Thread: sub gauge lead at ellesmere

my understanding is that the non toxic shot only rule was an oversight and that permits there had been amended to bring them inline with f&g rules.
well apparently not as ive just spent 15 minutes being lectured by former f&g man ross millichamp on the ''toxiicty of lead shot'' studies and how f&g manage the waterfowl rules but we manage the land.
worse f&g nth canterbury have sold them boggy creek so they,l enforce it there to so if you want to use subgauge lead on elly you,l have to look into f&g lobbying doc and ngai tahu.
his best excuse was we,d have to talk to ngai tahu about changing the permits and they wouldnt go for it especially given we,are spending bulk money to clean the lake up.
to which i replied ''whats wrong with the lake has bugger all to do with subgauge lead use''.
i could if forced find 20 gauge steel but my shoulder replacement mate with a 28 gauge hasnt a shit show in hell.
the incongruity of doc using lead out of choppers when its suits them seemed to escape him

just to be clear if you shoot on any part of lake ellesmere that is not private you now have legally no place that you can use subgauge lead.

so be careful

Should be simple enough to get the rule changed, just show them all your scientific evidence that lead poisoning in ducks is a fallacy. If that doesn't work get Neil Hayes onto them

Or simply comply with the rules.
Otherwise find somewhere else to shoot.

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Or simply comply with the rules.
Otherwise find somewhere else to shoot.

certainly but just letting sub gauge users know that there permits which state non toxic shot means them to.
cos the f&g exemption doesnt apply on doc land even tho its ''public land''

Should be simple enough to get the rule changed, just show them all your scientific evidence that lead poisoning in ducks is a fallacy. If that doesn't work get Neil Hayes onto them

as simple as you thought it would be in southland coucillor
ah mike nice to see you havent turned over a new leaf still moanin about stirring when its your thread but so quick to stir on others

The reality is we could've changed it easily enough had we really wanted to. Instead we listened to the submitters and backed down. You know this. Again your making it about me or Southland though.

If you've got an issue lobby DOC and show them the science is flawed but you won't because no one will listen to a raving looney with no idea and no backing. I'll withdraw now after that prod. See if you can keep on track, no need to have another dig at me or Southland F & G. We've heard it all before. Good luck in disproving the science and winning over DOC.

Or just use steel

Originally Posted by gsp follower

just to be clear if you shoot on any part of lake ellesmere that is not private you now have legally no place that you can use subgauge lead.

Good information. Does that extend to other water bodies (become standard on all DoC administered land)? I bet few sub gauge users would realise that was the case for Ellesmere (or anywhere)

MikeH, seeing as you have been passionate in attempts to remove lead from hunting in NZ, and as a F&G councillor perhaps your time posting could better be used informing this forum on such matters rather than following your old mate around the web to offer taunts. I know you have a bit more to offer than that.

Originally Posted by Nathan F

Or just use steel

yep im trying to track some 20 gauge steel now all day in fact

but you won't because no one will listen to a raving looney with no idea and no backing. I'll withdraw now after that prod. See if you can keep on track, no need to have another dig at me or Southland F & G.

speaking from personel experience mike??
perish the thought mike given how diplomatic and concillatory you,ve been

anyway now you know so dont get caught out cos im pickin ignorence will not be an excuse a doc ranger will except any more than f&g one

Does that extend to other water bodies (become standard on all DoC administered land)?

im pretty sure the answer to that question is yes tim but no matter i,l work within the law somehow

well well,look whose poked his snorer out like a old buck jacko in the thoes of the rut eh!-wondered how long it would be. no further comment ,waste of my time. "raving looney -"you wouldnt know one if it sneaked up bit you on the arse with bare teeth or bare gums sonny!
GSP follower, Ithought Ross Millichamp retired(?illhealth) and that other bloke took over. Wonder if DOC will make efforts to improve boggy creek. In fact is this deal done & dusted or is it still in the negotiation phase.
Takes me back to my own conversations with RC over my maimai 7 project when he candidly admitted to me F&G didnt know here half the so called balloted maimais were and it may need attention at some time in the future. maybe ill check with my F&G contact on the state of play.
Personally and as a 12g steel user Id have thought both parties would have had the common courtesy to publicly notify the steel shot change for sub guage users at boggy as a sign of common decency,after all the mantras &gospels emanating from both are always harping on about shooters showing courtesy toward each other!
still i suppose anything is better than saturating Ellesmere with 1080 to rid it of so called pests.
Actually ive another point of irony too of recent times.
BryceJohnson CEO of NZF&G offering the olive branch to Fed Farmers and reams of quoted prose over how we must work together etc etc etc and that is settled .....Until a retiring CSI F&Gofficer rears up and lashes out at mckenzie country cockies over waterway pollution etc etc etc,apparently overlooking the assorted nutrient pollutants in the tekapo canals from commercial salmon farm food. Now with all due respect mr Allen you may not agree with my POV or writing style ,but im merely pointing out , via facts whati see in shortcomings from a human perspective,and in many cases a simple woeful ineptness regarding simple communication.
ive no axe to grind with the member for southland , as the last bloody one shat itself when the going got a little hot!
have a loverly day.-tommorrow before those bloody polis make a law against happiness.

Since the ownership of the lake bed has been transferred to Ngai Tahu, I don’t think it is unreasonable for them to stipulate the use of non-toxic shot over the lake bed as part of their input to the management of the Lake. It is not too dissimilar to Tuhoe’s direct input on the recreational use and management of Te Urewera.

There is a fairly lofty vision for the Lake, which is great to see. I guess we all have a part to play in the process of achieving it, no matter how insignificant it may seem.

Originally Posted by gqhoon

Since the ownership of the lake bed has been transferred to Ngai Tahu, I don’t think it is unreasonable for them to stipulate the use of non-toxic shot over the lake bed as part of their input to the management of the Lake. It is not too dissimilar to Tuhoe’s direct input on the recreational use and management of Te Urewera.

There is a fairly lofty vision for the Lake, which is great to see. I guess we all have a part to play in the process of achieving it, no matter how insignificant it may seem.

nothing wrong with lofty visions for lakes and cleaning it up and if i can get 20gauge steel i,l follow thier rule.
if i cant i.l stay away till i can follow the permit rules

GSP follower, Ithought Ross Millichamp retired(?illhealth) and that other bloke took over

ross is doc manager at the mahinui sockburn office decent enough bloke but we obviously see things differently but that doesnt make either of us wrong or less passionate about our sport. yes he is a duck hunter.

Come out with me if you want , we can fill the lake from my stand with as much lead as we like ! We may have to draw straws on whose dog , two GSP s in a maimai and going to work
And to the fish and game "troll "! As I read his first post he was informing us , makes you look like a complete fucking moron !

hes chairman southland F&G council munsey nuf said!

Originally Posted by kotuku

hes chairman southland F&G council munsey nuf said!

I doubt that. Mike is yet to attract a vote (no elections for two terms), and while I am sure he is capable of such a task I am sure he would prefer to have some mandate from voter respect/ support. I think he has a little maturing to do yet personally.

It is a little disappointing to see him trolling, but both of you lads have long since left kindy so don't need to react, though I'd hate to see things turn into a vomit inducing pit of niceness It would get rather boring....

Something worth considering- while it "appears" voter angst held up a change to the sub gauge rules the reality is a core group didn't give the nod for the change to happen- yet. But they will. The change is inevitable, like it or not, so mocking about the current status quo isn't a condition that you will have leverage in perpetually. So play nice