Thread: Will 2017 be the last of lead in the sub-gauges

After looking thru the Fish and Game report for the coming season, gives me reason to believe that next year will be the last for lead in sub-gauges. Anyone know what's in the pipeline, was looking at a 20g Benelli, but are having second thoughts.

Originally Posted by tetawa

After looking thru the Fish and Game report for the coming season, gives me reason to believe that next year will be the last for lead in sub-gauges. Anyone know what's in the pipeline, was looking at a 20g Benelli, but are having second thoughts.

wouldnt be holding my breath -this has been in the pot for many a year and frankly IMHO will remain so.unless of course some subservient F&G crew go grazing on the front lawn of maggie the denizen of the dahlias!!there is at least one whose claim to fame would be this accomplishment.selfish but egotistical that.

Yep it seems f and g intend to be in the good books of maggie and are going to push for that.
You have the choice of not taking your licence for next year and writing to them why you do so. You can also write to your local mp.

Originally Posted by Friwi

Yep it seems f and g intend to be in the good books of maggie and are going to push for that.
You have the choice of not taking your licence for next year and writing to them why you do so. You can also write to your local mp.

doesnt worry me -ima 12g user anyhow ,but i do shoot with 20g users.F&G could do well to canvas them for their thoughts,as a bloody lot of F&G activity is paid for by shooters fees.
ive also got a sneaking feeling this may be related to the rest of this govts review of firearms regulations and the act.

same old same old there be poor supply of the over heavy loads at exzorbitant prices in the wrong shot sizes.
nothing will be learned from the bigger gauges in evidence i give yopu the only available option 3 inch black cloud 2,s

probably see if i can get fosters to bring in some hull 20 steel

Originally Posted by kotuku

wouldnt be holding my breath -this has been in the pot for many a year and frankly IMHO will remain so.unless of course some subservient F&G crew go grazing on the front lawn of maggie the denizen of the dahlias!!there is at least one whose claim to fame would be this accomplishment.selfish but egotistical that.

An article in a recent Dominion said Key rated Barry as one of his best MP's. Just shows how out of touch Key is with the community.Key would make Obama sound mono syllabic.

An article in a recent Dominion said Key rated Barry as one of his best MP's.

thats not saying much but compared to judith collins or hekia she,s a rocket scientist.

ive decided not to wait and am putting in motion a order with hulls agent for a slab or 3 of thier 20 gauge 24gram 1400fps load in 4,s and /or 5,s.
cos 3 inch 2,s are shit mallard and parry ammo and they defeat the purpose of using a 20 anyway.
[lighter wieght, same basic effective shot wieghts with less sholder hammer]

Barry said she had received correspondence suggesting recreational hunters may be increasingly using sub-gauge guns for hunting waterfowl to circumvent the efforts to minimise the use of lead shot in and around waterways.

Southland Fish & Game manager Zane Moss said each Fish & Game council in New Zealand had to vote whether to ban lead shot in their area.

The Southland council has accepted the Minister's invitation to bring consideration of the sub-gauge exemption forward to this year and has recommended a staged transition away from the use of lead in sub-gauges, providing a continued exemption for .410s.

Moss said the Southland council has recommended a four-year transition period but the decision would be made by the New Zealand council.

no prizes for guessin who,s been pissin in her ear couldnt get thier own way democraticly so weaselin round and back stabbin thier licence buyers.
i mean theyre dealin with the right party for that but you.d of thought thier diminshed vote would have encouraged them to turn over a new leaf.
but no once zealots always zealots i guess.

0ct 26th
Can I still use lead with my 20 gauge?
Yes, the ban applies to 10 and 12 gauge. The exemption remains for smaller gauge guns. For those people who wish to continue hunting using muzzle loading guns, regional Fish and Game Councils will consider applications for an exemption to allow the continued use of lead shot for those guns on a case by case and gun specific basis.

so far nothing knew

Leave the sub gauges alone please.

My view is that the large steel shot cartridges and the large semi-autos that go with them are unethical and detract from the ethos and traditions of wildfowl hunting.

All very well for Southland to pontificate. They have had and still have the most dense duck population in NZ. However, up here in Reporoa, which used to be world famous for its wildfowl hunting it is a fact that since the introduction of steel shot we are now devolving into a situation where F&G is mooting a total ban on duck shooting because the population is so low.

F&G and Waikato Regional Council also failed to make any significant attempt to support NZ Wildfowlers Assn and other wildfowlers in ensuring full protection of the upper Waikato river wetlands from the 13 ft ramping of the river proposed (and ultimately allowed) over a decade ago by Mighty River Power right from the RMA hearings which has resulted in the ruination of hundreds of acres of riverine wetland habitat by repeated flooding and drying of habitat, wetland, vegetation and nests.

The decline of duck and swan as well as bitterns, marsh crakes, banded rails, pukeko and grey / black duck, many associated swamp margin birds such as grey warbler and fern birds and groves of manuka and kanuka and other margin vegetation communities was all predicted and identified by NZ Wildfowlers Assn during the RMA hearings ( and I was a major author of those submissions) All these destructions were predicted as outcomes but ignored and or overridden by Sir Peter Tapsell and the submission hearings panel he chaired at the RMA consent hearings. WANZ felt very alone without the full backing and support of Waikato Regional Council and F&G at those hearings over a decade ago. Even DoC did next to nothing to support the wetlands.

Now WRC are increasing all our rates , supposedly to protect the upper Waikato catchment. What a crock of bullshit! They actually ABANDONED years ago, the original catchment protection rules such that they now have had no way of prosecuting land developers who cause mass siltation of the upper river and tributaries!

Now the Southlanders look like they are going even further along with the government to kill what is left of wildfowling in NZ.

Oh, buts its all OK folks, We''ll just blame duck hunters and lead shot. FFS.

doc and f&G, IN some regions,ARE SO INTERTWINED AND CO OPTED NOW ONES AS BAD AS THE OTHER.
but for certain southland zealots to push this cos of hubris is at odds with a lot of the good work they do down there.
thier case is blown out of the water by the shear numbers of waterfowl they have tho i note good goosehunting stories are few and far between now.
in pushing the lead subgauge myths they undo any goodwill they,ve build up thru habitat protection and water advocacy.
doc are really a pack of wankers .
if they bring in rules which are at odds with f&g rules thier excuse is dont look at us iwi need to be consulted to change them.
to which most of us would just throw up our hands and give up.
i predict the rakaia river to be the next major battleground a lot of damage is already done but there are now people who want to cut off a certain access route because hunters and guys sighting in thier rifles are scareing them when they go for a walk.
i also had a spirited discussion with a owner blaming private hunters for a 1080 incident which killed thier dog .
to which replied private fur gathers dont use 1080 because they cant recover the skins/fur.
''oh no thats not right'' she raved ''the council doc and ecan said it twerent them''

Been a while since I've been on here and noticed this post. Just to clarify this was not started by Southland Fish and Game or anyone associated with it. It was initiated by a letter from a private individual to the minister as far as I know. I won't name him here sorry but I'm sure if you've got the will it won't be hard to find. The minister has written to the NZ Council who then wrote to the regions for our comments on the ministers letter.

Here's a link to our minutes where it was discussed. You can see what the minister asked us and how we answered: http://southland.fishandgame.org.nz/...ust%202016.pdf

Its now with the NZ Council to make a final decision in December. I'm not going to be back on here for a while yet so no point asking me for more than what I've just given sorry.

Having read the parts of the meeting minutes relating to the steel shot issue I have this comment to make.

That NZF&G and Southland F&G and other regions need to remember the unwarranted actions taken by the previous Minister of DoC (Kate Wilkinson) in removing Canada Geese from being a managed game bird over the whole of NZ.

That edict by DoC was at the behest of vested interests which while being negatively affected by the geese in limited areas of NZ, by lobbying the anti gun and anti hunting Department of "Conservation" that undemocratic and overbearing government agency proceeded forthwith to negatively impact upon all wildfowl hunters in our country.

DoC is an unreasonable overbearing bullying anti hunting and anti introduced game animals and birds self serving bureaucracy and IMHO all F&G regional Councils and NZ F&G Councils, (non of which are funded by treasury at all , let alone to the tune of $100 million dollars like DoC is); tell DoC to PULL THEIR BLOODY HEADS IN.

Just because some parts of the world like for example beheading persons who disagree with their politics or religions it should never follow that New Zealanders accept others mantra's as justification to impose such an ultimatum as Minister Barry and her DoC staff have imposed on our (non government funded) wildfowl managers; I.E. prove to DoC the others in some parts of the world are wrong or else!

As we found with the Geese, being "nice" and "diplomatic" with DoC does us no dammed good at all.

Please note in my earlier post, it is not just the ducks that have GONE in our area. Practically ALL the indigenous waterfowl and wildfowl have gone in the SAME TIME PERIOD.

They darned well did NOT die of lead shot for God's sake! They died out because of government and regional council RMA edicts with tacit" DO NOTHING TO STOP THE DAMAGE", COURTESY OF DEPARTMENT OF "CONSERVATION" . In this process they ignored the information and recommendations of long experiences conservation minded wildfowlers the core of whom were very well qualified to make those recommendations aimed at preserving all the environments within and adjacent to the upper Waikato river and it's wetlands.

Are we going to be so darned STUPID and roll over for them again?

Its now with the NZ Council to make a final decision in December. I'm not going to be back on here for a while yet so no point asking me for more than what I've just given sorry]

no surprises there mike you didnt even consult your own licence buyers till told to why would you explain yourself now.
you must be on crack if you think we believe one person could get these clowns to change anything.
while you and the rest of the cargo cult said nothing and kept your obsession quiet.
pull the other one it plays dixie.
oh hang on was he rich, big landowner, overseas invester, middle eastern shiek??

They darned well did NOT die of lead shot for God's sake! They died out because of government and regional council RMA edicts with tacit" DO NOTHING TO STOP THE DAMAGE", COURTESY OF DEPARTMENT OF "CONSERVATION" . In this process they ignored the information and recommendations of long experiences conservation minded wildfowlers the core of whom were very well qualified to make those recommendations aimed at preserving all the environments within and adjacent to the upper Waikato river and it's wetlands.

Are we going to be so darned STUPID and roll over for them again?

dont worry mate you can shoot them on preserves by now.
ducks dont make as much money as milk and meat.
by the time docs finished there,l be none of you nasty guntotin types disturbing thier sandal wearing romp thr thier idea of nz bush and wetlands.
look at what the cheeky bastards did down south with that wetland supposed to be for duck and waterfowl hunters in perpetuity.
now suddenly its 5 shoots a season and bloody ngat tahu own it howd that happen.

Question from the floor...hypothetically, if the ban comes to pass, please tell me what I do with my 20g lead ammunition...will the provender take it back...? will we have to surrender it? Or is this too far down the track not to mean anything at this time...