Thread: fish and game elections

@gsp follower, you know what the manual states...in the absence of adequate leadership...

one thing I want to know...if you catch wild birds, and/or pinch their eggs...is that not outside the concept of a permit to RAISE gamebirds...or is it simply one of those delicious grey, ooops, gray areas that those with little integrity will cash in on no matter what? Some people rant and rave about the dirth of ducks, meanwhile, others are catching the very females that produce a wild duck population...

I think that driven ducks is monstrous...they are TAME by the time the drives are made...how fricking sporting is that...

We must remember, chaps, that this is all a guise to get the rough shooter out of the rough...I would like to know the percentage of licences purchased by the everyday man/lady shooter in comparison to those with the means to gain a peg and shoot on a preserve...

Well I do attend Council meetings as a member of the public and inform myself of the facts KWB, rather than relying on the diatribe that is often offered on internet forums. I go and see how the meetings actually operate, how the individuals interact with other and how they respond to proposals and new initiatives. That's why I see the election process as a bit of a farce, as few people would bother to actually inform themselves of the performance or abilities of prospective candidates. If they did, I think they would be embarrassed at what they saw.

I wonder if you can say the same?

Originally Posted by Mike H

Follow this link for a response from the Hawkes Bay chairman on the issues and theres also a link to the minutes of their last meeting. Makes for interesting reading.

FishnHunt - New Zealands Famous Hunting and Fishing Forum Since 1995 - Important meeting this Wednesday

Minutes: http://hawkesbay.fishandgame.org.nz/...%20%282%29.pdf

I am glad you bought this up Mike. I first got wind of something wrong with a FB post by Guy Ralph. Being a wet day today (no work) I had a look at what you have posted and it perked my interest!

My first observation was "WOW" what a nasty use of minutes from the "special meeting". This looks like an unfair kindy fight. Not a lot of class on display.

I then went looking for more minutes to see if I could derive some background. That these special meeting minutes have appeared before the August meeting minutes was an intriguing oddity.

The one thing I find interesting (I don't find the tiff between parties interesting) is that the fact the new council will be made up of 8 councillors instead of 12 and the timing of everything. Depending on what you read and who you ask the change was made between 18 months and about a year ago. This would surely be done by resolution of council? I looked back to 2013 and couldn't find anything in the minutes except the bit below.

From the April 2015 HB minutes council look at the possibility of reducing the council numbers to eight councillors. Council instructed the manager that this item be added to June agenda.

Saying we lowered the councillor numbers to 8 to keep others out - that is absolutely preposterous. In HB we have not had an election for 3 terms because not enough people have put their names forward. If you haven’t been elected by the licence holders, how can you say you have a mandate to act on behalf of the licence holders

?jesus careful greg thats tantamount to hieracy
how about hawkes bay voters electing councillors in aw/eastern greg ??
who.s idea was the confidentiality agreement i doubt theyre mandatory in employment law??
why would one be neccessary unless both sides have something to hide:wtfsmilie

thats why I see the election process as a bit of a farce, as few people would bother to actually inform themselves of the performance or abilities of prospective candidates. If they did, I think they would be embarrassed at what they saw.

im embarassed i didnt believe dukshooter more and see these preserve groupies for what they were sooner
why else would you bail unless you,d got what you want id be staying untill they chucked me out to make up for my indiscretions.

Originally Posted by gsp follower

im embarassed i didnt believe dukshooter more and see these preserve groupies for what they were sooner
why else would you bail unless you,d got what you want especialy after a dirty dairying conviction id be staying untill they chucked me out to make up for it.

Why don't you ring him and find out, instead of peeking through the windows of the other forum and cutting and pasting posts out of context?

one thing I want to know...if you catch wild birds, and/or pinch their eggs...is that not outside the concept of a permit to RAISE gamebirds..

where is the seed stock of mallards for these permits coming from ????

Why don't you ring him and find out, instead of peeking through the windows of the other forum and cutting and pasting posts out of context?

a] mike h posted the link
b] if i had dukshooters number i would

how fricking sporting is that...

about 4 t0 800 dollars a day sporting eebees
after all the amount you pay along with the right clothes and gear determines your right to the best sport dont you know

i was referring to Shanks' post on the other forum which you cut and paste to here and then took his comments out of context.

Originally Posted by gqhoon

i was referring to Shanks' post on the other forum which you cut and paste to here and then took his comments out of context.

how ??my comments are my own on what he says certainly and my spin on it is obviously based on nothing he,s said other than a lot of coucillors aint re upping.
but he does say its worrying and he doesnt feel he could leave now for which i applaud him .
my impression is that he doesnt believe the job in aw is anywhere done either?
still a free country for a little bit longer anyway gq

You've taken his reasons for staying and turned it around on the people who have chosen not to stand again. The reality is you have no idea why two first-term Councillors are not standing again. You've just made shit up and some how included fictitious duck-preserves which only exist in your imagination.

Unless you've attended these meetings and seen for yourself how dysfunctional they can be, then you would have no idea of the frustrations felt by those who have taken on their role with the best of intentions, but feel let down by the system. And yet still the system (organisational structure) exists, and will persist until enough people choose to do something about it.

Originally Posted by gqhoon

Why don't you ring him and find out, instead of peeking through the windows of the other forum and cutting and pasting posts out of context?

Come on Mitch. You chaps got your censorship on the other forum, now you don't want people looking? Friends of Alan have a propaganda platform all but and you're still not happy....... Perhaps Alan and friends have tentacles in this forum and you could stifle debate here with "bannings" too?

I have a lot of time for you Mitch but sadly the only time we see your intellect on display is at election time when keyboard bullying those you feel of lesser intellect or when defending the guys that supply your shooting or clouding the issue with your irrelevance. Context or not GSPF is relevant- you are showing as a parasite that hangs below the sphincter every three years to crow for your host. Healthy host healthy parasite- I do get it.

I personally would love to see a post from you of your involvement with the Waterfowl Enhancement Trust and the projects you're/ it are involved in. There is a positive post on contribution to the game bird scene trapped in you waiting to pop out I am positive.

Greg Duley, NZ Hunter
Active Member
***

[QUOTE] If the current councillors wanted to ensure they got back in the last thing they would do is lower the council numbers! That is totally illogical and just mischief making from anyone suggesting it! We moved to go to 8 councillors about a year ago, long before all these management issues and election hooha blew up anyway, and strongly recommended that all regions that haven’t had an election for some time do the same.[/QUOTE]
Tim Allen
[QUOTE]Depending on what you read and who you ask the change was made between 18 months and about a year ago. This would surely be done by resolution of council? I looked back to 2013 and couldn't find anything in the minutes except the bit below.

From the April 2015 HB minutes council look at the possibility of reducing the council numbers to eight councillors. Council instructed the manager that this item be added to June agenda.[/QUOTE]
not unless you were very sure of your support base
instead of trying to draw me into a personel arguement gq how about offering your obvious experienced opinion on these quotes??
i say again confidentiality aggreements are to hide stuff both parties dont want to come out or as a way of hiding a large payment to shut somone up.
from the hakes bay june agenda

11.0 General Business.
Elections.
The chairman raised the matter of the elections to be held in October, he suggested promoting
an election for the Hawkes Bay region, council look at the possibility of reducing the council
numbers to eight councillors. Council instructed the manager that this item be added to June
agenda. Cr Boaler asked for an indication of who would be standing at the next elections,
Page 7 of 33
which might influence who would put their names forward, the chair said this was not
necessary. No commitments were tabled at this stage

Agenda
HAWKE’S BAY REGION
9
th June 2015

how could you add something to the june agenda when this is from the june agenda/meeting theres no mention of the numbers change bieng discussed or voted on at this meeting or the august one??

6.0 MATTERS ARISING:
There were no matters arising.

You've just made shit up and some how included fictitious duck-preserves which only exist in your imagination..

i know i shouldnt but i cant resist gq are the permits issued by doc ficticious to??

Tim, you levelled a similar accusation at me some time back, regarding my support of Paul Stenning on a particular issue. You felt I was only doing so in order to secure some shooting for myself……with a chap that I’ve never met or even had a first-hand conversation with no less. Now that may be the way your mind works, but its not the way mine does.

And If what you say was correct, and I only have something to say at election time, then I’m not sure why I attend Council meetings with the frequency that I do (more often than some Councillors, it would seem). I’m not sure why I seek to inform myself as to the way the Council operates, or see first-hand some of the dysfunction that exists, or has existed in the past. I’m not sure why I choose to pull Council up on matters, when I see it operating beyond its jurisdiction, without mandate or without authority. Granted, a lot of these issues are historical, but they are a symptom of the institutionalised behaviour that has become ‘acceptable’ and common-place within the organisation. Although when a Councillor stands up in a meeting and bellows across the room at me about how offended he is at something I’ve said, then I sense a faint glimmer of hope that atleast he may have been listening 

Consider that in the last 2 A/W Region elections, there have been 4 first-term Councillors who have decided not to stand for a second-term. These are people who have stood for Council with the best of intentions who felt they could represent stakeholders in a positive manner, but have ultimately been ‘ground-down’ by either the system or the people within it, to the point where they feel they are no longer effective. Now, it could be that these people just aren’t cut out for the job and don’t have the tenacity for it…….but ask yourself what is worse, a system that is ‘broken’ and doesn’t deliver the outcomes it should, or the people who allow it continue unchanged either through ignorance or complicity?

As for a personal argument KWB, I will continue to pull you up on matters when you are clearly just making shit up. Why don’t you inform YOURSELF of the facts, instead of simply making up stories to support your beliefs.

Oh christ here we go again .Frankly old chap after being on this forum <i wouldnt wipe my arse with all the syncophants youvegot over there and i bloody told alan simmons so albeit a little mopre politely than im telling you!-simmons BTW knew nothing of our banning says it must been the moderators.Fine by me they can all get a big fat one up them including mr "brand'shooter!

Originally Posted by kotuku

Oh christ here we go again .Frankly old chap after being on this forum <i wouldnt wipe my arse with all the syncophants youvegot over there and i bloody told alan simmons so albeit a little mopre politely than im telling you!-simmons BTW knew nothing of our banning says it must been the moderators.Fine by me they can all get a big fat one up them including mr "brand'shooter!

Alan said the same to me when I took the piss out of a recent email I got from him asking me for a donation. The banning's were a political censoring exercise. Nothing else. I think you'll find Paul had less to do with it than you think. It is of no consequence to the thread topic either way.

Think of things this way. What you get is Mitch/ GQ and co turn up and bury issue's like driven duck shooting by posting irrelevant shit- here FB where ever. They want discussion in area's they have control. How they get control is topical in relation to this thread. Elections. They don't like what you have to say and you play their game......I've done it with this post.

GSPF asked GQ's opinion on a topical issue- and you get a half page useless waffle. It would be useful to see him apply his considerable talent in an unbiased manner.

I'd also ask GQ's opinion on the difference between governance and management using the following minute excerpt. Many probably don't understand the difference.

McIntosh presented the council with the draft list of questions and requested their input.
Council requested the A to G options to question 12- What is the biggest issue facing waterfowl hunting in the Hawke’s Bay be deleted, reasoning that by not listing options hunters would not be limited in their options and experiences. Council instruct staff to include – Are you doing any predator control?