Whats your solutions to the duck decline?

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Originally Posted by 30calterry

we need to get duck shooters to have the same mind set as fisherman.when was the last time u heard a fisher brag about geting more than there limit or taking undersize fish?in fact most i fish with impose there own limits size and amount . has probably been the result of heavy policing and people lossing cars/boats but it has worked . maybe fish and game should use there fish officer resources to police duckshooting insteed of the local game officer who does what he can.

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I like your style of thought squire and it certainly does have more than a whiff of good old commonsense about it. furthermore why dont F&G periodically issue license holders a wee questionare on the details of ducks etc in their shooting areas. If this was done province wide and returns collated it may provide insight into the birds lifestyles and habits ,populations etc. take that to a national level and maybe we could end up with some information on why the birds are behaving like they are.

They ring now kotuku for that information, how many they ring I don't know.

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I have not seen the reference you refer to in the H&F catalogue. However, Fish and Game has a national mallard duck research programme that is still in its methodology development stage and is set to run for the next 2-3 years. This will include GPS telemetry (transmitter tracking), defining mallard habitat characteristics for recruitment, standardising monitoring techniques of population change, modelling harvest regulation effectiveness and a citizen science project that will involve members of the public reporting on local brood numbers and survival rates.

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a glimmer of hope from the national councill:yaeh am not durnk:

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Originally Posted by Wirehunt

They ring now kotuku for that information, how many they ring I don't know.

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I've been phoned every season I've had a license during the duck season, and just after the end of it.

six for six on ducks, never mind a 10 for 10! Well I have seen it, but they still have to be able to shoot.:D
If there are, say, three in a mai mai with autos not many that leaves the pond. Say they are 5 shot auto.
There's 15 chances. Old days, just 6 shots to look at it another way.
The kills are up and the numbers down. This has been the trend for a good number of years.
Eastern Otago doesn't grow the grain it did when I was a boy in the early sixties.
Even in those days there was the odd unpinned auto you could hear at first light.
Getting all happy just thinking about it.
By the way, a lot of the ponds I know have four or more shooters. Talk about rape and pillage.:wtfsmilie:
I shoot most of the season and some of the younger people I have met when out jump shooting are always looking for new places to shoot.
Dairy hate the ducks in there water troughs but a lot don't shoot and have put the digger in and put ponds back into land. The activity around these farms
has stuffed up some good hunting ponds and creeks.F&G if they can't see this??? They don't need to spend to look at decline.Habitat Protection & Management money mostly goes to the North Island Look:)http://www.fishandgame.org.nz/sites/...ort%202012.pdf See where your money goes. Try and go past what's in the bank and wages, The big money is on FISH.

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Originally Posted by 30calterry

we need to get duck shooters to have the same mind set as fisherman.when was the last time u heard a fisher brag about geting more than there limit or taking undersize fish?in fact most i fish with impose there own limits size and amount . has probably been the result of heavy policing and people lossing cars/boats but it has worked . maybe fish and game should use there fish officer resources to police duckshooting insteed of the local game officer who does what he can.

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30calterry, all due respect to you, I do not see why duckshooters SHOULD HAVE to be policed in this manner...most have the nouse to understand that every mummy and daddy duck you take out of the equation is less ducklings...good old Mother Commonsense as far as I can see.

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Originally Posted by EeeBees

Commonsense

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Whats that word? :D

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Originally Posted by Toby

Whats that word? :D

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Its not that common Toby

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Originally Posted by EeeBees

30calterry, all due respect to you, I do not see why duckshooters SHOULD HAVE to be policed in this manner...most have the nouse to understand that every mummy and daddy duck you take out of the equation is less ducklings...good old Mother Commonsense as far as I can see.

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so you hav neva heard old duck shooters on established ponds say they get 80/100 opening morning ,i have and when challenged on it they think its their right and others r just bad shooters or we dont know what we are doing or we r jealous ! all due respect eb but if we walk around with our heads in the clouds sayn it doesnt happen and do nothing then thats what we will have!

Pull up here 30c and ask what the limits are in some places. Then realize they can have a limit by 9 and away home leaving all the rest.

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Originally Posted by Wirehunt

Pull up here 30c and ask what the limits are in some places. Then realize they can have a limit by 9 and away home leaving all the rest.

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so you hav neva heard a duck shooter say they hav shot over their limit?

Done it myself.

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Originally Posted by Toby

Whats that word? :D

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Not surprised that someone as young as you hasn't heard of common sense Toby. Unfortunately it died several years ago. Here is the obituary for it

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.

He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as knowing when to come in out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm, why life isn't always fair, and how, on occasion, maybe it was my fault.

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you earn) and reliable parenting strategies (adults, not children are in charge) .

His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a six-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job they themselves failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer aspirin, sun lotion or a sticky plaster to a student; but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the Ten Commandments became contraband; churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims. Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar can sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by three stepbrothers; I Know my Rights, Someone Else is to Blame, and I'm a Victim

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Originally Posted by Wirehunt

Done it myself.

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and whats two reasons u wouldnt take an undersize snapper hm and if u do what is the main thought u have as u pull off the boat ramp in your or your mates car /boat apart from where the chilly bin im out of beer shit its in the boat

Yep. A wise person someplace woke up to the the idea that not only our offshore fisheries were getting done over (and still are I m sure) but
also that the shorelines and just offshore were suffering a battering by folks just taking too many fish.
When living in Wellington we spent every fine weekend ( 2 to 3 a year sometimes he he ) on the boat and always saw a certain type of person filling sacks with as many shellfish as they could
(This 20+ years ago around Port Rd area) Well now they wouldnt get away with it. People do not fish like that unless they are prepared to loose their boats,cars etc.
We ve been pulled up at Cooks Beach and checked at 6.30 am returning after an all nighter at the Mercs and not just once.
Go to the Thames Mussel barges to fish you get stopped at the ramp 9 out of 10 times now.
Its had education and resources thrown at it and also good publised cases where fines and confiscations have been imposed.

They have put a lot of effort into it. Where do you get handed decals for your Mai Mai with bird identifcation, numbers allowed etc like the one you see on most boats freely issued at the
ramps as part of the education process? Our fishing club gives them away at the monthly comp most years plus sizes are slightly higher there than the legal ones to weigh in.

Hard to police duck shooters for sure but IMO its time. Nail the guys taking too many. Educate everyone as to why. Its so the next generation have a sport left to engage in.
I too hear the stories of 100 to 300 between 2 to 3 shooters. In reality a 22 year old said to me at a motocross event two weeks ago they have their 1st ton of maise round the pond
Got the 2nd one ready to go. Should get 200 + plus on opening morning between two of them. Very accomplished shooters he scores 96 out of 100 clay shooting and competes from time to time.
I simply said thats wrong how long do you think you re gonna be albe to do that for ? and he spat the dummy. Wanted a fight and got really loud. His missus had to take him away as she knew he was on the road
to nowhere with me. Buts thats the attuitude. Catch those foccers.Take their guns. Take their vehicles Ban them from Duck Shooting for a year or two.Take their fire arms licences.
They are unfit to have a license as they are breaking the law with it.

A rant but things need to change with all the enviromental changes we cant change this is one thing we could if some resource was thrown at it. :thumbsup:

Rushy you forgot Commonsenses other stepbrother - I want it now. '
You know him when you see him, he's the one standing hanging round the WINZ office because he is too important to actually work.

Can't feed fish and give them the right environment, we look after the ducks a lot in our area. FAR more than f&g ever has, and this also goes for a lot of other people I know. All f&g does is put their hands into our pockets.

In shore fishing, now that is a curly one. But then I've been on the bridge of a sealords boat when they were bitching about have trouble picking up salmon with the electronics. All highly illegal.... What more inshore fish? Tell them to fuck off.

Yep you are on the money there HAPPY with the guys that shoot 100 to 200 bird on opening weekend.I suppose they chuck them in the offal bin afterwards cause one can not eat that many birds.Its the old story that FG are not on the game.Im sure they can track these guys down as there addresses are on there licences but yet again the probably do'nt have one.You just have to watch some of it on youtube of the slaughter

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Originally Posted by Mike H

As we've been bagged in Southland for our approach I'm interested in what you guys think is the answer? I won't be replying in here, just viewing for the hope of some new found knowledge :)

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Research. Info is needed before decisions can be made. Transmitters on ducks? (ie like Sika research) I believe Eastern F&G have started this.
Hunter participation. Involve hunters more. Hunters with a "buy-in" will give a lot more info. As others have said, fisheries have a much better participation by law abiding fishermen. They report poaching etc. Bring back the hunters bag diaries. Although you will get some useful info, I suspect the bigger benefit will be a sense of belonging to a F&G area. Like most bosses know, employees who are involved in the business and decision making (or at least consulted) are much more likely to be more productive and happy. I know most of us are apathetic, but you owe it to the fish and game to get our opinions etc. Everybody has an opinion/suggestion.
Ranging. Don't send rangers to the balloted areas (like where I shoot), unless you hear of over harvesting (you should know which places shoot best). I get checked every year, and it annoys me to think we are just easy targets, and no fear of conflict. Check the big private ponds etc - thats where the over harvesting occurs. Get tough on these bastards.
Finally, thanks for trying something ie.this thread. We need more councillors who will be prepared to get a blast from the public. At least we care enough to reply to you, and obviously you take your role seriously.

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Originally Posted by Lentil

Research. Info is needed before decisions can be made. Transmitters on ducks? (ie like Sika research) I believe Eastern F&G have started this.
Hunter participation. Involve hunters more. Hunters with a "buy-in" will give a lot more info. As others have said, fisheries have a much better participation by law abiding fishermen. They report poaching etc. Bring back the hunters bag diaries. Although you will get some useful info, I suspect the bigger benefit will be a sense of belonging to a F&G area. Like most bosses know, employees who are involved in the business and decision making (or at least consulted) are much more likely to be more productive and happy. I know most of us are apathetic, but you owe it to the fish and game to get our opinions etc. Everybody has an opinion/suggestion.
Ranging. Don't send rangers to the balloted areas (like where I shoot), unless you hear of over harvesting (you should know which places shoot best). I get checked every year, and it annoys me to think we are just easy targets, and no fear of conflict. Check the big private ponds etc - thats where the over harvesting occurs. Get tough on these bastards.
Finally, thanks for trying something ie.this thread. We need more councillors who will be prepared to get a blast from the public. At least we care enough to reply to you, and obviously you take your role seriously.

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+1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. So please forgive my sausage fingers!!!

I've never seen a ranger.

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Originally Posted by Toby

I've never seen a ranger.

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+ 1 and obviously neither have the dudes shooting 2 to 3 hundy opening weekend !!

My real dad has been shooting 30yrs he said hes never seen a ranger either.

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Originally Posted by Toby

My real dad has been shooting 30yrs he said hes never seen a ranger either.

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But I ve seen and been spoken to by the Fish pigs heaps of times scuse my description whatever they are called
They have always been polite and no they have never had probs with our catches

I have been seen by doc rangers once while white baiting. They suck ass coming up on their boat interrupting me but I like that they were out checking people on the river. More of this should be happening in our small town.

I would like to know just what the cowboys do with 100 or 200 ducks...I sure hope they show enough respect to the birds to eat them...

edited to add...and I suppose these very people would be the first to wah wah about DOC doing one of their search and destroy in choppers on the deer or anything else on four feet lurking in the wilds...

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Originally Posted by Toby

I've never seen a ranger.

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We see them every other year or so. Gotta make sure they have ripped the money out of our pockets.

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Originally Posted by EeeBees

edited to add...and I suppose these very people would be the first to wah wah about DOC doing one of their search and destroy in choppers on the deer or anything else on four feet lurking in the wilds...

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Yes well. they are fuckwits, or at least their bosses are. But rather see that than the green rain they much prefer......

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Originally Posted by Tussock

Waterways are heavily polluted around here. Where I used to swim regularly 10 years ago, I now won't take the dog. Stinks too much on the return trip.

The lead thing was undoubtedly a beat up, there are probably only a couple of applicable locations in NZ. What access do birds have to lead that falls in the Waitaki? None. It's a fast flowing, braided river system. What it does exposé shooters to is a lot of tempting birds at questionable ranges. As above, I have watched a tremendous amount of wounding with steel, and these birds if they glide out and get caught in the current are beyond any dogs ability to recover them.

As for heavy metals,since when did we worry about that in NZ? Superphosphate contains cadmium, and cadmium makes lead look like something you would spread on your cereal. Your average dairy farm could no longer be zoned residential, the heavy metals content of the soil (cadmium) would exceed the acceptable cut offs. In time, it will exceed the cut offs for agricultural production, some properties may have already.

I would imagine the destruction of habitat is the major issue. Again, look at the Waitaki. The river used to be a large main channel which changed constantly, then a few hundred meters either side with stable backwaters in amongst the vegetation. These did not change year to year and they were breeding areas for who knows how many ducks and trout. They are mostly gone now. They have all been converted to dairy. There is a narrow sprayed out strip for the main stream, then dairy right up to the edge. What few backwaters that remain are fouled. Just disgusting. Choked with stinking mud and weed. Much of that land that was converted to dairy, is DOC administered land.

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A lot of work going on in the USA, UK and Europe about this. UK for example has really recognised that super-phosphates and intensive farming has drained wetlands, changed water ph and general habitat loss. Reading the posts people are saying this has gone nuts here over the last 10-20yrs. I suppose that is correlated to population expansion, industrial scale dairy farming, increase in immigration and tourism which in turn results in the same issues the UK has suffered from. In UK they are breeding and releasing ducks, establishing private ponds, reflooding dams and really big into game management as a result.

the biggest indictment on this current governments attitude to pollution is the 400 million irrigation fun looking to double farming out puts . compared to the 40 million to clean up the mess of intensive farming and town and other business waste.over the whole country.??20 million of that was only put up this week for our 4 worst polluted areas waituna te waihora kaipara and i just forget the other.:pissed off:

I would argue that the USA treats it's land worse. We may not like irrigated dairy farming but at least the cows are outside eating grass. In the states they are locked up in intensive feeding units fed corn and antibiotics. You can just imagine the effluent stream coming out of one of those places and the insecticides they dump on the farms in order to grow the corn in the first place. NZ is better although I would agree it's still not good.

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Originally Posted by MassiveAttack

I would argue that the USA treats it's land worse. We may not like irrigated dairy farming but at least the cows are outside eating grass. In the states they are locked up in intensive feeding units fed corn and antibiotics. You can just imagine the effluent stream coming out of one of those places and the insecticides they dump on the farms in order to grow the corn in the first place. NZ is better although I would agree it's still not good.

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you dont have to imagine massive just take a look at wakanui east of ashburton lovely idealic spot apart from the crap bieng pumped into the sea:XD:
a feedlot perhaps not on a yank scale but gettin there:roll: