PRICE INCREASE

Hasn't taken long for the sports retailers to start warning of price increases with the $ dropping, didn't see any price reductions when the $ was up in the 80's.

Yep. Noticed T3s up $100 as well as Sako A7s

We are being screwed again. Just wait until the turds in charge manage to apply GST and an inspection fee too all your imports.

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Originally Posted by tetawa

Hasn't taken long for the sports retailers to start warning of price increases with the $ dropping, didn't see any price reductions when the $ was up in the 80's.

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Its pretty easy to work out, look at the US price divide it by 0.64 or 0.65, then chuck $20-60 USD on for freight. whack on GST at 15% + $40-50 for customs duties & then freight from the wholesaler & there you have it.

That's assuming the Kiwi Wholesaler or Retailer can cope with the generally much smaller margins the Guys in the States work on & that's got a lot to do with volume, 319 million VS 4.5 million people, not that hard to do the Math...

Yep we pay through the nose for some stuff for sure....

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

Its pretty easy to work out, look at the US price divide it by 0.64 or 0.65, then chuck $20-60 USD on for freight. whack on GST at 15% + $40-50 for customs duties & then freight from the wholesaler & there you have it.

That's assuming the Kiwi Wholesaler or Retailer can cope with the generally much smaller margins the Guys in the States work on & that's got a lot to do with volume, 319 million VS 4.5 million people, not that hard to do the Math...

Yep we pay through the nose for some stuff for sure....

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Yip somethings are over priced but thats the exception not the rule

Costs a lot to get stuff into the country to sell on.
Shitload cheaper to import personally.

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Originally Posted by 199p

Yip somethings are over priced but thats the exception not the rule

Costs a lot to get stuff into the country to sell on.
Shitload cheaper to import personally.

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Yep for sure.

A lot of stuff Guys just don't see or realise, Export permits, CC, brokers, Bio security, customs fees, etc etc, then the bloody dollar drops even more... :oh noes:

Yes but importing wholesale in bulk is always cheaper. Lots of small shops paying over bloated leases to greedy landlords doesn't help.

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

Yes but importing wholesale in bulk is always cheaper. Lots of small shops paying over bloated leases to greedy landlords doesn't help.

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No one NZ imports in bulk compared to Walmart etc in the States.

Economies of scale.

I recall the local Toyota Dealer telling me that one Toyota Franchise in California, Long beach IIRC, sold more Toyotas in a month than all of NZ, I thought , Yeah Rite....

I drove past a Dealership in Escondido last year it was bloody enormous, couldn't believe my eyes....

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Originally Posted by Kiwi Greg

Yep for sure.

A lot of stuff Guys just don't see or realise, Export permits, CC, brokers, Bio security, customs fees, etc etc, then the bloody dollar drops even more... :oh noes:

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Yeah mate
I got these tshirts i import
The last lot cost us about $3nz to purchase but by the time they got to the clothing rack they cost $16

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Originally Posted by 199p

Yeah mate
I got these tshirts i import
The last lot cost us about $3nz to purchase but by the time they got to the clothing rack they cost $16

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Yep so by the time your sold them for $25 you were a robbing bustard.... well you would be if you sold 150 perday for three months......

Yip excatly
They last for 3 months at $25
Then drop to $20 for 3 months then drop to $15 then $16 where we loose $6 per tshirt

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Originally Posted by 199p

Yip excatly
They last for 3 months at $25
Then drop to $20 for 3 months then drop to $15 then $16 where we loose $6 per tshirt

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Shit how do I get into Retail it sounds great, way better than manufacturing.......:XD:

Yeah mate thats the glamor side

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Originally Posted by 199p

Yeah mate thats the glamor side

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Must be so shit bro, how did the business ever buy that new truck[emoji13]

Tax man mate :)

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Originally Posted by tetawa

Hasn't taken long for the sports retailers to start warning of price increases with the $ dropping, didn't see any price reductions when the $ was up in the 80's.

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Oh the short memories we have......

I seem to remember in the late 90s through 2005 ish that the likes of Ruger 10/22s were around $699 while our dollar sat at around US 53c, our dollar climbs to nearer 80c or more in the last few years making these rifles drop to $399 new. A price that was unseen since the very early 90s when $399 was over a weeks wages. (57 hours at minimum wage of $7.00 ish at the time) Now they start to climb from $399 to $449 as our $ drops which is all of about 30 hours at minimum wage. If the dollar had not improved and all other things stayed equal that gun should cost us closer to $850.

In the early 90s a new ruger M77 was closer to $1300 then and I got a great deal on a near new second hand one at $900. Same new rifle today is a similar price at around the $1500 mark and wages have doubled. (meaning less hours worked needed to pay for it)

Mate who sold the same Ruger to me so he could buy a New Weatherby Vanguard paid $1400 for the Weatherby which even without inflation is actually more than todays price on the same rifle.

And those were WITHOUT GST as well!!!

Dearer my arse!!!

Also the internet didn't exist back in the early 90's so retailers could get away with raping the consumer more than they try to these days

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Originally Posted by Tussock

They cost the same, roughly. But if you go back over the manufacturing process over the same period, the shavings and savings would have been immense. Material use alone has been trimmed, both in the product and in the tooling and machinery in that time. QAQC is clearly down.


Those companies have a corporate shakedown to move priorities in that time. Meaning we are not talking about precisely the same product.

We are talking a product where they keep the same lipstick but they cram just a little more pig under it every year:)

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I beg to differ on that comment. Rugers were well made through the 80s, but the changes you speak of were before the 90s. I know this because the Ruger I bought in the early 90s was an absolute piece of crap then. At that point they had already contracted out the barrel manufacture and the consistency went south, fast. The design was, is very practical and effective if they had been well made. I hope they have got better, but as far as price goes, in the early 2000s they did get up to $799 for stainless synthetic and the "economy model" of wood blued was $649-$699. This was at the same time we imported the Toz 99 semi autos for the first time. The NZ dollar was at around 52c (nearly 2x kiwi dollars to the US, and 3x Kiwi dollars to the pound) We were undercutting the Ruger 10/22 prices with a better made rifle with 4 magazines (albeit nowhere near as well known). Then the NZ dollar went up to over 80c US and the result effect was the newer Rugers came tumbling down in price. Along with anything else purchased in US dollars with the exception of petroleum products as the price per barrel went through the roof enough to counter that.

Goo through some of the 90s hunting mags and check out the specials advertised. and do the same for mags printed in the 2003-2006 era. Our high dollar has been a bonus for importers for a decade, but has been crippling local products and exports at the same time.

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Originally Posted by small_caliber

I often get quite pi...ed at those that say the NZ retailer is ripping off the retail public, and it all comes from people who haven't got the balls to open a shop and prove that they can sell things with minimum mark up and still make a wage.....put your money where your mouth is, an old but valid saying.

When purchasing in NZ everyone is quite within their rights to shop around...........and I do but when I see something I want and I'm prepared to pay the price I don't bother. Would I bother spending 1hr of my time trying to find a cheaper price to save myself $20......in most cases no as I just lost $30 wasting that hour.

The minimum wage in the USA is $8.50 per hour, the same as it was over 7 years ago, and now the politicians in the USA are talking about upping the minimum wage to $15.00+ an hour.......what do you think that will do to the price of products and services from the USA.

I talked to several business owners in the USA and found that most of them make quite a bit less than the average wage in NZ, but then they can go out and buy a meal for $10 plus tip. Or buy a house with 3br, 3 bathrooms, 5 - 10 acres for around US$150k in some places less and in others more. Most leases for a 500sq m building are less than 50% of what it costs here in Dunedin.

Now the kicker about those that want US prices on the US product they buy they wouldn't work for US wages would they??, but they expect the NZ retailer to work for less than US wages, after the higher overheads and costs that are incurred running a business in NZ.

Perhaps it's time everyone in NZ took a pay cut, then we could see the cost of things drop

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i think we should all move to Auckland where the population is and make it bigger, that should fix it! How do you sell any retail in Dunedin? There's buggar all people there and they are either students or of Scottish decent! Did you take that into your calculations for a return on the investment before you opened the door?:thumbsup: we have nothing but old farts up here in the BOP fighting the moths is a full time job:oh noes:

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Originally Posted by small_caliber

Would I bother spending 1hr of my time trying to find a cheaper price to save myself $20......in most cases no as I just lost $30 wasting that hour.

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The trick is to do your "shopping around" online during work hours! (Shhhhh...)

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Originally Posted by small_caliber

I often get quite pi...ed at those that say the NZ retailer is ripping off the retail public, and it all comes from people who haven't got the balls to open a shop and prove that they can sell things with minimum mark up and still make a wage.....put your money where your mouth is, an old but valid saying.

When purchasing in NZ everyone is quite within their rights to shop around...........and I do but when I see something I want and I'm prepared to pay the price I don't bother. Would I bother spending 1hr of my time trying to find a cheaper price to save myself $20......in most cases no as I just lost $30 wasting that hour.

The minimum wage in the USA is $8.50 per hour, the same as it was over 7 years ago, and now the politicians in the USA are talking about upping the minimum wage to $15.00+ an hour.......what do you think that will do to the price of products and services from the USA.

I talked to several business owners in the USA and found that most of them make quite a bit less than the average wage in NZ, but then they can go out and buy a meal for $10 plus tip. Or buy a house with 3br, 3 bathrooms, 5 - 10 acres for around US$150k in some places less and in others more. Most leases for a 500sq m building are less than 50% of what it costs here in Dunedin.

Now the kicker about those that want US prices on the US product they buy they wouldn't work for US wages would they??, but they expect the NZ retailer to work for less than US wages, after the higher overheads and costs that are incurred running a business in NZ.

Perhaps it's time everyone in NZ took a pay cut, then we could see the cost of things drop

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Well some like @Digit seem to do it fine. It's the middleman also taking a big cut and as you pointed out the stupid high leases.

Digit is a one man band(who hires extra help when needed) who operates out of a glorified garage on his property, who imports and sellers direct.
And until very recently it was a side business and he had another full time job.

I'm not knocking him at all, in fact I think he needed to be commended for doing an amazing job.
But to compare him to a normal retail shop is not fair to either.
I think we are going to see more and more of his sort of business model, it's just harder for things other than guns.
We are also going to see more of those soulless vertically integrated big box stores that people love to hate.

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Originally Posted by res

Digit is a one man band(who hires extra help when needed) who operates out of a glorified garage on his property, who imports and sellers direct.
And until very recently it was a side business and he had another full time job.

I'm not knocking him at all, in fact I think he needed to be commended for doing an amazing job.
But to compare him to a normal retail shop is not fair to either.
I think we are going to see more and more of his sort of business model, it's just harder for things other than guns.
We are also going to see more of those soulless vertically integrated big box stores that people love to hate.

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Yes real competition is like that. Considering the size of New Zealand we probably don't need much more than smaller outfits for many products. Firearms and associated items are really a niche market.

I have brought in a number of things including firearms for the US and my very small scale imports including tax and fees still came in at roughly 50% the local retail cost. Yes Retailing from a shop is not easy (been there worked in that) but it is interesting that even for Auckland which is a small city we seem to have a large number of gun stores. Cant be too bad for them.

I have become jaded over the years from paying top dollar and getting poor service.

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Originally Posted by gimp

Also the internet didn't exist back in the early 90's so retailers could get away with raping the consumer more than they try to these days

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Isnt it the consumer raping the retailer now with the internet. People go online and buy from out of the country and get it as cheap as they can instead of buying local.

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Originally Posted by deer243

Isnt it the consumer raping the retailer now with the internet. People go online and buy from out of the country and get it as cheap as they can instead of buying local.

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Yes

Until 18 months ago I was the national sales manager for a wholesaler that supplied product to over 200 NZ retail stores.
I'm now actively retraining and building business that work against that old, practically obsolete model.

If you use a bricks and mortar store to work out want you want and need and then buy online as its cheeper then you really need to take a look at your ethics.

If you research what serves you best online and then buy biased on that then good on you

I bought a rifle new off a store for $800. Decided I didn't actually want it a month later, and took it back in to see if they'd buy it back. I figured since they'd already made a profit on me the first time, it was never fired, and was in as-new condition, they'd cut me a good deal.

They offered me $500, for a rifle they had *just* sold me for $800, because they needed to make profit on it again. Retailers need to work on their ethics as well.

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Originally Posted by small_caliber

Josh, a retailer is there to sell things at a profit, it is this profit that pays wages, lease, power, advertising and a return on money invested (ie stock) etc etc.
Now given that you purchased the rifle a month before do you think that retailer may have restocked?

Now once something is sold as "new" then bought back it can't be sold as "new" (can it?) now with that out of the way if you went into the same shop and were offered a used rifle for $700 and a new rifle for $800 which would you buy?

I'm basing this on "my" ethics as I couldn't sell something that has already been sold as new , repurchased a month latter and sell it again as new, and if I was told the story the buyer didn't use it and returned it unused because he didn't want it, I'd be asking myself "what's wrong with it that he returned it"

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Lets face it people, the above is 100 p cent spot on. In retailer you out to make a profit and the consumer has to choose wisely. Come on Josh, its one thing buying something then returning it next day because you chose wrong etc and getting a refund or a credit. A month later and you moaning about they offering you 500(who cares if it hasn't been fired). I would say they didn't have to offer you a thing, its not there fault you made a bad choice.
As soon as you bought it its now second hand and lost at least 20 pcent min as soon as you walk out the door. That was a great offer as they have to re sell it at a cheaper price. We gotta get real here, the retailer in business to make money, at the same time they look after there customers best they can and in this case I think they went beyond what many would have done,

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Originally Posted by deer243

Isnt it the consumer raping the retailer now with the internet. People go online and buy from out of the country and get it as cheap as they can instead of buying local.

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But when it breaks /failed then of off to the local retailer / distributor and expect them to make it all good "under warrenty". Dont Get me started on this.

If you buy overseas do it with your eyes open as you assume the risk.

If you're happy with that / to do that then go for it but if you want to have your cake and eat it too its gonna end in tears :)

Yeah, I totally get that and was probably a bit harsh in my post :P

Just getting my closet socialist on.

What is unethical is paying 3 times a much for the same Stuff made in China to line a wholesalers pocket who dose little and to pay lease to a property owner who does even less. Unfortunately at the current exchange rate our minim wage is only slightly higher than the US anyway $9USD so the reality is that the the retail worker is also getting done. Why? Because in New Zealand you can, wholesalers and retailers alike use our distance and separation from the rest of the world to their advantage. If it wasn't for internet, parallel importation and a few agitators (like digit) II would probably still be stuck in my old Swanndri with my old .303. Dam is't Swanndri made in China?!

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Originally Posted by Josh

I bought a rifle new off a store for $800. Decided I didn't actually want it a month later, and took it back in to see if they'd buy it back. I figured since they'd already made a profit on me the first time, it was never fired, and was in as-new condition, they'd cut me a good deal.

They offered me $500, for a rifle they had *just* sold me for $800, because they needed to make profit on it again. Retailers need to work on their ethics as well.

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As mentioned if you were offered a not quite new rifle (But maybe unfired) identical to a new one right beside it on the shelf when you first went in, would you pay the same $800 for the returned one or the new one?

How much "discount" would you need before you purchased the returned one. To be honest $500 is a deal they wont make much money on if any at all. The new one is $800 so I doubt they will be able to sell it for anything more than 25% off retail and more likely 35% or more before someone will pay for it. Add to this, the fact that a wholesaled one to replace the one they sold you will probably cost very close to what they paid you for it means they went beyond what I would call good service.

Secondly to the use of the word "Profit". If I buy a rifle / car / product for $1000 and sell it for $1500 I do not make $500 profit. That is mark up or margin. That mark up is income for the shop to pay for costs and expenses like rent, insurance, power, wages, GST. PROFIT is what little is left AFTER those have been paid.

For $1000 of goods, the first $150 disappears to the GST, that leaves $350 to pay for everything else.

A weeks expenses

Wages for one person @ $15.00 for 40 hours = $600
Rent in an average to cheap building $1000-$1500 per week
Power $125 per week (approx $500 per month give or take)

Even just these three bills mean sales have to exceed $9000 to $10,000 before anything else gets paid. And there are still many other bills to pay including the owner wages (or a return on investment)

Retail is much harder than what is being described.

@Josh Understand your annoyance but these guys are right, if you purchase something and return it you are subject to the Consumer Grantees Act and apart from faulty or unsuitable goods they have no obligation to take back your rifle. The shop could have simply said No we don't want it. If your rifle wouldn't feed ammo or shoot properly then you should have had every reason to get a refund.

Everyone should have a look at the Consumer Grantees Act.

My annoyance has been getting some NZ retailers/wholesalers to follow this when there is a problem.

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Originally Posted by timattalon

As mentioned if you were offered a not quite new rifle (But maybe unfired) identical to a new one right beside it on the shelf when you first went in, would you pay the same $800 for the returned one or the new one?

How much "discount" would you need before you purchased the returned one. To be honest $500 is a deal they wont make much money on if any at all. The new one is $800 so I doubt they will be able to sell it for anything more than 25% off retail and more likely 35% or more before someone will pay for it. Add to this, the fact that a wholesaled one to replace the one they sold you will probably cost very close to what they paid you for it means they went beyond what I would call good service.

Secondly to the use of the word "Profit". If I buy a rifle / car / product for $1000 and sell it for $1500 I do not make $500 profit. That is mark up or margin. That mark up is income for the shop to pay for costs and expenses like rent, insurance, power, wages, GST. PROFIT is what little is left AFTER those have been paid.

For $1000 of goods, the first $150 disappears to the GST, that leaves $350 to pay for everything else.

A weeks expenses

Wages for one person @ $15.00 for 40 hours = $600
Rent in an average to cheap building $1000-$1500 per week
Power $125 per week (approx $500 per month give or take)

Even just these three bills mean sales have to exceed $9000 to $10,000 before anything else gets paid. And there are still many other bills to pay including the owner wages (or a return on investment)

Retail is much harder than what is being described.

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add his ACC levies im guessing $1500-3000k +
insurance , depending on his stock levels could be anything from 5k on up
computer lease , software fee's, eftpos lease. $250 on up to whatever
and the poor guys probably got anything from $500k to a couple of mil of stock on the place that someone had to pay for
im surprised the poor guy makes a living at all.

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Originally Posted by 300CALMAN

@Josh Understand your annoyance but these guys are right, if you purchase something and return it you are subject to the Consumer Grantees Act and apart from faulty or unsuitable goods they have no obligation to take back your rifle. The shop could have simply said No we don't want it. If your rifle wouldn't feed ammo or shoot properly then you should have had every reason to get a refund.

Everyone should have a look at the Consumer Grantees Act.

My annoyance has been getting some NZ retailers/wholesalers to follow this when there is a problem.

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Absolutely I agree with this.

A quite while ago now I was in the same position with an un-mounted/perfectly as new scope.

I traded it for another one at a fair size loss as it was "second hand"

That didn't bother me much because such is life, after all it was my fault I changed my mind.

That was until I saw my "second hand" scope or the shelf at full price in its box .....

Character building stuff, especially being a regular client....

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Originally Posted by small_caliber

Greg I learnt a long time ago that if the price you are going to sell something for isn't what you want, then it's best to keep it.......sure enough you'll most likely need it in the future and if selling something because you need the $$$ the thing your selling will quite often make the buyer a good profit.

If I sell something it's because someone is willing to pay the price I want........otherwise I keep it........simple.

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Yep for sure, I'm the same, as I mentioned it was quite a while ago now, probably 15+ years :)

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Originally Posted by small_caliber

Did you make the retailer aware that you knew what he did?

If it was me I would've made a point of asking to look at the scope..........and while looking at it I would've hinted that I shouldn't have sold the one I had. Then offered him 10% more than he paid me for it......making sure I had the money to carry it out.

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I work on a swings & roundabouts principle.

I still deal with these guys now, they are a wholesaler, they don't have to supply me just as much as I don't have to buy or endorse their products.

Sometimes making an arse out of yourself may work short term but can be extremely costly long term especially in a small town, country, world...:)

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Originally Posted by mikee

But when it breaks /failed then of off to the local retailer / distributor and expect them to make it all good "under warrenty". Dont Get me started on this.

If you buy overseas do it with your eyes open as you assume the risk.

If you're happy with that / to do that then go for it but if you want to have your cake and eat it too its gonna end in tears :)

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If I had a dollar for every time I've seen this line trotted out......

It certainly hasn't been my experience with NZ Ammo and a Z5 Swarovski that I either bought second hand or on eBay, I told them I certainly didn't buy it new off them.
The ocular lens got scratched....I sent to NZ Ammo, they sent it to Austria, it came back with a new lens, and a record of work done.
Total cost $150.00, that's return freight to Europe, repairs, and GST payable here.

They hold spares for scopes made 25 yrs ago for cases such as this.

Like the Swarovski guy at the Sika show said, you pay for an investment, not a scope.

B

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Originally Posted by shift14

If I had a dollar for every time I've seen this line trotted out......

It certainly hasn't been my experience with NZ Ammo and a Z5 Swarovski that I either bought second hand or on eBay, I told them I certainly didn't buy it new off them.
The ocular lens got scratched....I sent to NZ Ammo, they sent it to Austria, it came back with a new lens, and a record of work done.
Total cost $150.00, that's return freight to Europe, repairs, and GST payable here.

They hold spares for scopes made 25 yrs ago for cases such as this.

Like the Swarovski guy at the Sika show said, you pay for an investment, not a scope.

B

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Well, its like many things that have a good life time warranty. You can bring it back to any shop that deals in that product, don't even have to buy it from them.(could of got it overseas). They send it back and it get fixed with next to no cost to you. Some products just have a good warranty and buying it overseas isn't a problem at all. Badlands packs must be one of the best around, you can buy a secondhand one with a rip or something wrong with it from a garage sale , get it dirt cheap then send it back and get a new one or fixed as good as new again. Just like my mate did a year or so ago. Bought it for 20 dollars from a garage sale, the pack was worst for wear, had a good rip in the bottom of it and couple of zips stuff. Sent it away, got a brand new one back!! (plus the pack was around 10 years old lol)

That's probably more to do with the company who made the product than the NZ importer.

The last importer I worked for had over thirty brands-one offered that level of backup. Others had "ok" arrangements in place for stuff not bought from us-eg we were just out our time but most just gave us a credit as a % of our imports to deal with warranty issues-and trust me,after you lose a few thousand $ a year fixing stuff you didn't sell you stop caring about doing stuff for the good of the brand