Help please: 2 3/4” vs 3” 0/U for ducks?

Hi there! Please bare with me as I’m guessing this is topic is like talking best rifle calibres over a camp fire…
Do I need an 3” gun or is 2 3/4” enough to bag a few ducks?
And Standard steel VS high performance stuff?

Nobody around me is into gamebird hunting so asking you all for some of your hard earned experience, thanks in advance.

Background - I’m coming over fresh to the shotgun world from a deerstalking background, never had the opportunity to try it before, but now I’m looking for an O/U to learn the art of duck shooting. Keen on an O/U as have a young dog who’s turning into a good wee hunter. Rough shooting / jump shooting really appeals as this is as much about the dog as it is about expanding as a hunter.

Reasonable secondhand O/U with open enough chokes for steel are rare as hens teeth it seems, let alone a high proof one.
Been looking for a long time and finally found a pretty good deal to consider - its a mechanically tidy ‘92 Miroku 7000 gf-1 with 2 3/4” chamber and multichoke…
Is this a good option?
Or should I search on for 3” and higher proof rating?

2 3/4" is just fine for duck shooting on river or pond. I'd go 3" if you can to future proof yourself for goose/swan shooting or longer range, but don't sweat it.

I know plenty of people who shoot 3" #3 shot and can't hit shit, and plenty who shoot 2¾ steel and drop plenty of quackers.

As long as it can shoot steel, that sounds like a great first gun! I actually prefer o/u. Safer when getting into it, and you give your two shots a little more consideration than when unloading a semi.

2 and 3/4 is fine, if you cant drop ducks with them, then 3" wont make any difference. And plenty of good choices of ammo available. And the Miroku is a really nice shotgun, I had one for about 10 years, never shouldve sold it!

Gamebore,Kent,Winchester all make great/awesome 2 3/4" ammunition as does Kiwi firm falcon. Buy what fits you best,the ammunition side of it is trial n error/ pattern board no matter what length shell.

Disclaimer; I am not a recoil sensitive Guy.......
....But, waterfowl and upland game shooting is supposed to be a pleasurable activity.
I use 2 3/4" shells for all my hunting. I initially bought into the hype that 3" shells and extra speed were needed when the transition to steel was made.
2 seasons of that were all it took for me to realise that the extra 1/4" and speed were, ( in my view), just sales hype, and that 2 3/4" shells would easily knock ducks down at ethical ranges. It wasnt worth the extra $ or recoil to go bigger.
Back in the days of lead shot, I used 1 1/4 oz of lead #fours with #3's for my 3rd and subsequent shots when shooting over open water at ranges up to 50+ yds.
You are lucky....You wont have any memory/experience of what it was like to drop ducks at longer ranges with lead so your learning will not be colored by previous experience.
The most important aspect of game bird shooting is to find a shotgun that fits you. Extra speed and larger loads are not going to help if the gun doesnt fit.
I repeat, the most important aspect of game bird shooting is to find a gun that fits YOU!

My advice would be to go along to the nearest Clay bird club. Most members would be willing to give you advice and let you try different guns ( especially on a practice day). Even better, join a a club and learn how to shoot a shotgun, the transition to shotguns sometimes can be difficult for those used to shooting rifles....Shotgunning relies on movement of the gun as opposed to rifle shooting where the gun must be stationary when the shot is taken. Basic stuff I know...but unless you learn the basics when you start out, you may find it difficult to become proficient.

Good luck.....and I wholeheartedly agree with your comments about rough/jump shooting with a dog. Days spent with mans best friend chasing game birds and waterfowl cant be beat.

yup gamebore make good 2 3/4 inch steel loads
hell in the finish i didnt even use 3 inch lead for geese in the 20 gauge
it was unnecessary extra kick and racket
im not a great duck hunter but ive come to realise but the old adage'' gettim close as you can'' mostly negates 3 inch stuff
you can use trap steel for night ponds and jump shooting
i,l be borrowing a mates u/o for geese on the weekend and i wont feel undergunned with game bore 30 gram steel 2.s cos i know they work fine at normal ranges even pass shooting if you pick your shots

buy a fabarm semi auto, one of the few semi shotguns rated for full choke and steel.

Biggest thing you need to remember, and it's all about the fit. You have to dona lot of practice shouldering the gun to get that muscle memory going and you have to be looking down the barrel in the same place all the time.
That doesn't happen in 5 minutes and you want the gun to be pretty close anyway.
Then it has to shoot where you are looking and ammo can influence that too.
In general if you are slightly high on the cheek weld and looking down onto the barrels slightly, it will shoot high which is the norm for trap shooting on the rise.
Sporting clays and hunting you want it shooting where you are looking and you won't see much of the barrel if any at all.
Just the bead.
Once you have all that sorted, believe it or not the beads are actually redundant except for checking as you don't look at them while shooting, you are looking at the target and relying on the muscle memory and practice that you are shouldering the gun in the right and same place every time.
So the big one there is make sure it fits.
Doesn't matter if it's cheap (annoying if it isn't lol), as long as it shoots where you are looking

Get a 3"chambering then you can use both.

GSPFs mentioned Baikal O/U is in fact mine,a sweet wee single trigger model. Which is my go to gun for feral geese

lost count of the number ive bowled with the old texas heart shot,and general usage .Its 2 3/4 chambering but previous owner did get the barrels opened to half choke when he bought it

. sexy wee beast it is.


My other is my ever loyal escort 3"semiauto which has assorted chokes and adjustable regulator for gas(early model approaching 20yrs old) .It handles 2 3/4 or 3"with no probs whatsoever and is primarliy my canada goose gun.

Favoured food solway magnum 3"34gm load and anything which collides with that baby is history.

My advice get out and about with a few experienced wildfowlers first and talk to them about choices
.if you can ask if theyll let you try their weapons out . likewise gun/ammo combos -everyone has a favourite.gather as much info as you can then analyse and make a choice .

None of my guns are new,but they are working guns of the budget variety .BTW-Ive never ever heard any game complain about the quality of the weapon they met their demise by -that is purely an ego driven human invention.A
hammer gun ofgreatgreatgreat grandads or a modern purdey O/U show me the dead duck who can tell the difference

As others have said gun fit is the single most important equipment related aspect when it comes to hitting birds on the wing.
I have had a very similar experience to Allgood's

I only shoot 2 3/4 these days

Awesome input everyone, thank you.

From what I’m learning it sounds like #4 is the biggest can use on an older non steel proofed gun, through half choke or less, but also sounds like #3 is really rated. Is there much between #3 and #4? Some people obviously liking the #4

How about shot size and steel proof rating with it being an older ‘92 gun?

I ask as much about this stuff in general as I am for the Miroku as it seems older guns are all I can afford - or find.
All the used O/U seem to be older with thigh chokes. Something modern steel proof with 3” and open chokes eta seems to go beyond $1400+ in the gun shops. I won’t shop online as need to know what it feels like and fits like etc.

At $799 the miroku I mentioned has multi chokes, is as good a fit as anything I’ve pickup up, feels much nicer in the hand and balance etc. Bit short but needs a new butt pad so that could solve that… it’s cheap because the the bottom of toe has split off but I don’t think that will be hard to fix?

Am I too hopeful to make an older gun work? I can save up longer if that’s really necessary.

Thanks for your help!

Also, I am keen to join the local clay club and go down the route before going afield too. Lots to learn and practice is key, plus seems like fun.

Size #3 is largest recommend for tight chokes and by keeping payload down to 34grm or lighter you can use larger shot sizes...it's like a whole lot of people barreling down wide corridor heading forr smoko room with single door...it gets cramped at narrow bit...smaller shot wiggles around making room for the rest,and less of it is like less people in hallway.

Fitting new butplate is easy enough.a slip on one works too.

Just remember UK and USA shot size is different aswell
.

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Originally Posted by Quackers

Just remember UK and USA shot size is different aswell
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As is choke terminology.

Bloody surprising that shot size is not standardised. Good to know all that stuff, helps make sense of it all, cheers.

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Originally Posted by Archie

Awesome input everyone, thank you.

From what I’m learning it sounds like #4 is the biggest can use on an older non steel proofed gun, through half choke or less, but also sounds like #3 is really rated. Is there much between #3 and #4? Some people obviously liking the #4

How about shot size and steel proof rating with it being an older ‘92 gun?

I ask as much about this stuff in general as I am for the Miroku as it seems older guns are all I can afford - or find.
All the used O/U seem to be older with thigh chokes. Something modern steel proof with 3” and open chokes eta seems to go beyond $1400+ in the gun shops. I won’t shop online as need to know what it feels like and fits like etc.

At $799 the miroku I mentioned has multi chokes, is as good a fit as anything I’ve pickup up, feels much nicer in the hand and balance etc. Bit short but needs a new butt pad so that could solve that… it’s cheap because the the bottom of toe has split off but I don’t think that will be hard to fix?

Am I too hopeful to make an older gun work? I can save up longer if that’s really necessary.

Thanks for your help!

Also, I am keen to join the local clay club and go down the route before going afield too. Lots to learn and practice is key, plus seems like fun.

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Best bet on steel proof rating is to take it in to a gun shop/gun smith if you can. I spent hours researching mine (the week before opening weekend), and ended up taking it in to Gunworks, and they checked with the rep. I had a look at Miroku guns proofing, and couldn't find anything too helpful for you, other than to check the symbols under the barrell... couldn't find much on what they mean though. Sounds like it fits well, so might be worth the effort.

Actually... I think I just sent them photos of the markings... so that would obvs be the easier option.

If your Miroku has Invector chokes, then I don't see why this wouldn't apply: https://www.browning.com/support/faq...MfOuxIgwdt6PTt

WILL ACCEPT ALL CURRENT FACTORY STEEL SHOT LOADS:

All Browning shotguns with the Standard Invector, Invector-Plus or DS choke tube systems, However, we do not recommend the use of Invector full or extra full chokes with steel shot. They pattern too tightly, and sometimes result in a "blown" pattern.

A Miroku 7000 should be the equivalent of a Browning Citori 325.

Have a read up of the ammo. A lot of 3" stuff is only going the same speed as 2&3/4 stuff with the same payload in steel. I did ask the falcon guy this once. He said going to a 3" case, it allows for a better wad and things aren't so cramped in the case and that's all . So unless you're chasing geese and can find the heavier payload stuff( more than 36-40gram), then you are at no disadvantage with 2&3/4.

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Originally Posted by PaulNZ

If your Miroku has Invector chokes, then I don't see why this wouldn't apply: https://www.browning.com/support/faq...MfOuxIgwdt6PTt

WILL ACCEPT ALL CURRENT FACTORY STEEL SHOT LOADS:

All Browning shotguns with the Standard Invector, Invector-Plus or DS choke tube systems, However, we do not recommend the use of Invector full or extra full chokes with steel shot. They pattern too tightly, and sometimes result in a "blown" pattern.

A Miroku 7000 should be the equivalent of a Browning Citori 325.

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Until recently on the European Browning site there was this text:

"All hunting or sporting shotguns (over-and-under or semi-auto guns) by Browning, Winchester and Miroku fitted with the original chokes (Invector, Steel Invector Plus, Stainless steel Invector Plus, Teague, Briley, Midas, Diamond, Signature chokes) can fire "high performance" steel shot cartridges.

Tested at the Liège test bench (high performance 1370 bars) in accordance with European law on the use of steel shot"

Some good info can be found here and here.

Some brands sell hunting cartridges especially for guns only proofed for standard steel.

Yea sweet, it has standard invector chokes so that info you shared is really good!
You guys have all been so epic putting time and effort to look into some of this stuff and share and help. Thank you. Much appreciated aye

jesus you know your getting old when mirokus considered a old gun waawaa
i bought a churchill 612 pump seems nice enough apart from the piss poor reciol pad and factory plug.
which aint as easy as a remington to remove.
it will not see a 3 inch round til i sought the recoil options and even then only to use up what i have if i cant swap them.
we went goose watching last week and found some now we just gotta get under them

Gamebore super steel 2 3/4" 32gr is a great load, Rio blue steel is another great one in 2 3/4".

In terms of shot sizes, some prefer 3s, some 4s. I'm in the 4s camp personally but that's because my 1301 loves the gamebore and patterns really nicely with it.

Did you buy the Miroku Archie?

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Originally Posted by Tikkatok

Did you buy the Miroku Archie?

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Yea mate, she’s an awesome bit of kit, shoots well for me too! Cheers


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I used to joke to Browning owners that they were the rejects from the Miroku preselection.
I have a 7000 20G and used to have the 9000 in 12G, highly underated in my biased opinion.

I've got a 9000 myself, the grade 5 wood they used was amazing for the price of them