Originally were wild fish and thru 70s/80s ish supplemented by Acclimatisation Society (Now F&G) stripping eggs from wild fish and hatching them / returning smolt to rivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Schmo
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Originally were wild fish and thru 70s/80s ish supplemented by Acclimatisation Society (Now F&G) stripping eggs from wild fish and hatching them / returning smolt to rivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Schmo
Quote: As someone who dedicated his life to salmonids
Blowhard!!
Reminds me of the blokes down at ..Buoy 10…. Reckless… unforgiving!!
I’ve met and fished with @Joeschmo and think that the above is as far from the truth as possible, I’d call him a bloody top bloke, with a passion for all fisheries and the outdoors.Quote:
Originally Posted by A330driver
Most certainly disagree with him by all means ……..but a “blowhard” he certainly isn’t.
They released salmon into some of the Kaikoura streams a few years ago and folks are catching them whilst Kawahai fishing off the beaches now , if they will return to the release streams to spawn remains to be seen, I certainly hope so.
Our salmon came from the Sacramento river. There were 5 importations between 1901 and 1907 so I guess they were not commercial / hatchery (as we know it now) fish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Schmo
Perhaps you should check his credentials before passing judgement.Quote:
Originally Posted by A330driver
November 2000 i caught my 29 pounder up the rangi about 8ks from the mouth.Day befor a guy from Rangiora caught a fish about the same size from the same pool.Buitifull fish with some power,i had to be carefull with only 18lb line on my 7ft rod.But i had plenty of room to play him out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanium
Lived at Rangiata Huts on North Side 1991-1993. The fish runs were starting to lessen by then.
Last Salmon I caught in 2000 just before moving to Nelson was 28lb just below the Main road bridge.
Caught one last year in Feb, below Rakaia Gorge bridge after a day and 1/2's effort, was 12lb.
Going to try again later this month or next.
Dads best fish was Jack, 40lb10oz caught above the Rakaia Gorge bridge in the 80's. At the time it was estimated to be just over 60lb when it entered the River from the sea. Whether that is true or not I don't know but it was in such poor condition it got dug in the garden.
I know some go years without catching one or even catch very few over their fishing careers, but for me I had very good teachers and seem to have good luck when chasing them.
Yrs ago i had a scrap book with photos from news papers articals on salmon from our Southisland rivers.One photo i had was of a 57lb salmon caught in the Rakaia just below the main road bridge.Not sure of the yr,about in the early 70s i think.Fish was silver as a doller in buitifull condition.I had photos of 44,46,and 48 pounders out of the Waitaki.All photos were cuts outs from our local new papers.The scrap book got biffed out when shifting,i sure not by me tho.
In the Glenavy pub in Mervs photo cabnet diplay.Theres an old photo on me with a 13lb trout,i caught on a 6wt sage fly rod in the Tekapo river way back in the late 70s.Buitifull fish caught on a pheasant tail nymph,a battle il
never forget.No salmon farms around in those days,only real wild fish.
Perhaps both those statements are true!! :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by A330driver
how were they origonally wild fish??? they had to come from somewhere to begin with.....Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee
now if only the biggest fish were used as donors would it not counteract the argument of poor genetics??? I seem to recall something similar done with trout in Taupo some years back...
I would suspect from what I saw on hatchery "open days" when I was a kid, any hand male fish got mixed with any handy female fish! That was about the extent of any genetic "selection"Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
so Dads fish was huge.......the genetics were there...not all the big ones were caught,the genetics must still be there....use their milt and eggs in hatchery and see if in 10-15 years we are gaining......Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee
kind of like what happens when we shoot the best stags while still in velvet and leave the dregs to do the funky chicken with the hinds then...Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee
yet we still see some absolute crackers turn up in any season with decent tucker after a year with less pressure.....
Attachment 240842
Heres a few from when I was a kid - probably 70's vintage. Top left is my 32 lb'er, all from Rakaia where we had a bach
6 Fish was a limit bag on any day, then it was reduced to 4 in about 73/74???. Biggest fish I ever saw caught was in the surf at the mouth weighing 42lb. Not a long fish but incredibly deep.
Reason I remember it so well is because the guy went home to Ashburton and put his photo on the front page of the paper. For the next couple of weeks every man and his dog was at the mouth so not even standing room like before
Seems unbelievable now but salmon in the 25 - 35 lb range were pretty common
Salmon egg milk shakes.Seagulls loved them when the bucket got accidently knocked over.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee
Nice old photos Boss,thanks.
Favourite lure for salmon and fly?
I have a photo somewhere of the ol man with his 40lbs 1 caught 30min b4 the rakaia fishing comp from memory over all prize was a 4wlr would have won it 2
Silver zeddy would have accounted for a very large proportion of salmon caught in NZ waters [emoji106]Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharki
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Most of the river salmon I have caught have had a silver spoon in their mouths. Although the last one was on a lumo soft bait.
Yes or white or fluorescent orange or green although the last one I caught last year was on an American Import :DQuote:
Originally Posted by kukuwai
Blue fox??Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee
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Yip, Colorado Spoon or silver zeddy with a bit of red. A silver ticer for out in the surf
The old man used to make his own lures (feathered) with a fairly substantial hook
Attachment 240856Quote:
Originally Posted by kukuwai
Sure looks deadly [emoji3]Quote:
Originally Posted by mikee
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It was explained to me thus by a mate who did his masters thesis on NZ salmon with a view on the sports fishery not the commercial fishery ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Duck
One of the issues with hatchery v wild fish is that hatchery fish are very used to living very close to each other and the competition between themselves is very intense, wild salmon not so. So we have juvenile hatchery and wild salmon coming down the river together and inevitably they will shoal up and or interact with each other. There is a favoured rock to sit behind on the journey down the river.. the hatchery fish are comfortable being cheek to jowl with each other the wild fish not so and so the wild fish are the first to be expelled from behind the favoured rock and are more exposed to predation and less feed coming past..
What it means is that those genetics that had adapted to our rivers are now no longer an advantage in fact they are a hinderance to survival ..
Oh it was the "lucky lure" for sure! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by kukuwai
Just like youtube then Bos [emoji23]Quote:
Originally Posted by Bos
Great photos, cheers for that. There are a few similar floating about in our family from the clutha and even the makarora (before they dammed the clutha)... Imagine that !!!
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Use to make all my own zeddys,spoons and ticers out of hex brass.Power houses use to have a lot of copper earth strapping left over to make zeddys out of.Get them plated in Timaru bottom of north street.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bos
Makarora a great river mouth for night fishing years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by kukuwai
Still got the zeddy on my truck keys that I caught my 29 lb salmon on.
Attachment 240858
Not very silver ne more.lols
Super true on the density issue of H vs W sore head
I reckon the other side of the coin is that hatchery fish have been packed into a raceway and only know... "food" "pellet" movement above..."food" "pellet" so they ain't exactly street smart
However wild fish are dodging and weaving and hunting from the day they're born so they're tough...however they're also usually smaller.
There's a gigantic (several million tagged) study that looks at whether it's better to transport fish to the ocean (estuary), thus avoiding predation, or let them travel in the river and tough it out and learn and have the weak ones picked off...turns out yes it's better for overall smolt survival to transport em and yes run of the river fish survive better to adults. Classic Catch22, laterally depends on what time (day) of year they are transported, river flow, etc.
To get back to the subject...I can't imagine catching a chinook 100m from the salt as y'all do here!! They're BEAUTIFUL!!!
I think our biggest issue is the ocean temperature. These are cold water fish and our ocean is warming quickly.
well I do know that 34 years ago when I first came to Timaru...at certain times of the year,smaller salmon were being caught from the wharves in town....happened in Dunedin too... doesnt happen anymore...the run of hatchery released/bred fish just isnt there anymore to be caught.
had an early fishing magazine with huge catch limits ...the ashburton river at one point has traps in it to kill off the trout for benifit of the salmon... oh how times change.Ive only caught one river run salmon and that was just below the opuha dam weir..on 5lb nylon and a yellow veltic spinner while after trout...it had got as far upstream as it could go.... the Waitaki river doesnt have the same uninterupted flow from mountains to the sea anymore. but we all like to have light and hot water at flick of switch or turn of tap...progress=change,some good some bad and some ugly.
You could be right. From memory the salmon smolt I saw released were quite small, 2 inches in length. All were about that size give or takeQuote:
Originally Posted by Joe Schmo
I’ve met more people than a bull can shit that have “pronounced “ an affirmation that they have salmon at there heart… and then said:::,they take the data with a grain of salt etc etc….Really???… they know more???… with “his” resources and go there??… I don’t give a shit weather he’s a good cunt….or not…. I’ve fished the same rivers .. taken plenty of salmon and still do…
The fact is these agencies ,with limited resources,are trying to replenish the stocks through a programme that is having to deal with a lot of issues.. most in todays world are insurmountable… I’ve seen fishermen disregard all laws regarding the taking of “legal” salmon based upon the season…
The dam blocking of the Columbia and many other rivers has changed the dynamics of many issues relating to salmon…. The measure of success is if we all abide by what we know and do…. Not a grain of salt because if these fishermen were worth there salt then they would be in charge..period!!
well there is one less "fisherman disreguarding laws" in this district as of last season.......
you can hardly call setting a gill net across river mouth during wee small hours either sporting or ethical...and NO the person involved wasnt of native decent either...but I guess you could say the fishes had the last laugh considering how it ended up.
yip thats callous and shows little compassion......but as Forest Gump said when stepped in pile of steaming doggy doodooh "it happens"
poetic justice some might say.
Ocean conditions are such a major player. It's not that ocean conditions get overlooked but it's still amazing to think of all the work we do for salmon(ids) in the freshwater system when they spend 70-80ish percent of their lives in the salt. Not that there isn't work done in the salt but it's a small percentage of the total work for sure.
Not salt related. This has always been a sweet salmon graphic for me...the inverse relationship between the number of fish and survival of fish. Again the Catch-22...more fish/lower survival/smaller fish vs fewer fish/higher survival/bigger fish. Cool snapshot either way.
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