As we've been bagged in Southland for our approach I'm interested in what you guys think is the answer? I won't be replying in here, just viewing for the hope of some new found knowledge :)
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As we've been bagged in Southland for our approach I'm interested in what you guys think is the answer? I won't be replying in here, just viewing for the hope of some new found knowledge :)
Ban sub gauge lead! Oh wait, thats your idea. Pure genius
I reckon its being forced to use steel I noticed I wound more on the river compared to in the paddocks with lead. Then theres people that shoot waaaay over there limit.
Need to protect ducks in the off season, how many die from diseased waterways, shit ponds etc? And also pukes kill a lot of chicks
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Does the decline in numbers in Southland match the increase in dairy production and if so then that's what needs to be looked at.
Agreed and add Pukes to the list all year round for a while or take them off the GB list and make them a pest.Quote:
Originally Posted by 7mmwsm
All the 3 Shot limit type stuff is just window dressing just like what the govt generally , its not about actually doing anything useful (most of the time) , its just about looking like you are "doing something".
Also to actually encourage habitat enhancement and god forbid restocking/breeding.
It's rocket science this. Habitat disappearing fast, dirty rivers. Major grain feed area's gone down south.
Out of interest, how long has the lead ban been in place for 12 gauge and what would be an average age for a mallard? If the lead was causing the earlier demise of mallards should they have had enough time to get the lead out of their systems (ie a generation or two with 95% lead reduction)? If this is the case and the numbers are still not increasing then that points to something other than lead shot being the issue and research needed to find out what are the real issues.
institute imediate water quality monitoring for all know an suspected sourses of water way pollution including local govenment sourses and other business besides farmers. protect water quality and quantity at all levels including source therfore isolating polluters and excessive overtake for irrigation.cover and treat shit ponds where birds congregate and the outbreaks of desease seem the most obvious.take the savings from goose control and immediatly begin comprehensive and multi region duck research.
in lake ellesmeres case find a better way to open it in times of flood and when it needs a good flush out. the present system is mickey mouse and expensive maybe the canal to forsyth which would allow constant sea water flushing.also bring back the grazing to the areas it was stopped there. it cleaned up all the rank overgrown areas an kept the fire risk down as well as keeping a fresh constant supply of good pick for all waterfowl.in short give more control of a waterfowl area to f&G because doc dont give a monkeys:XD:
lets be clear mike i applaud your quick moves on mallard research i do not applaud you guys ignoring the very people that put you there or thier submissions and opinions. if you had the environments, habitats and waterfowls interest at heart then why repeat,albeit on a smaller scale ,a ban that in 10 years has not proved to increase waterfowl numbers or save habitat or the environment.especially when proven larger pollution sources get the government to legislate away thier messesQuote:
As we've been bagged in Southland for our approach I'm interested in what you guys think is the answer?
Stop shooting them?
loss of habitat (food and home).
Anyone watching tv one?
Catch and eat eels to save ducks :D
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actually with less shooters due to lead ban &more political machinations in fact the mallard population may well have exploded eating out house &home.hence nature dictates the weakest perish.here in shakey city and out at ellesmere it seems alls dandy ,plenty of tucker f...er,and cruisin.
same further south when camoed upin a paddock the other night had mobs of mallards cruise around us yahooing like boy racers bfore droppin in for a kai out of range!the canadas who did the same thing except stood eyeing us were in common language"extremely f..d off".lets face it any gamebird loves visiting the avian =of maccas ;a cockys crop paddock.
Its also interesting that in the past 2yrs since nature the old bitch decided to hula,that metrosexual mallards are increasing faster than adolescent acne.
ihave 8 who fly over my place at least twice daily mocking me.
yup saw five under me oak tree 2weeks ago -daughters cats attempted the obvious but apologies to gareth morgan,
a miss was as good as a mile. one old hen actualy chrged the bloody cats -the audacity of it!!
in short ;if humans attempt to control ma nature a F..up is as sure as christ made little apples.
actually camm youd be right there too,my late father often commented on the bloody black brutes who naIeld ducklings and wounded birds.plus theres nowt like a nice wee smoked eel!
if humans attempt to control ma nature a F..up is as sure as christ made little apples.
Yup
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I think tussock summed it quite well with his comments about dairying... i wouldnt live very well in poo either!!!!
Lets be honest it hasnt done our trout fisherys any good either!!!!
Ducks on the Coast rely on dairying or the dairying land to be honest. I am convinced of that. Duck numbers are normally high from Karamea down to Fox glacier, mainly dairy districts. South of Fox the numbers thin out even though there is plenty of water in way of tidal lagoons and swamps. The majority of the ducks that are there, are greys and parries with very small speckeling of mallards.
Last season was the worst for numbers that I can remember around the Kokatahi-Kowhitirangi district. Prior to the season there seemed to be ducks everywhere. I missed opening weekend due to work. My usual crew went to where we always shoot the sat and did not do well considering the conditions were perfect. It was the first year that they didnt shoot their limits opening morning in that spot. My mate did shoot his limit the next day in another area.
There are 4 large farms in the family that I shoot. They have numerous ponds and normally awesome numbers of ducks. They were very quiet last season and I have no idea why.
River bed shooting is my favorite passtime during the season. In our valley large rafts of ducks are usually easy to find and with a bit of prep you always get a good shoot. There was a severe lack of birds on the rivers as well.
Apart from last season I have enjoyed being able to do a bit of leg and bino work and always have decent shoots. I no longer go out as much as I used too because of time but if I discount last season, I cannot say that dairy is the cause for a decline in ducks, on the coast at least. I assume our rainfall and run off is a huge help compared to other regions. Something strange did happen last season too the birds no doubt, but I am not sure what.
Again this year there seems to be a lot of birds around the district from what I have seen so it will be interesting to see how this season pans out.
As for other regions, there is most likely man made reasons the numbers are dwindling. Water quality would be a big difference compared to the coast. There is no doubt lead isint the best thing for ducks to be ingesting but I would say it is a very miniscule problem in the scheme of things. I also think a lot of the issues cannot be solved by F&G because of jurisdiction. it will take a lot of effort from many different groups to get to the cause and rectify it IMHO.
Wildlife need the right habitat to breed and feed etc, It is habitat , habitat , habitat .
We know, from licence sales and from personal comments , that many shooters have quit the game because of the introduction of steel shot .
Land owners/occupiers ( who cant be checked by looking at licence sales) probably quit in the same percentage and for the same reasons .
For landowners/occupiers to keep non productive land like swamps and ponds , they must have a stake in them , ie there must be some other benefit to them .
When they stop shooting they look at the valuable land that no longer has any recreational value to them and is now going to waste and convert it to pasture . Exit stage left one swampy pond .
Loss of habitat before any thing else , before steel, before multishot shot guns, before feeders before flappy decoys , with an ample sufficiency of habitat all the other things can be absorbed by natural means
To paraphrase T S Elliot in the Hollow Men
This is the way the duck shooting ends
Not with a bang but a whimper
Now that is the most common sense comment on this whole debate. Are you listening F&G.Quote:
Originally Posted by Druid
It no use having all these rules if the ducks have nowhere to do the honky bonky and raise their young
2 Years ago A group of us were considering raising/releasing pheasants. 10 of us had ideas purchasing between 50 and 100 chicks each and raise/ release em. Would have been a sizable investment in money and time for each of us. It all got too difficult. We were hoping to have a single shoot, on one day where we might get to shoot 2-3 brace each on the day given all the money/cost/ time / effort which would be invested. Broached it with local F&G at the time as they were tying to push "habitat enhancement". The reply was good idea but l no special permission for you sorry guys, limit is 1 Cock per day and and season was 9 days nine total. Last year the season was 3 months / ! bird per day on private land in the region, (F&G definition of private land is that "local forestry is public land even though PUBLIC do not have general free access at any time and have to apply and PAY for a permit fee to the lease older to gain access") It was just not worth it.
The idea has not died yet, We are still keen to do something, currently thinking that we might substitute the "Pheasant" for Guinea Fowl and hope they go "feral" enough to be an OK substitute.
Then hunt em with the dogs and have a good day out with no hassles, no bag limit (other than common sense), common sense not silly rules, and best of all no License required. If it worked out most likely I might never buy a licence again and just make do with gees, guinea foul and clays
The amount of empty ponds are is staggering, and some of these ponds are in top areas.
But by the time you pay for everything it's getting out of a lot of peoples price range. Paying double+ for steel shot to what it cost for lead, licence through the roof, habitat disappearing fast (with duck numbers down because of it) and you wonder why people are just not bothering.
In the last two years numbers have dropped dramatically were we shoot, yet steel shot has saved the day. Yer right. Tui ad......
please dont lump all the f&g,s together .there are standouts that are doing good work i would have said southland was one of them even given this sub gauge debacle.
but the west coast and nth canterbury stand out and i have high hopes for csi with some new blood.remember the loudest squeak gets the most oil and in our case its fisho,s because they pay 10 times what we do towards licence revenues.even so there are signs of hope especially here with rising licence numbers and public areas getting the use the never got 2 to 3 years ago ie boggy creek a f&g owned and managed area that was overgrown and most maimai dilapidated.
i dont think dairy farms are the problem at thier source i think as with all pollution its downstream the worst effects are felt ie lakes like ellesmere and others ,where the combined messs from gods knows how much farm town and residential sources: collects.:XD:
I don't class all F&G branches or even staff in the same light. With out any exceptions at all the field staff I have met from both the local F&G and other areas (mid canty) have been without doubt thoroughly professional and passionate about their work, seems to be similar to most big companies. Workers (who actually notice most things and generally have the best idea of what is actually happening) are the last to be consulted.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsp follower
Does this sound familiar,
"i hear what you are saying, but moving forward with this issue we must achieve a win win situation for all the stakeholders involved . We need to consult with the other interested parties and form focus groups to assess the situation and then move forward again as a team to have a positive outcomes. "
I would have switched off about the 9th word because I have learned that if you sift out the management buzz words what is actually achieved is nothing.
Personal agendas are everything / everywhere and all encompassing. The majority are usually silent and get shafted. I mean if 4% of the total of all game shooters are causing such a problem they must be damn good at it.
To put it another way if the boss wants you fired and all the other board members like you and think you are good at your job will they stand up for you?
No, you will still be fired cause they all want to keep "in the good books and keep their" with the boss even though privately they might tell you they tried to help.
Unfortunately become very cynical as you have most likely guessed, .
f&g is starting to have the same stink as doc.....
Most of the shot duck population, around HB, get shot on opening weekend. I would suggest the same goes everywhere in NZ.
After that its a huge drop in numbers culled simply due to the lack of hunters.
Reducing the bag limit will help reduce this volume and will have the biggest effect on bird numbers.
They may get shot later in the season but I would suggest less likely as the majority of hunters have packed up.
Shortening the season is not the answer, as explained above.
Rain and food are the major contributors to survival.
HB has had a major drop in crops, what is been grown isn't what ducks like, volume is way less almost concentrated in one area as well.
When compared to Gisborne area where there is still heaps of grain crops the bird numbers are great.
We have been trapping around our pond and the changes have been good, but we are only defending our resident population, which get culled opening day in any case. So no real help with the population. Unless we all do our part.
So far our traps have taken out 14 feral cats, 4 stoats, numerous hedgehogs, similar volume of rats although they are less frequent now.
Gets to be a passionate topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samsbuddy
Agree and see same round Waikato. Its the old school who just continually take 400 or 500 on opening weekend both blimmin days..
We seem to have stopped fishermen from being as bad. Just about everyone stays inside the snapper rules now.
How ? Because the Fish pigs do a great job.. in the right areas and take no prisoners just cane them up ..
Drought as well and farm land being worth so much " lets drain that swamp boys milk another cow off that spot ..."
How long till its like the Parrie shoots.. " Special mallard shoot every two or three years only "
Weve just spent shitloads trying to preserve what we have :ie two diggers one truck in the ponds cleaning out years worth of silt and crap.
About all we can do really except just take our limit no more than that.
# Research - climatic / enviromental influences
# Habitat retention & creation
# Mallard Breeding programme
# National policy direction not the fragmented approach we have at present individual councils having their own agenda priorities
Just spoke with another young hunter I know (22year old). He's out, just to expensive now......
Agree with Bonecrusher. You can't fix a problem until you know the cause. Research is needed - and not just a token attempt. F&G need to get serious in their attempt to find out why numbers are depleting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonecrusher
The banning of lead shot is just a crock. Heaps more ducks die from predators (hawks, shags, pukeko, stoats etc). Maybe we should ban them. Although I have modified the way I shoot to enable the birds to get closer now that we use steel, I see heaps more wounded ducks from all the surrounding possies. Neil Hayes believes that wounding has gone from 7% with lead, to 50% with steel. While I don't know the accuracy of that statement, just my own observations would back that up.
As Bonecrusher put it:
Research
Habitat
Breeding program
F&G council unity
go backwards 40 years and bring back the acclimatisation societies:wtfsmilie:
Guinea Fowl make for fabulous eating...Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee
Lentil, I have asked and asked, as a result of the expenditure of monies gathered, what constituted 'research'...have never had a reply that was meaningful, deliberate, informative and quite frankly, sincere...I believe that just about every able bodied bird shooter in this country would go out of their way to help in anyway with whatever 'research' was needed to satisfy our queries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lentil
Yes, Bill Spooner, Hawkes Bay, would roll in his grave if he knew how things are now!
F&G seem to be dithering and their staff have vested interests in that big money earner Mr Trout .
I believe the best thing for F&G to do would be to sponsor an independant University graduate who wants a good subject for a doctorial thesis , we would get brains , hard work and published results at the end of it , The researcher would need to be given a ranger warrent , to enable land access etc and be given free and open access to the historical records compiled by Tom Canthesis et all, He/she would need to be able to catch , blood sample , tag and maybe even do necropsies , outside the bird season , without fear of prosecution , etc . And above all be removed from the political bull and influence that seems to infest F&G societies
WAS HE THE GUY THAT RAN THE PHEASANT RELEASE and breeding pozzie on the backroad betweeen hastings and napier??Quote:
Yes, Bill Spooner, Hawkes Bay, would roll in his grave if he knew how things are now!
aparently f&^g have kicked off a major research effort ??im awaiting details from the national office :thumbsup:
Yes thats him, then Roly Bagshaw helped after Bill retired.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsp follower
I did 5yrs as honorary F&G ranger with Bill and 3 with Roly.
this will make you laugh ngai tahu,s only objection to the goose culls here last year was that eels and flounder might ingest the lead shot used :wtfsmilie:
not a word was said about the waterfowl native or otherwise and waders species:pissed off:
Oh pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Talking to a veteran duck campaigner this morning and asked his thoughts on the matter...he says that mallards and spoonies should be off the HB list and teal back on for a season!!
you ever get out patangata /elsthorpe way i was on mangatapiri station out there1977/78
man that was duck heaven with all the dams.
:pissed off:the numbers are still not increasing then that points to something other than lead shot being the issue and research needed to find out what are the real issues. Fish and game???
Stop giving out off season permits if you are so worried :thumbsup:
The real decline is shooting into the breed time and all season with 5, 6,7,8,10,shot Auto's.
The big one is Habitat disappearing with more disturbance in breeding area's and grain feed area's are a lot smaller thats true.
There isn't many people around that would do a six for six on ducks, never mind a 10 for 10!
we need to get duck shooters to have the same mind set as fisherman.when was the last time u heard a fisher brag about geting more than there limit or taking undersize fish?in fact most i fish with impose there own limits size and amount . has probably been the result of heavy policing and people lossing cars/boats but it has worked . maybe fish and game should use there fish officer resources to police duckshooting insteed of the local game officer who does what he can.