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Causally give you a like for agreeing with me :D
The IWI probably got them to make a cloakQuote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
Didn't we get down to just a couple of Robins at one stage? And they have bounced back?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
And wasn't it the same with Jersey cows at one time Dundee, and there must be at least a hundred or so of them now aren't there?
Unfortunately we will not have a 100 cow herd this year Tahr:( But I do have a dead Takahe on the deck tonight. I will get a pic tomorrow.:ORLY:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
If you mean the black Robin, then no. They are confined to two small islands and are less in number than the Takahe. Still better than the 7 they started with and a fantastic example of conservation but they are hardly out of the woods yet so to speakQuote:
Originally Posted by Tahr
Doinit, don't think the media shot the birds!!! I think, yes I do work for the media TV in particular, and why does everyone blame the media for just reporting a story?
And yes in this case a good story of another failed DOC escapade. I know you can 'spin' it many ways but the actual facts are just that, DOC employees, contractors, friends, whatever shot those birds under their guidance.
I just hope some one, maybe twig & tweet brigade and their multitude of Wellington lobbyists will take to court. Cannot see to much difference between this and Sonny Tau myself.
Sonny didn't accidentally put the birds in his pocket, he had intent, whereas DOC and NZDA have admitted it was a mistake.
What hasn't been released by both parties yet is the experience of the shooters involved for the environment that was required, however NZDA did state they've worked successfully with DOC for years on pest eradication. Just not this time.
not a believer in the each species loss diminishes us ''pointer??Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
imagine doc if moa still existed ? there,d be all the excuses in the world for the damage they,d cause erosion forest stripping because they wouldnt dare cull them. any control would involve weeks of iwi consultation and heaps of dough.
no gunships no 1080:yaeh am not durnk: personaly id put sonny tau on a fast for a month then turn him loose on the pesky moa.
Warning graphic image below
Attachment 39991
Frankly, no. I forget the percentage, but it is something like all the species alive at this point today are only 1% of all species that have ever existed on this planet. Extinction happens, and often for the smallest of reasons. Keeping a fat flightless pukeko alive with oodles of dosh when our own species needs all the help it can get astounds me.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsp follower
I know the above statement has probably offended every kiwi who reads this so I may as well go balls deep.
Speaking of kiwis, at their present rate of decline despite our efforts they have 40 years. Sobering? Yep. Our current conservation model is as unsustainable as the species they are trying to save
not neccessarily pointer i speak as one who thought the kaimanawa horses could eat or crap on the dozy little bollock moss who 99.9%of us will never see or want to, or whatever the excuse for knockin the shite out of them was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
its interesting if something cant handle the enviroment as it exists today given intence predator and competition control methods we have now.
does it deserve to be artificially allowed to prosper in isolation where one desease outbreak or a storm could end it all. ??
Or funding dries up. If money is the only thing keeping these creatures alive, then we have already failed
What is the figure per kakapo...80,000NZD ???? not sure...
Pointer wrote...
I know the above statement has probably offended every kiwi who reads this so I may as well go balls deep.
sure does not offend me...logic...curious commodity logic, isn't it...spur wing plover, just about as dangerous to eggs and chicks of other species as the pukeko, stoat, ferret, feral cat...anyone done a population survey on our gorgeous Banded Dotterel lately...godwits/snipe etc illegal to shoot them here yet those very same birds that migrate to and from here are mist netted by the ton in the Northern Hemisphere...still, we cannot beat good old Tasmania...green twats are encouraging people to adopt a fox kit...go figure...
Imagine a push to outlaw cat ownership in NZ! Completely sensible but it will never happen, there is no money in it to justify the hearts and minds campaign they would have to use to push the idea.
At risk of going against the foundation rules of the forum, I will brush on the political nature of conservation.
Anyone who thinks that buckets of green pellets blanketing the countryside from above is in the name of conservation is kidding themselves. It's a multimillion dollar industry. Lucrative. And regardless of if the greenies think so, so is conservation. Using tax payers money (ie. yours) to sell you a concept 'for the countries good' is Macheavallian in its splendour. They very facts they spout, the ones I have quoted above, also outline that they will never succeed, but will make you feel bad about it! Brilliance.
Anyway rant over. I'm beginning to sound like Tussock
heyheyhey now I wont take that too personally but you have to admit that Dogs get quite a few Kiwi:yuush:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointer
Mine have never got a Kiwi. GSP was looking into a grass clump that was making a funny noise when out walked a Weka and pecked it on the nose. Weka walked back into the grass clump. Dog had a look of "what just happened?"
Let's change the flag and start afresh, rewind the speedo to nought as to speak, start again with a clean slate! And we'd still take the same road! I thinker we are screwed!:O_O:
you cant get much past those doc boys :DQuote:
Originally Posted by gsp follower
except maybe common sence the truth and political nuetrality;)
you,ve obviously never heartd of stompers woody:yaeh am not durnk:[/QUOTE]
The unofficial definition of "Stompers' happens to be that they are first required to be smaller than your boot. Therefore Takahe don't qualify. :innocent:
It looks rooted; BUT there's no holes in it mate!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dundee
Climate change-global warming- the coming ice age- whatever;- the major changes which are cyclically altering the environmental characteristics which shaped the evolution of our present NZ ecosystem will have major effects on the less adaptable species and create opportunities for new varieties to adapt. This includes vegetation, stream temperatures, runoff, erosion rates, leaf litter decomposition rates, food chain, food type and availability. The economics and forms of energy necessary to make life comfortable for humans is changing; it has to; because the existing forms we create are fast becoming too expensive and or the resources required are finite, while we continue to breed like maggots. In the meantime and concurrently we have to farm crops, meat, milk, wool, etc more efficiently from the finite arable land and probably diminishing climate resources.
The forests offer far greater potential to us as hunters and fishermen, foresters and engineers, than any Takahe or Blue Wattled Crow and IMHO that Forest and Mountain resource should be recognised and managed for what IT IS AND CAN BE; rather than regarded by extreme greens as a tree huggers prayer room. I do not believe the ecosystem will collapse if Takahe vanish. However the basic infrastructure from microbes through to the ungulates are integral to managing the whole for a far greater potential benefit than the government recognises.
I do not wish to see more viable forests destroyed for farm or urban use, but believe as a Forester that our existing forests should be expanded , diversified and managed to realise their full potential as both a spiritual/ recreational as well as economically recognised massive resource. Inherent in this are the landforms and waterways and an inherent right for all New Zealanders to have access.
I'd better stop or will start a book.
what i wonder is who they,re saving them for??
is it a sop to the preservationists or a real effort to save a unique and important species or fighting a losing battle with a ultimatly unsuited anachronism ??
should the public have a say in if the taxpayer funds it??and are we willing to give up some of our own domestic and wild species to have these endangered ones become widespread and safe again??
The changes of government structure of the public service in the eighties coincided with the then fashionable yuppie attitudes in corporates to "restructure". This process transferred power from practical management to management by bean counters and cloistered academic theorists and their inexperienced newly university brainwashed disciples, highly qualified and officially recognised as PC compliant, and therefore eminently suited to the "new' workforce management structures.
We lost the NZ Forest Service, DSIR, FRI, NZED, MOW, Internal Affairs, Acclimatisation Societies to the current self serving bureaucracies which serve themselves and fluffy feel-good twerps and Ministers who rely on advice from the academics rather than practical experienced manager. DoC and Regional Councils are classic examples of duplicitous burdensome blights on the reality , now buried, of the public common-sense and democratic process.
This takahe balls-up is symptomatic of the aftermath. :cave:
Well put.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
Trouble is, we have government Ministers (and shadow Ministers) who in the main lack expertise in the portfolios they are responsible for. This means that moulding civil servants under God-knows-what influences become the advisors to the Minister's as "experts' while the public are relegated to ineffective, expensive emasculating "submissions processes". Result? Erosion of the NZ traditional ethos, and control of NZ by bean counters (BANKS) with little or no regard for hunters and fishermen's values, let alone what we all used to know as Moral Fibre and the "Fair Go".
Find me an honest political party please.
not only expertise but empathy because they know whatever happens they,re well off enough to piss off somewhere else or be guarenteed a cushy job for life by thier own govt mates or party supporters/funders. By the time the dairy fall off bites next year and the sneaky rape of more soe,s assets is realised the true incompetence and duplicitous betrayal of this country, by those who claim to love it as we do,may be to far gone to fix.Quote:
Trouble is, we have government Ministers (and shadow Ministers) who in the main lack expertise in the portfolios they are responsible for
they even sdmitted theyve only spent 16,5 billion on the earthquake recovery so far they had 10 billion owing when they got in now we are upto 70 billion in debt with more planned borrowing ???
the list of incompetent/puppet ministers is unbelievable, guy, parata, tolley, lotuinga, smith,woodhouse, bridges, english. and that dont include the members kicked out for fraud or misbehavior.??
[QUOTE]Woody, we have gone through easy times, and so we just lost interest in democracy. [/QUOTE]
yep and replaced with foccussing on our own self interest and begrudging groups who got any money, even if it was redresss, from the govt, to the detriment of our whole country
Now there are kea being damaged...oh dear...
And we know who:oQuote:
Originally Posted by EeeBees
I sent a request to several MP's and Ministers a few days ago requesting them to describe to me the course of action required to enforce and prosecute the rules of integrity contained in the Cabinet Manual, and also the codes of conduct for public servants. These rules state that public servants are not allowed to lie or give misleading statements to public and to Ministers.
So far, I have had no answers to my question.
Tussock, we cannot turn our backs. It would be like shutting your eyes and turning your back when confronted by an adder or hyena. Somehow New Zealanders must recognise our problem /s and then deal with it. The tolerance of governments to bullying and attempted takeovers by some factions, of our Forest Parks, exotic forests and other wild areas when the rest of us are then deliberately excluded from access and OUR traditional food gathering and fishing has now reached intolerable levels for most of us. The Takahe incident is very convenient isn't it.
Are you suggesting it was orchestrated?Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
I know you think this is democracy in action, but it's pointless even with an OIA request.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
Don't confuse dumb luck with a conspiracy ;) you'd be surprised just how inept people can be.Quote:
Tussock, we cannot turn our backs. It would be like shutting your eyes and turning your back when confronted by an adder or hyena. Somehow New Zealanders must recognise our problem /s and then deal with it. The tolerance of governments to bullying and attempted takeovers by some factions, of our Forest Parks, exotic forests and other wild areas when the rest of us are then deliberately excluded from access and OUR traditional food gathering and fishing has now reached intolerable levels for most of us. The Takahe incident is very convenient isn't it.
Traditional food gathering ?
I agree. Even though some NZDA members are bird and clay target shooters wouldn't it have made more sense for DOC to ask a Game bird club for their best and most experienced game bird shooters to participate in the cull instead DA members? I know that in my local NZDA among those that shoot birds most wouldn't have the experience to make the split second decision to tell a cock pheasant from a hen in flight etc. Even so, in this case, in flight means just that, in the air. Cowboys on the loose.Quote:
Originally Posted by madds
Watch out next roar good people, we have NZDA members out there who seem to be a little trigger happy or are just plain stupid.
I bet they don't taste any better.
Many others besides myself want to see the liars and spin doctors who are paid from taxpayers funds sacked. Accountability of these leeches is well overdue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussock
I am sure they will then get the point Kscott. And yes, I have fed my family on wild foods and my parents before me and before them, my grand parents and great grandparents. Of course we have traditional food gathering and as far as we are concerned, we have customary rights just as much as any other New Zealander.
DoC and government better respect this if they want any respect in return.
It might as well have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moutere
That sounds more like political spin than a straight answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody
Actually Tussock there are plenty of hunting groups out there that are looking after huts, repairing, upgrading, painting, etc, who do think did up the Growler hut? Built the Godley?
Plenty of NZDA branches doing trapping programs.
The Canterbury Jetboat assn look after two huts that DOC we're going to knock down.
Permolat do a lot of voluntary work in this area too
I can see your point Tussock, particularly the last line. I spent two years searching out two old NZFS culler hut sites and the old tracks from them into the heart of the Whirinaki with a view to taking some young people back into those areas to hunt. Now the area is to again be poisoned with 1080 by the TB Free / AHB even though there are no farms within miles. My plans to help myself and others this coming spring have come to naught, and it is not the first time this has happened to me and others. Local further North are incensed and are now seeking not only a 1080 ban, but also exclusive rights to the north sections.
In another instance, I opened a track into a part of the central Kaimanawa. Being nearly 70 I applied to DoC for permission to have food air dropped once I had opened up to 4 hours in, so I could carry on without the severe impediment of carrying heavy weight on the old knees. The official decision was NO, because a supply air drop was considered the same as landing an aircraft, which was not permitted in the area I was opening up. I feel I have invested a lot of wasted time, effort and energy, not to mention the pain.
Guess when they will poison this area again?
I guess we are getting a bit off the subject of Takahe and Pukeko. Sorry.
Incidentally, we shoot and eat a lot of Pukeko and it is very nice. Pukeko soup is just as nice as chicken soup.
Good luck with that. As far as i can tell, they've committed no offence under the Arms Act. The 7 Basic Rules aren't legislation, and the only one of them that it is a direct offence to break is the drugs/alcohol one. They appear to have committed an offence under the Wildlife Act, and since it was part of an organised NZDA activity, their liability insurance should kick in to cover the hefty fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy
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