Thread: fish and game elections

@gsp follower, you know what the manual states...in the absence of adequate leadership...

one thing I want to know...if you catch wild birds, and/or pinch their eggs...is that not outside the concept of a permit to RAISE gamebirds...or is it simply one of those delicious grey, ooops, gray areas that those with little integrity will cash in on no matter what? Some people rant and rave about the dirth of ducks, meanwhile, others are catching the very females that produce a wild duck population...

I think that driven ducks is monstrous...they are TAME by the time the drives are made...how fricking sporting is that...

Um...still waiting for my voting paper...

We must remember, chaps, that this is all a guise to get the rough shooter out of the rough...I would like to know the percentage of licences purchased by the everyday man/lady shooter in comparison to those with the means to gain a peg and shoot on a preserve...

Well I do attend Council meetings as a member of the public and inform myself of the facts KWB, rather than relying on the diatribe that is often offered on internet forums. I go and see how the meetings actually operate, how the individuals interact with other and how they respond to proposals and new initiatives. That's why I see the election process as a bit of a farce, as few people would bother to actually inform themselves of the performance or abilities of prospective candidates. If they did, I think they would be embarrassed at what they saw.

I wonder if you can say the same?

You've taken his reasons for staying and turned it around on the people who have chosen not to stand again. The reality is you have no idea why two first-term Councillors are not standing again. You've just made shit up and some how included fictitious duck-preserves which only exist in your imagination.

Unless you've attended these meetings and seen for yourself how dysfunctional they can be, then you would have no idea of the frustrations felt by those who have taken on their role with the best of intentions, but feel let down by the system. And yet still the system (organisational structure) exists, and will persist until enough people choose to do something about it.

Tim, you levelled a similar accusation at me some time back, regarding my support of Paul Stenning on a particular issue. You felt I was only doing so in order to secure some shooting for myself……with a chap that I’ve never met or even had a first-hand conversation with no less. Now that may be the way your mind works, but its not the way mine does.

And If what you say was correct, and I only have something to say at election time, then I’m not sure why I attend Council meetings with the frequency that I do (more often than some Councillors, it would seem). I’m not sure why I seek to inform myself as to the way the Council operates, or see first-hand some of the dysfunction that exists, or has existed in the past. I’m not sure why I choose to pull Council up on matters, when I see it operating beyond its jurisdiction, without mandate or without authority. Granted, a lot of these issues are historical, but they are a symptom of the institutionalised behaviour that has become ‘acceptable’ and common-place within the organisation. Although when a Councillor stands up in a meeting and bellows across the room at me about how offended he is at something I’ve said, then I sense a faint glimmer of hope that atleast he may have been listening 

Consider that in the last 2 A/W Region elections, there have been 4 first-term Councillors who have decided not to stand for a second-term. These are people who have stood for Council with the best of intentions who felt they could represent stakeholders in a positive manner, but have ultimately been ‘ground-down’ by either the system or the people within it, to the point where they feel they are no longer effective. Now, it could be that these people just aren’t cut out for the job and don’t have the tenacity for it…….but ask yourself what is worse, a system that is ‘broken’ and doesn’t deliver the outcomes it should, or the people who allow it continue unchanged either through ignorance or complicity?

As for a personal argument KWB, I will continue to pull you up on matters when you are clearly just making shit up. Why don’t you inform YOURSELF of the facts, instead of simply making up stories to support your beliefs.

Oh christ here we go again .Frankly old chap after being on this forum <i wouldnt wipe my arse with all the syncophants youvegot over there and i bloody told alan simmons so albeit a little mopre politely than im telling you!-simmons BTW knew nothing of our banning says it must been the moderators.Fine by me they can all get a big fat one up them including mr "brand'shooter!

Originally Posted by kotuku

Oh christ here we go again .Frankly old chap after being on this forum <i wouldnt wipe my arse with all the syncophants youvegot over there and i bloody told alan simmons so albeit a little mopre politely than im telling you!-simmons BTW knew nothing of our banning says it must been the moderators.Fine by me they can all get a big fat one up them including mr "brand'shooter!

Alan said the same to me when I took the piss out of a recent email I got from him asking me for a donation. The banning's were a political censoring exercise. Nothing else. I think you'll find Paul had less to do with it than you think. It is of no consequence to the thread topic either way.

Think of things this way. What you get is Mitch/ GQ and co turn up and bury issue's like driven duck shooting by posting irrelevant shit- here FB where ever. They want discussion in area's they have control. How they get control is topical in relation to this thread. Elections. They don't like what you have to say and you play their game......I've done it with this post.

GSPF asked GQ's opinion on a topical issue- and you get a half page useless waffle. It would be useful to see him apply his considerable talent in an unbiased manner.

I'd also ask GQ's opinion on the difference between governance and management using the following minute excerpt. Many probably don't understand the difference.

McIntosh presented the council with the draft list of questions and requested their input.
Council requested the A to G options to question 12- What is the biggest issue facing waterfowl hunting in the Hawke’s Bay be deleted, reasoning that by not listing options hunters would not be limited in their options and experiences. Council instruct staff to include – Are you doing any predator control?

This is a thread on elections. The subject of those in A/W who have decided not to restand was raised. KWB offered his opinion on why those people aren’t restanding. I countered that he didn’t actually know the reasons. He asked me what the reasons were. I replied with what I know to be the reasons for their decisions.

I can’t explain it any simpler than that.

Hmmm -you do of course realise youll never get the protected status here than you get on the other side.If my memory serves me correctly youve popped up like a sniper before on some other issue and got your nuts handed to you on a plate. Id actually considered standing for F&G locally this year till I took the time to speak to a few wise old heads including incumbents. To put it in a nutshell I decided NO,but why I've no intention of making public on any social media least of all faeces book!

I said wow yesterday and its a double wow today! There have been some big turn ups. Apparently the dirt in the Hawkes Bay is flying both ways? I have my ear to the ground for curiosity sakes but it is one way traffic. Camp current is winning by a length or two! Would I want to be an employee of the current council based on actions (I am aware of) to date? Not a chance!! (not apportioning right or wrong to allegations either) I am quite surprised the chairman- a person I admire and think of as a huge talent has involved himself in such a way on public forums- such is the emotion of the situation. The current council could be damaging future employment opportunities in my eyes among other things that being said. The election will occur and the dust will settle. Hopefully councillors front legal bills incurred themselves should they occur.

Like most of us "out of the loop" we are left with what we can find on line. I notice the target of some very unsavoury behaviour by standing council and allies is former manager Pete McIntosh - who said in his profile "Councillors should not ignore their statutory obligation to monitor mallard populations, as is currently happening even though this iconic game bird species is in decline. Presently Hawke’s Bay is the only region in the country NOT. involved in the national mallard research projects".

From reading recent minutes it does appear that council has questioned involvement with banding and the use of transect counts. This is terribly sad as not only is monitoring a statutory requirement the standardisation of monitoring is one thing I wanted to see (as a councillor) up and down the country. It makes sense and regional data over time will become comparable with other regional trends. Wildlife management starts with population monitoring. And F&G has been woeful to this point. Why would a council question it's involvement in statutory obligations?

My fear is HB Council has hung it's hat on mallard breeding which I feel has the potential to congregate the wild population- a form of exclusive capture as the only way forward. But as I stated earlier in the thread the regions most active in breeding and commercial shooting are the ones anecdotally showing most distress among license buyers. Without monitoring you wouldn't know if the publics resource is being kept from the public?

I have little doubt there is embarrassment being caused both ways but underlying is actual issue's concerning the future of F&G as we knew it and our resource. Think about it. I will be back tomorrow with another instalment Hawkes Bay Elections Today. (way better than Reno Rumble) cheers for the entertainment.

Certainly some interesting arrangements with regards to how the ballots are drawn in HB if the emails posted on Fishnhunt are legit. Worth a read.

As for a personal argument KWB, I will continue to pull you up on matters when you are clearly just making shit up. Why don’t you inform YOURSELF of the facts, instead of simply making up stories to support your beliefs.

am i making up that the allowance of preserves in other regions was used to get them in aw
am i making up that eastern changed their local rules to allow duckshooting on properties with special conditions/preserves therefore creating a precedent where others can follow??
am i making up that doc is issueing captive mallard breeding permits to sydicates and associates of said properties??
wheres the breeding stock coming from gq and why has it never been declared as a conflict of interest??
by the bye what the fuck is a eastern manager doing in hb poking his nose into that regions election meetings??
may be he was on a stock buying trip ?? couldnt be cos aw f&g says captive mallard breeding programs are short term localised, mostly to the property the were bred on,ineffective population growers

.[QUOTE]My fear is HB Council has hung it's hat on mallard breeding which I feel has the potential to congregate the wild population- a form of exclusive capture as the only way forward[/QUOTE]

do you mean captive breeding tim?
if so then im guessing they,d have some conflict of interest issues on top of the rest of the bollocks

This is pretty disappointing stuff. I guess the stuff on the other forum is the recovered emails? If so, pretty damning.
Should the not be a red flag with so many looking for election also having a potential conflict of interest? The Game park manager?, the guides?, the bird rearer? the beater?, the caterer? Not saying there is any just transparency appears to be low.

You're not wrong there Mike! I "peeked" through "the window" but decided to reserve judgement on the leaked emails as without knowing the parties or the wider context it is hard to make safe comment?? I mean- I can see why it's been presented and how we are meant to interpret it. BUT it could simply be a young naive employee joking with two people well known to him quite unaware council and manager would end up in a bitter enough dispute to turn lives upside down?? I don't know.

If I can find out more I'll place opinion on the situation.