PRICE INCREASE

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Originally Posted by tetawa

Hasn't taken long for the sports retailers to start warning of price increases with the $ dropping, didn't see any price reductions when the $ was up in the 80's.

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Oh the short memories we have......

I seem to remember in the late 90s through 2005 ish that the likes of Ruger 10/22s were around $699 while our dollar sat at around US 53c, our dollar climbs to nearer 80c or more in the last few years making these rifles drop to $399 new. A price that was unseen since the very early 90s when $399 was over a weeks wages. (57 hours at minimum wage of $7.00 ish at the time) Now they start to climb from $399 to $449 as our $ drops which is all of about 30 hours at minimum wage. If the dollar had not improved and all other things stayed equal that gun should cost us closer to $850.

In the early 90s a new ruger M77 was closer to $1300 then and I got a great deal on a near new second hand one at $900. Same new rifle today is a similar price at around the $1500 mark and wages have doubled. (meaning less hours worked needed to pay for it)

Mate who sold the same Ruger to me so he could buy a New Weatherby Vanguard paid $1400 for the Weatherby which even without inflation is actually more than todays price on the same rifle.

And those were WITHOUT GST as well!!!

Dearer my arse!!!

Also the internet didn't exist back in the early 90's so retailers could get away with raping the consumer more than they try to these days

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Originally Posted by Tussock

They cost the same, roughly. But if you go back over the manufacturing process over the same period, the shavings and savings would have been immense. Material use alone has been trimmed, both in the product and in the tooling and machinery in that time. QAQC is clearly down.


Those companies have a corporate shakedown to move priorities in that time. Meaning we are not talking about precisely the same product.

We are talking a product where they keep the same lipstick but they cram just a little more pig under it every year:)

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I beg to differ on that comment. Rugers were well made through the 80s, but the changes you speak of were before the 90s. I know this because the Ruger I bought in the early 90s was an absolute piece of crap then. At that point they had already contracted out the barrel manufacture and the consistency went south, fast. The design was, is very practical and effective if they had been well made. I hope they have got better, but as far as price goes, in the early 2000s they did get up to $799 for stainless synthetic and the "economy model" of wood blued was $649-$699. This was at the same time we imported the Toz 99 semi autos for the first time. The NZ dollar was at around 52c (nearly 2x kiwi dollars to the US, and 3x Kiwi dollars to the pound) We were undercutting the Ruger 10/22 prices with a better made rifle with 4 magazines (albeit nowhere near as well known). Then the NZ dollar went up to over 80c US and the result effect was the newer Rugers came tumbling down in price. Along with anything else purchased in US dollars with the exception of petroleum products as the price per barrel went through the roof enough to counter that.

Goo through some of the 90s hunting mags and check out the specials advertised. and do the same for mags printed in the 2003-2006 era. Our high dollar has been a bonus for importers for a decade, but has been crippling local products and exports at the same time.

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Originally Posted by small_caliber

I often get quite pi...ed at those that say the NZ retailer is ripping off the retail public, and it all comes from people who haven't got the balls to open a shop and prove that they can sell things with minimum mark up and still make a wage.....put your money where your mouth is, an old but valid saying.

When purchasing in NZ everyone is quite within their rights to shop around...........and I do but when I see something I want and I'm prepared to pay the price I don't bother. Would I bother spending 1hr of my time trying to find a cheaper price to save myself $20......in most cases no as I just lost $30 wasting that hour.

The minimum wage in the USA is $8.50 per hour, the same as it was over 7 years ago, and now the politicians in the USA are talking about upping the minimum wage to $15.00+ an hour.......what do you think that will do to the price of products and services from the USA.

I talked to several business owners in the USA and found that most of them make quite a bit less than the average wage in NZ, but then they can go out and buy a meal for $10 plus tip. Or buy a house with 3br, 3 bathrooms, 5 - 10 acres for around US$150k in some places less and in others more. Most leases for a 500sq m building are less than 50% of what it costs here in Dunedin.

Now the kicker about those that want US prices on the US product they buy they wouldn't work for US wages would they??, but they expect the NZ retailer to work for less than US wages, after the higher overheads and costs that are incurred running a business in NZ.

Perhaps it's time everyone in NZ took a pay cut, then we could see the cost of things drop

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i think we should all move to Auckland where the population is and make it bigger, that should fix it! How do you sell any retail in Dunedin? There's buggar all people there and they are either students or of Scottish decent! Did you take that into your calculations for a return on the investment before you opened the door?:thumbsup: we have nothing but old farts up here in the BOP fighting the moths is a full time job:oh noes:

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Originally Posted by small_caliber

Would I bother spending 1hr of my time trying to find a cheaper price to save myself $20......in most cases no as I just lost $30 wasting that hour.

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The trick is to do your "shopping around" online during work hours! (Shhhhh...)

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Originally Posted by small_caliber

I often get quite pi...ed at those that say the NZ retailer is ripping off the retail public, and it all comes from people who haven't got the balls to open a shop and prove that they can sell things with minimum mark up and still make a wage.....put your money where your mouth is, an old but valid saying.

When purchasing in NZ everyone is quite within their rights to shop around...........and I do but when I see something I want and I'm prepared to pay the price I don't bother. Would I bother spending 1hr of my time trying to find a cheaper price to save myself $20......in most cases no as I just lost $30 wasting that hour.

The minimum wage in the USA is $8.50 per hour, the same as it was over 7 years ago, and now the politicians in the USA are talking about upping the minimum wage to $15.00+ an hour.......what do you think that will do to the price of products and services from the USA.

I talked to several business owners in the USA and found that most of them make quite a bit less than the average wage in NZ, but then they can go out and buy a meal for $10 plus tip. Or buy a house with 3br, 3 bathrooms, 5 - 10 acres for around US$150k in some places less and in others more. Most leases for a 500sq m building are less than 50% of what it costs here in Dunedin.

Now the kicker about those that want US prices on the US product they buy they wouldn't work for US wages would they??, but they expect the NZ retailer to work for less than US wages, after the higher overheads and costs that are incurred running a business in NZ.

Perhaps it's time everyone in NZ took a pay cut, then we could see the cost of things drop

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Well some like @Digit seem to do it fine. It's the middleman also taking a big cut and as you pointed out the stupid high leases.

Digit is a one man band(who hires extra help when needed) who operates out of a glorified garage on his property, who imports and sellers direct.
And until very recently it was a side business and he had another full time job.

I'm not knocking him at all, in fact I think he needed to be commended for doing an amazing job.
But to compare him to a normal retail shop is not fair to either.
I think we are going to see more and more of his sort of business model, it's just harder for things other than guns.
We are also going to see more of those soulless vertically integrated big box stores that people love to hate.

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Originally Posted by res

Digit is a one man band(who hires extra help when needed) who operates out of a glorified garage on his property, who imports and sellers direct.
And until very recently it was a side business and he had another full time job.

I'm not knocking him at all, in fact I think he needed to be commended for doing an amazing job.
But to compare him to a normal retail shop is not fair to either.
I think we are going to see more and more of his sort of business model, it's just harder for things other than guns.
We are also going to see more of those soulless vertically integrated big box stores that people love to hate.

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Yes real competition is like that. Considering the size of New Zealand we probably don't need much more than smaller outfits for many products. Firearms and associated items are really a niche market.

I have brought in a number of things including firearms for the US and my very small scale imports including tax and fees still came in at roughly 50% the local retail cost. Yes Retailing from a shop is not easy (been there worked in that) but it is interesting that even for Auckland which is a small city we seem to have a large number of gun stores. Cant be too bad for them.

I have become jaded over the years from paying top dollar and getting poor service.

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Originally Posted by gimp

Also the internet didn't exist back in the early 90's so retailers could get away with raping the consumer more than they try to these days

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Isnt it the consumer raping the retailer now with the internet. People go online and buy from out of the country and get it as cheap as they can instead of buying local.

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Originally Posted by deer243

Isnt it the consumer raping the retailer now with the internet. People go online and buy from out of the country and get it as cheap as they can instead of buying local.

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Yes

Until 18 months ago I was the national sales manager for a wholesaler that supplied product to over 200 NZ retail stores.
I'm now actively retraining and building business that work against that old, practically obsolete model.

If you use a bricks and mortar store to work out want you want and need and then buy online as its cheeper then you really need to take a look at your ethics.

If you research what serves you best online and then buy biased on that then good on you

I bought a rifle new off a store for $800. Decided I didn't actually want it a month later, and took it back in to see if they'd buy it back. I figured since they'd already made a profit on me the first time, it was never fired, and was in as-new condition, they'd cut me a good deal.

They offered me $500, for a rifle they had *just* sold me for $800, because they needed to make profit on it again. Retailers need to work on their ethics as well.

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Originally Posted by small_caliber

Josh, a retailer is there to sell things at a profit, it is this profit that pays wages, lease, power, advertising and a return on money invested (ie stock) etc etc.
Now given that you purchased the rifle a month before do you think that retailer may have restocked?

Now once something is sold as "new" then bought back it can't be sold as "new" (can it?) now with that out of the way if you went into the same shop and were offered a used rifle for $700 and a new rifle for $800 which would you buy?

I'm basing this on "my" ethics as I couldn't sell something that has already been sold as new , repurchased a month latter and sell it again as new, and if I was told the story the buyer didn't use it and returned it unused because he didn't want it, I'd be asking myself "what's wrong with it that he returned it"

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Lets face it people, the above is 100 p cent spot on. In retailer you out to make a profit and the consumer has to choose wisely. Come on Josh, its one thing buying something then returning it next day because you chose wrong etc and getting a refund or a credit. A month later and you moaning about they offering you 500(who cares if it hasn't been fired). I would say they didn't have to offer you a thing, its not there fault you made a bad choice.
As soon as you bought it its now second hand and lost at least 20 pcent min as soon as you walk out the door. That was a great offer as they have to re sell it at a cheaper price. We gotta get real here, the retailer in business to make money, at the same time they look after there customers best they can and in this case I think they went beyond what many would have done,

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Originally Posted by deer243

Isnt it the consumer raping the retailer now with the internet. People go online and buy from out of the country and get it as cheap as they can instead of buying local.

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But when it breaks /failed then of off to the local retailer / distributor and expect them to make it all good "under warrenty". Dont Get me started on this.

If you buy overseas do it with your eyes open as you assume the risk.

If you're happy with that / to do that then go for it but if you want to have your cake and eat it too its gonna end in tears :)

Yeah, I totally get that and was probably a bit harsh in my post :P

Just getting my closet socialist on.

What is unethical is paying 3 times a much for the same Stuff made in China to line a wholesalers pocket who dose little and to pay lease to a property owner who does even less. Unfortunately at the current exchange rate our minim wage is only slightly higher than the US anyway $9USD so the reality is that the the retail worker is also getting done. Why? Because in New Zealand you can, wholesalers and retailers alike use our distance and separation from the rest of the world to their advantage. If it wasn't for internet, parallel importation and a few agitators (like digit) II would probably still be stuck in my old Swanndri with my old .303. Dam is't Swanndri made in China?!