Thread: sub gauge lead at ellesmere

my understanding is that the non toxic shot only rule was an oversight and that permits there had been amended to bring them inline with f&g rules.
well apparently not as ive just spent 15 minutes being lectured by former f&g man ross millichamp on the ''toxiicty of lead shot'' studies and how f&g manage the waterfowl rules but we manage the land.
worse f&g nth canterbury have sold them boggy creek so they,l enforce it there to so if you want to use subgauge lead on elly you,l have to look into f&g lobbying doc and ngai tahu.
his best excuse was we,d have to talk to ngai tahu about changing the permits and they wouldnt go for it especially given we,are spending bulk money to clean the lake up.
to which i replied ''whats wrong with the lake has bugger all to do with subgauge lead use''.
i could if forced find 20 gauge steel but my shoulder replacement mate with a 28 gauge hasnt a shit show in hell.
the incongruity of doc using lead out of choppers when its suits them seemed to escape him

just to be clear if you shoot on any part of lake ellesmere that is not private you now have legally no place that you can use subgauge lead.

so be careful

Originally Posted by gsp follower

just to be clear if you shoot on any part of lake ellesmere that is not private you now have legally no place that you can use subgauge lead.

Good information. Does that extend to other water bodies (become standard on all DoC administered land)? I bet few sub gauge users would realise that was the case for Ellesmere (or anywhere)

MikeH, seeing as you have been passionate in attempts to remove lead from hunting in NZ, and as a F&G councillor perhaps your time posting could better be used informing this forum on such matters rather than following your old mate around the web to offer taunts. I know you have a bit more to offer than that.

Should be simple enough to get the rule changed, just show them all your scientific evidence that lead poisoning in ducks is a fallacy. If that doesn't work get Neil Hayes onto them

Or simply comply with the rules.
Otherwise find somewhere else to shoot.

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Or simply comply with the rules.
Otherwise find somewhere else to shoot.

certainly but just letting sub gauge users know that there permits which state non toxic shot means them to.
cos the f&g exemption doesnt apply on doc land even tho its ''public land''

Should be simple enough to get the rule changed, just show them all your scientific evidence that lead poisoning in ducks is a fallacy. If that doesn't work get Neil Hayes onto them

as simple as you thought it would be in southland coucillor
ah mike nice to see you havent turned over a new leaf still moanin about stirring when its your thread but so quick to stir on others

The reality is we could've changed it easily enough had we really wanted to. Instead we listened to the submitters and backed down. You know this. Again your making it about me or Southland though.

If you've got an issue lobby DOC and show them the science is flawed but you won't because no one will listen to a raving looney with no idea and no backing. I'll withdraw now after that prod. See if you can keep on track, no need to have another dig at me or Southland F & G. We've heard it all before. Good luck in disproving the science and winning over DOC.

Or just use steel

Originally Posted by Nathan F

Or just use steel

yep im trying to track some 20 gauge steel now all day in fact

but you won't because no one will listen to a raving looney with no idea and no backing. I'll withdraw now after that prod. See if you can keep on track, no need to have another dig at me or Southland F & G.

speaking from personel experience mike??
perish the thought mike given how diplomatic and concillatory you,ve been

anyway now you know so dont get caught out cos im pickin ignorence will not be an excuse a doc ranger will except any more than f&g one

Does that extend to other water bodies (become standard on all DoC administered land)?

im pretty sure the answer to that question is yes tim but no matter i,l work within the law somehow

well well,look whose poked his snorer out like a old buck jacko in the thoes of the rut eh!-wondered how long it would be. no further comment ,waste of my time. "raving looney -"you wouldnt know one if it sneaked up bit you on the arse with bare teeth or bare gums sonny!
GSP follower, Ithought Ross Millichamp retired(?illhealth) and that other bloke took over. Wonder if DOC will make efforts to improve boggy creek. In fact is this deal done & dusted or is it still in the negotiation phase.
Takes me back to my own conversations with RC over my maimai 7 project when he candidly admitted to me F&G didnt know here half the so called balloted maimais were and it may need attention at some time in the future. maybe ill check with my F&G contact on the state of play.
Personally and as a 12g steel user Id have thought both parties would have had the common courtesy to publicly notify the steel shot change for sub guage users at boggy as a sign of common decency,after all the mantras &gospels emanating from both are always harping on about shooters showing courtesy toward each other!
still i suppose anything is better than saturating Ellesmere with 1080 to rid it of so called pests.
Actually ive another point of irony too of recent times.
BryceJohnson CEO of NZF&G offering the olive branch to Fed Farmers and reams of quoted prose over how we must work together etc etc etc and that is settled .....Until a retiring CSI F&Gofficer rears up and lashes out at mckenzie country cockies over waterway pollution etc etc etc,apparently overlooking the assorted nutrient pollutants in the tekapo canals from commercial salmon farm food. Now with all due respect mr Allen you may not agree with my POV or writing style ,but im merely pointing out , via facts whati see in shortcomings from a human perspective,and in many cases a simple woeful ineptness regarding simple communication.
ive no axe to grind with the member for southland , as the last bloody one shat itself when the going got a little hot!
have a loverly day.-tommorrow before those bloody polis make a law against happiness.

Since the ownership of the lake bed has been transferred to Ngai Tahu, I don’t think it is unreasonable for them to stipulate the use of non-toxic shot over the lake bed as part of their input to the management of the Lake. It is not too dissimilar to Tuhoe’s direct input on the recreational use and management of Te Urewera.

There is a fairly lofty vision for the Lake, which is great to see. I guess we all have a part to play in the process of achieving it, no matter how insignificant it may seem.

Originally Posted by gqhoon

Since the ownership of the lake bed has been transferred to Ngai Tahu, I don’t think it is unreasonable for them to stipulate the use of non-toxic shot over the lake bed as part of their input to the management of the Lake. It is not too dissimilar to Tuhoe’s direct input on the recreational use and management of Te Urewera.

There is a fairly lofty vision for the Lake, which is great to see. I guess we all have a part to play in the process of achieving it, no matter how insignificant it may seem.

nothing wrong with lofty visions for lakes and cleaning it up and if i can get 20gauge steel i,l follow thier rule.
if i cant i.l stay away till i can follow the permit rules

GSP follower, Ithought Ross Millichamp retired(?illhealth) and that other bloke took over

ross is doc manager at the mahinui sockburn office decent enough bloke but we obviously see things differently but that doesnt make either of us wrong or less passionate about our sport. yes he is a duck hunter.

Come out with me if you want , we can fill the lake from my stand with as much lead as we like ! We may have to draw straws on whose dog , two GSP s in a maimai and going to work
And to the fish and game "troll "! As I read his first post he was informing us , makes you look like a complete fucking moron !

Originally Posted by Munsey

Come out with me if you want , we can fill the lake from my stand with as much lead as we like ! We may have to draw straws on whose dog , two GSP s in a maimai and going to work
And to the fish and game "troll "! As I read his first post he was informing us , makes you look like a complete fucking moron !

i appreciate the offer gsp but we have a rather interesting river pond or 2 but please consider it reciprocated if you find yourself down rakaia way twiddling your trigger finger
and yes i think 2 gsp,s would would require a higher grade of anti whine hearing protection tho mine doesnt have an aggressive bone in his body he,s about as impatient for the first bit of action as a gsp could be. 1st couple under his belt and he settles back to shivering like its his last day on earthas a aside tho what size neoprene suit fits yours??i couldnt bear a repeat of his 1st retrieve of the day at boggy a year or so back when he squealed about how cold the water was all the way to the parrie and only the bird in his gob kept him from doing the same on the way back[it was chilly mind]i did think it unwise to remind the retarded rodent that perhaps tearing of his wetsuit at every opportunity and eventually losing it was his own fn fault and wrecking the spare older model served him bloody right. but im not that kind of owner and figured the silence he listens to me with[mostly] would be a better plan than rubbing it in
to me its not about throwing lead in the lake or who,s doing the most damage there its about one rule for all
not doc trying to dictate f&g policy by only following or allowing to be followed the rules that suit them and using ngai tahu as an excuse.
but yes tim i figure subgauge lead use time maybe numbered on wetlands/lakes, over water but i will hang on to mine and start a better search for non toxic i will probably be pushing excrement up a vertical grade but whatever gets me out to the public spots i love i will put up with.

Originally Posted by gsp follower

to me its not about throwing lead in the lake or who,s doing the most damage there its about one rule for all
not doc trying to dictate f&g policy by only following or allowing to be followed the rules that suit them and using ngai tahu as an excuse.

Those who administer the activities on the Lake have got one rule for all. If you want to shoot on the Lake, then you use non-toxic loads, regardless of shotgun gauge.