Thread: 1080 KILLING FISH

Really enjoying this read Thanks you knowledgeable persons

[QUOTE=R93;300396]That's one bird that seems to thrive on the coast considering all the local and regular poisoning. No idea why.
There are trees in kowhitirangi that you can count literally hundreds in, when they are budding.
Anyone one heard about the Glenorchy poison.
Smashed an already under threat whitetail herd.
Its gotta stop. You see ads in our paper here with "Save our birds" heading all the poison notifications in local notices and papers. Kids at school are being desensitized to 1080 as well.
[QUOTE]

Pigeons, tui, bellbirds, don't do to bad under the 1080 regime as they are fruit, nectar, leaf, flower grazers. The insect, seed eaters and those that hunt in the forest or eat carrion are the ones that are going missing at an alarming rate.

The Glenorcy Whitetail herd has taken a hiding alright. A scientist led a group including DOC personal into the drop zone on a fact finding mission after the drop. They found four dead whitetail, one possum and one mouse in a 4 square kilometre area grid searched.

Correct me if I am wrong, maths is not a strong point of mine. But the block poisoned is 20,000 hectares so that equates to a loss of around 50 whitetail if you were to equate the losses over the whole area.

This is not verified yet but DOC exercised quite a bit of control over the story that was released. IE, DOC are satisfied that only a small number of whitetail deer were killed) But what has not been quantified yet is the number of dead native birds found dead in the grid search.

Originally Posted by Mauser308

I think it's stunning how silent the pro-poison types have got just recently.

I am the first to agree that we cannot leave our native flora and fauna unprotected, however what we are doing now (ecocide) is a bit like burning down the house because you can't be arsed doing the dishes...

If any private individual went to get approval to drop a poison product in a completely uncontrolled way over public-access areas we would get laughed out of dodge.

Areas of Europe still use small amounts of 1080 but only in a completely sealed, controlled environment like a warehouse - all baits counted in and out, all carcasses removed and destroyed purely because of the vector control factors - i.e. you can't control what happens to animals downstream if you don't recover the carcasses.

I can't believe what we do with this particular toxin - after all it's been identified in the US as a potential terrorism risk due to the toxin's longevity in water (theoretically you could dump it into municipal water supplies and off an entire city).

Seriously, there has to be a better way.

And, cost be dammed - I for one would forgo tax cuts to put boots on the ground instead of airdropping that crap. And, if we stop poisoning and start recovering carcasses (in the larger models) that meat is completely recoverable for animal/pet food uses or even human consumption. Not so much after a poison drop...

I like this post 'Mauser' Understand we are not looking to pick a fight with the pro 1080 members, but are simply responding to a challenge by one of them to provide proof of our claims that 1080 is a bloody dirty way to treat our forests, birds, fish and animals.

I reckon 50 whitetail would be conservative.
50 is way to much at any rate considering the state of the herd prior to the drop.

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Originally Posted by Mauser308

I think it's stunning how silent the pro-poison types have got just recently.

I am the first to agree that we cannot leave our native flora and fauna unprotected, however what we are doing now (ecocide) is a bit like burning down the house because you can't be arsed doing the dishes...

If any private individual went to get approval to drop a poison product in a completely uncontrolled way over public-access areas we would get laughed out of dodge.

Areas of Europe still use small amounts of 1080 but only in a completely sealed, controlled environment like a warehouse - all baits counted in and out, all carcasses removed and destroyed purely because of the vector control factors - i.e. you can't control what happens to animals downstream if you don't recover the carcasses.

I can't believe what we do with this particular toxin - after all it's been identified in the US as a potential terrorism risk due to the toxin's longevity in water (theoretically you could dump it into municipal water supplies and off an entire city).

Seriously, there has to be a better way.

And, cost be dammed - I for one would forgo tax cuts to put boots on the ground instead of airdropping that crap. And, if we stop poisoning and start recovering carcasses (in the larger models) that meat is completely recoverable for animal/pet food uses or even human consumption. Not so much after a poison drop...

Being an atheist its odd to use a bible quote but......
Answer not a fool according to his folly. Do not lower yourself to the fool's level by answering his silly questions or arguing with him as if he were a sensible man. Lest thou also be like unto him; lest you be led to utter folly yourself or to side with him in his opinions and practices.

Fellas, Ive got more in this that most of you.
I'm an active hunter, I enjoy venison as much as the next man. I'm in the same boat as the bulk of us too as I (prefer) to hunt public land.
I'm also a keen fly fisher. Have been since I could ride a bicycle too (@Rushy).
I have three awesome little girls who always ask for me to take them out into the wilds to chase beast or fish.
So far the only really worthy replies have come from @Aly who at least has attempted to offer a solution. Will she be the only one?
Harping on about someone who accidentally poisoned himself nearly 50 years ago has no relevance what so ever. Had he ingested cyanide, brodi or anything else the end result will have been the same unfortunately. How a jar of jam in the blokes house has any relevance is beyond me or did it fall from a hell bucket into his jam jar?
Then theres the tin foil hat brigade. Claiming mass corruption, backhanders and laziness as the root of the problem. Seriously? DOC are currently removing huts, deferring track maintenance and laying off staff simply because they have no money. Ive actually taken the time to talk to some of these guys and they have more passion for our forest than most anti hand-wringers combined. As an ex NZDA president Ive also spoken to a number of people at both our local AHB and DOC. These guys have tried desperately to get trapping going to limit the use of aerial 1080. The did make some headway in the Whirinaki/Te Urewera in conjunction with a local tribe but even this was initially marginally successful but eventually failed. This is relatively easy country with a more temperate climate. Hows APNP or other high altitude country going to really sustain trapping.
I dearly would love to see 1080 taken off the menu but having an anti group hug online is not the solution. Personally I hope we can either modify possum behaviour through either a GM solution or organic option (disease/parasite/virus) but thats a whole new Pandoras box.
Cost be damned? Bull shit I say. The NZ taxpayer is bled enough at present and will not carry any more than it has already.
1080 certainly has some collateral damage and I too am impacted by it but, its a burden Im willing to carry if it means in 10 or so years I can take my kids out to see what I see now it will be worth it.
On a side note. I see very few outside of the hunting community belly aching about 1080. Maybe its the circles I hang in? Ive often heard the excuse of 1080 being the reason why the "hunter" had no luck. Haha what a piss poor excuse. Get the can of V out of your hand, lose the tyre round your gut and get on with it. Most deer don't get a good feed within 10m of the carpark fella.
Deer by-kill we need to pull our head in on. They don't stop breeding and at present its almost stupid the amount of donks around.
Deer repellant? yeah good idea. Maybe those of us in NZDA need to put a poker up the clowns who represent us to accept the realities of the situation. NATEX opposal of aerial poisons is unrealistic. Swallow their pride and get some concessions rather than none. Who of us has written a submission for deer repellant anyway? I have, bet most of you haven't.
I've been hunting and fishing both sides of our local ranges (Ruahine and Kaweka) and eating what Ive taken regularly. These ranges see their fair share of 1080 too. Am I concerned? Not really. So why now with the dog and pony show?

Deer repellent, Bird repellent????.... none of it works. How about now we try cattle repellent, Sheep repellent or even Fish Repellent now

KJ I look at from the point of view it is just plain wrong to dose the country side with 1080. I can only come to the conclusion it is driven by money. There are many other ways that could be developed to control pests we do not desire! there is not the will, it needs an independent inquiry.

Our local NZDA is starting to get a reasonable relationship with doc @rogers.270, And doc have even footed the bill to fly in large numbers of recreational hunters into ares they believe have high numbers of deer/goats etc.
The problems I personally have with 1080 are mainly that, when I walk threw never 1080d bush with a fair few possums/stoats/rats/mice the bird life is incredible.when I walk threw regularly 1080d bush it is literally dead, very little to no bird life.
Also as a hunter and conservationist I struggle to see the logic that our slow breeding native birds will recover from their by kill when the rats and mice will be back next year.
And its bloody inhumane, its a terrible death.

Originally Posted by R93

Anyone one heard about the Glenorchy poison.
Smashed an already under threat whitetail herd.
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Dead deer found after 1080 drop | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News

On the radio

Trout and 1080 poison - David Haynes | Afternoons, 2:07 pm on 30 September 2014 | Radio New Zealand

Originally Posted by kiwijames

Being an atheist its odd to use a bible quote but......
Answer not a fool according to his folly. Do not lower yourself to the fool's level by answering his silly questions or arguing with him as if he were a sensible man. Lest thou also be like unto him; lest you be led to utter folly yourself or to side with him in his opinions and practices.

Fellas, Ive got more in this that most of you.
I'm an active hunter, I enjoy venison as much as the next man. I'm in the same boat as the bulk of us too as I (prefer) to hunt public land.
I'm also a keen fly fisher. Have been since I could ride a bicycle too (@Rushy).
I have three awesome little girls who always ask for me to take them out into the wilds to chase beast or fish.
So far the only really worthy replies have come from @Aly who at least has attempted to offer a solution. Will she be the only one?
Harping on about someone who accidentally poisoned himself nearly 50 years ago has no relevance what so ever. Had he ingested cyanide, brodi or anything else the end result will have been the same unfortunately. How a jar of jam in the blokes house has any relevance is beyond me or did it fall from a hell bucket into his jam jar?
Then theres the tin foil hat brigade. Claiming mass corruption, backhanders and laziness as the root of the problem. Seriously? DOC are currently removing huts, deferring track maintenance and laying off staff simply because they have no money. Ive actually taken the time to talk to some of these guys and they have more passion for our forest than most anti hand-wringers combined. As an ex NZDA president Ive also spoken to a number of people at both our local AHB and DOC. These guys have tried desperately to get trapping going to limit the use of aerial 1080. The did make some headway in the Whirinaki/Te Urewera in conjunction with a local tribe but even this was initially marginally successful but eventually failed. This is relatively easy country with a more temperate climate. Hows APNP or other high altitude country going to really sustain trapping.
I dearly would love to see 1080 taken off the menu but having an anti group hug online is not the solution. Personally I hope we can either modify possum behaviour through either a GM solution or organic option (disease/parasite/virus) but thats a whole new Pandoras box.
Cost be damned? Bull shit I say. The NZ taxpayer is bled enough at present and will not carry any more than it has already.
1080 certainly has some collateral damage and I too am impacted by it but, its a burden Im willing to carry if it means in 10 or so years I can take my kids out to see what I see now it will be worth it.
On a side note. I see very few outside of the hunting community belly aching about 1080. Maybe its the circles I hang in? Ive often heard the excuse of 1080 being the reason why the "hunter" had no luck. Haha what a piss poor excuse. Get the can of V out of your hand, lose the tyre round your gut and get on with it. Most deer don't get a good feed within 10m of the carpark fella.
Deer by-kill we need to pull our head in on. They don't stop breeding and at present its almost stupid the amount of donks around.
Deer repellant? yeah good idea. Maybe those of us in NZDA need to put a poker up the clowns who represent us to accept the realities of the situation. NATEX opposal of aerial poisons is unrealistic. Swallow their pride and get some concessions rather than none. Who of us has written a submission for deer repellant anyway? I have, bet most of you haven't.
I've been hunting and fishing both sides of our local ranges (Ruahine and Kaweka) and eating what Ive taken regularly. These ranges see their fair share of 1080 too. Am I concerned? Not really. So why now with the dog and pony show?

You seem quite proud to try to have taken the poor attitude to other contributing members of this forum, judging by the overall tone of your post. That is something I think you need to look inwards about.

Your quote re deer repellent above shows how narrow and flawed your ideas are and in fact you have not provided a single verifiable fact to back any of your opinions.

Deer repellent, even if it worked, does not protect anything else in the environment from the deleterious effects of 1080 poison. Your controlling body NATEX at least has the common sense to comprehend this fact and realise that to support the usually ineffective deer repellent also meant supporting the serious by-kill and general harm to the environment that 1080 poison use creates.

I suggest to you and others who want to know more about the detail and facts go visit the websites
1080science.co.nz
www.1080.org.nz

Cheers

To hell with other arguments do we have the right to kill these animals in such an Inhumane fashion.
A deer takes around 2 to 3 days to die from 1080 poisoning. A traumatic death as evidence shows.
The top animals has been poisoned. The experience show in its eyes.
The bottom photo.. The deer has been shot

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Top..The lungs of a deer that died of 1080 poisoning

Bottom... The lungs of a deer that has been shot.

My best mate is a vet. Has been for 30 yrs. He hates 1080 but reckons it just makes quadrapeds lie down and go to sleep.
After a drop in the Landsborough in 2005 I was up doing a job. I was there 2 days after the drop. I seen 9 dead deer out on river flats.
Seen a hind and a yearling lying side by side in the middle of one flat. Looked like they were out having a munch and just tipped over dead.
A week prior to the drop we seen over 40 deer out on the same flat.
The Landsborough has never recovered from that drop imo as far as deer go.

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Right on