring.
With Vizsla it isn't easy to get a proven working line close up now. But there are many from show mixes that are working very well on deer, and birds.
What you don't take into account is you don't see these dogs because they don't go to field trials and they don't go to shows.
Also, every puppy needs exposure and if it sits in the back yard most of it's life or is just run at the beach or dog parks there is very little chance of it showing what it could be, or have been, capable of as a working gundog. They must be taken out regularly into areas where they experience game and different cover and water so that their instincts and desire get a chance to develop. Pets and show dogs seldom get this opportunity.
For the GSPs there's been working lines that have come in as well.
Interesting thread and I think I NOW sit on the NO side ... but it's a real dilemma for everyone.
We all love our dogs ... sometimes more than the wife and kids!?
We love their breeding with the hope that it will increase the chances of getting a great dog with superb skills.
This documentary changed the way I look at our (humans) responsibility towards dogs ... do we genuinely love them?
This is a YouTube documentary called "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" by the BBC.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9jROjFPAis